Real Women

[Shelly]

dove isn't trying to change the world, they are trying to sell soap.

their target is the everyday woman.

if they can relate to her and get her on their side?

it's money in the bank.

there are a uva lot more 'average' body people in this world than 'supermodel' people.

they are just targeting the main audience, and they can get away with it...because, as said, it's for soap.

try selling lingerie with those ads. see how many women jump to buy the lingerie so they can look like that. they won't. because lingerie is also about fantasy and who wants to fantasize about reality?

I disagree.

Women have been wanting the Dove type of ads forever and it's fallen on deaf ears. Outside of Lane Bryant (which you very rarely seen advertised in mainstream women's magazines), this is really a first.

Victoria's Secret lingerie runs very small and one of the biggest complaint about them is that their stuff doesn't fit an average woman. You are so very wrong about that, Zak. If the average woman could fit in their stuff (or any designer clothing) sales would go through the roof. Hence, vanity sizing. Yeah, your pants may say a smaller number, but deep down we know that it's really about two sizes bigger.

Why the need for so much fantasy?

[1Parker1]

As for your lingerie analogy.........you're talking about apples and oranges. You wouldn't like it if Victoria Secret started using those women in their ads instead of Tyra Banks? You say lingerie is selling a fantasy.......well so are most beauty product ads---which is what Dove Products are by the way--Beauty Products. They don't just sell soap, they sell facial cleansers, lotion, etc. Yet look at it's compe ors like Jergen's or Aveeno....their ads feature beautiful model women also. That isn't doing anything to help young girl's feel more confident and good about themselves either.

[Shelly]

that is some great stuff, and i give them props for it.

let me ask you this though, do you buy dove soap? if not, will you buy it now?

I've used Dove Soap forever because it's the least drying. I'm smart enough to know that I'm not going to look like someone in an ad because I use their product. Sadly, a lot of women fall for the hype.

However, as seen on tv products is a different story

[SpursWoman]

Why the need for so much fantasy?

Gotta have something to jack off too when you've pissed your wife/gf off one too many times for making her feel inadequate and she won't touch your ass with a ten foot pole.

[1Parker1]

that is some great stuff, and i give them props for it.

let me ask you this though, do you buy dove soap? if not, will you buy it now?

FYI, I use Dove showering gel , but your right, I don't use it just because of the ads. I use it because I just like the smell and how my skin feels afterwards.

I never said Dove is going to manage to change society's perceptions with these ads, but I do think it may help bring some women to question themselves and what they think of as beauty and it may lead to healthy debates and discussions on forums all over the world---such as this one, and the fact that people are discussing it, and recognizing it is a good start.

[spurjur]

I think Dove is doing both at the same time.

[SpursWoman]

I would use Dove if I weren't hopelessly addicted to Bath & Body Works....it smells really nice and it does make your skin soft.

[1Parker1]

I think Dove is doing both at the same time.

Exactly!

[bigzak25]

so if women have been wanting these types of ads, and now a company is giving it to them. now that company is in your good graces and your are much more likely to buy their product, no?

as for the need for fantasy? there is no need for it. but it sells product.

beer commercials don't show a guy sitting at home by himself watching the game drinking beer with crumbs all over his belly.

they show him at the bar, living it up, women all around, wanting to party.

it's all about the best way to sell product.

the dollar will always be the bottomline.

[1Parker1]

I would use Dove if I weren't hopelessly addicted to Bath & Body Works....it smells really nice and it does make your skin soft.

That's true, I use Bath and Body works Lotion and anti-bacterial gel...I love the variety of scents they have! Especially Freesia and Country Apple

[Shelly]

Gotta have something to jack off too when you've pissed your wife/gf off one too many times for making her feel inadequate and she won't touch your ass with a ten foot pole.

x a million


Honestly, I'm glad I don't have daughters that will have to deal with this crap.

[spurjur]

I have to admit that Dove is a very good soap. I don't buy it because of the ad though. Its a good product. However, businesses are in business to make money.

[SpursWoman]

Honestly, I'm glad I don't have daughters that will have to deal with this crap.

My daughter is already starting to have *issues* with herself.

[Shelly]

so if women have been wanting these types of ads, and now a company is giving it to them. now that company is in your good graces and your are much more likely to buy their product, no?

as for the need for fantasy? there is no need for it. but it sells product.

beer commercials don't show a guy sitting at home by himself watching the game drinking beer with crumbs all over his belly.

they show him at the bar, living it up, women all around, wanting to party.

it's all about the best way to sell product.

the dollar will always be the bottomline.

So, does that beer commercial make you buy that certain brand of beer?

[bigzak25]

, i use dove soap, have been for years already...don't tell nobody though.

[Shelly]

My daughter is already starting to have *issues* with herself.

[AlamoSpursFan]

My daughter is already starting to have *issues* with herself.

If your daughter is half the looker her mommy is, her *issues* are all in her head. [/my opinion]

[Shelly]

, i use dove soap, have been for years already...don't tell nobody though.

Zak's in touch with his feminine side! Since I do the shopping, my husband uses whatever shampoo/soap I buy. A lot of times the shampoo is for colored treated hair

[bigzak25]

So, does that beer commercial make you buy that certain brand of beer?

that's a good question. you may have a point there.

i used to drink bud most often. i don't know that it had much to do with the commercials though. if i recall, coorslight has some of the most scantily clad women in their ads, and i wouldn't be caught dead with that beer...

[spurschick]

Good grief. I can agree with you on the " es" threads (although I'd just say consider the source on them, and I'd really be fascinated by what you think it means when posters--both men and women--call Ray Allen a " " or a "pussy") .

It may seem like a double-standard, but what Spurs fans call Ray Allen is far different than how some men refer to women in general. To me, someone who refers to a woman as " " or "pussy" puts all women in a derogatory light - they're just interested in getting laid, which is absolutely fine. And you are right, there are only a few men in this forum who refer to women that way. I was looking at the big picture of threads that includes those that refer to women as such.

But you have really have gone overboard on the list. Are you going to give a hyperserious academic social analysis on the one about sharing umbrellas?

Sharing umbrellas? Sorry, not sure what you are referencing. Look, the topic has pretty much been hashed out (we're on six pages now?) and it seems clear that everyone is on the same page. The men in this discussion have made it clear that they appreciate all women. I just thought it funny that, while this politically correct discussion is going on, the same men are participating in threads about what hot chick they'd hit.

I think this said it best...

This argument can be looked at 2 ways. If you're a married woman or man....most generally you'll be comfortable with yourself and are prolly happy with not being a size 2 and accepting it. However, there's a lot more pressure on single woman, or younger woman in today's society to look more and more like the actresses on TV and ads---that's who the ads are ideally geared to.

[Shelly]

that's a good question. you may have a point there.

i used to drink bud most often. i don't know that it had much to do with the commercials though. if i recall, coorslight has some of the most scantily clad women in their ads, and i wouldn't be caught dead with that beer...

Like I said, those As Seen On TV ads are deadly!

And now I want the $500 Dyson for pet hair vacuum cleaner, since my dog has killed mine! I believe the hype, man!

[spurjur]

I believe that there are a lot of young teens going through this. Its sad. I have lots of nephews and nieces who are barely hitting that age where they have to wear this. Have to look like this and so on. I tell them that none of that matters. To live their lives for themselves. Not to worry about what anyone in high school and middle school says. When its all said and done once you graduate you never see these people. At least I didn't. I was concerned with being popular and I was in high school, however, now that I look back I see how dumb that was. I only talk to two or three people from high school now that I am a bit older.

Am I the only one who sees it this way?

[SpursWoman]

If your daughter is half the looker her mommy is, her *issues* are all in her head. [/my opinion]

Little girls notice very early that only thin = pretty, and only the prettiest girls get the most attention from pretty much everyone.

But yeah....it's just "fantasy" for grown men. No one else on the planet is affected by it.

[Shelly]

The bottom line is, I wanted an honest discussion without the name calling (probably because the usual suspects stayed out of this thread ) and I think it went well. It wasn't meant to be a 'man bashing' thread and I don't think it turned out that way.

But I still want to know if sheep spit or swallow.

[Shelly]

Little girls notice very early that only thin = pretty, and only the prettiest girls get the most attention from pretty much everyone.

But yeah....it's just "fantasy" for grown men. No one else on the planet is affected by it.

That's so sad. And it only gets worse as they get older.