Why doesn't atheism have a long standing successful civilization?

[xellos88330]

I love my history, but I have yet to find an ancient atheist civilization that is still successful by modern standards. Atheists are "smart" so one would think that they would be far more advanced than we whose progress was "hindered" by religion.

Ancient atheist civilization... I have only found one, and it is a pygmy tribe and it still uses wooden spears and . I don't think that is successful by modern standards. You have the pseudo atheist nations of modern times such as USSR (collapsed in 1991), China (instated freedom of religion in 1997) Sweden (Separated Church and State in 2000, but 66% of their population are members of the Church of Sweden) North Korea (Starving people in a tyrannical dictatorship) and that is all that I have found so far. I will let you know when I find more.

[xellos88330]

By the way, you are completely misinterpreting what I am saying with that diagram.

How much of the truth can be known at any given time? According to that diagram, there is a lot more truth that knowledge doesn't know about. If this were your thoughts and my thoughts on paper, you would on see the pink part. I would see both full intersecting circles regardless of the amount of knowledge I have. I am aware that there is truth that knowledge doesn't know about. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept. I am not asking you to believe in god as I do, I am simply wondering why you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that god does exist when we don't even know the full truth of the universe. Saying it is ridiculous is only an excuse for the narrow minded. Columbus sailing across the ocean was supposedly an absurd notion, and he helped open the door to an entirely new world. I am sorry but my position is most definitely not in the blue. It is in the pink because I believe things can exist outside of our knowledge base. You want some precious proof? Look and see how many new species were discovered on the planet in the past year.

[DMC]

Confidence in truth. CONFIDENCE IN TRUTH!!!

Let us examine that word confidence shall we?

con·fi·dence


/ˈkänfədəns/


noun

noun: confidence




the feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust.
"we had every confidence in the staff"

WOW!!! WHAT A SURPRISE!!! CONFIDENCE IS BELIEF!!!

Let us examine truth then shall we?

truth


/tro͞oTH/


noun

noun: truth

the quality or state of being true.
"he had to accept the truth of her accusation"

synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candor, honesty; More
accuracy, correctness, validity, factuality, authenticity
"he doubted the truth of her statement"
antonyms: dishonesty, falseness
•that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
noun: the truth

"tell me the truth"
synonyms: what actually happened, the case, so; More
the gospel (truth), the honest truth
"it's the truth, I swear"
•fact(s), reality, real life, actuality
"truth is stranger than fiction"
antonyms: lies, fiction
•a fact or belief that is accepted as true.
plural noun: truths

"the emergence of scientific truths"

synonyms: fact, verity, certainty, cer ude; More


Wow... such a humdinger huh?

confidence in the truth or existence of something


You cannot simply remove the context from a definition, this isn't church where you get to break down scripture and have it say what you wish by word ing it.

You have confidence that you understand the definition of the word "belief' but you display that you don't.

What is the truth of God? You have confidence that the existence of God is real. That doesn't mean it is. It only means you have confidence in "existence" as the truth, even if it's not. Confident people are wrong all the time. False beliefs abound. Are there such as false truths? No.

You need to come back home on this one, you're way the out there in Ken Ham land.

That said, you've ignored challenges to the OP, having given not a single example of a civilization that's failed due to atheistic beliefs.

I see no reason to continue the dialogue. You're either trolling or a ing re . Either way you're a re .

[DMC]

Ancient atheist civilization... I have only found one, and it is a pygmy tribe and it still uses wooden spears and . I don't think that is successful by modern standards. You have the pseudo atheist nations of modern times such as USSR (collapsed in 1991), China (instated freedom of religion in 1997) Sweden (Separated Church and State in 2000, but 66% of their population are members of the Church of Sweden) North Korea (Starving people in a tyrannical dictatorship) and that is all that I have found so far. I will let you know when I find more.

By the way, you are completely misinterpreting what I am saying with that diagram.

How much of the truth can be known at any given time? According to that diagram, there is a lot more truth that knowledge doesn't know about. If this were your thoughts and my thoughts on paper, you would on see the pink part. I would see both full intersecting circles regardless of the amount of knowledge I have. I am aware that there is truth that knowledge doesn't know about. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept. I am not asking you to believe in god as I do, I am simply wondering why you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that god does exist when we don't even know the full truth of the universe. Saying it is ridiculous is only an excuse for the narrow minded. Columbus sailing across the ocean was supposedly an absurd notion, and he helped open the door to an entirely new world. I am sorry but my position is most definitely not in the blue. It is in the pink because I believe things can exist outside of our knowledge base. You want some precious proof? Look and see how many new species were discovered on the planet in the past year.

Mouse/Cosmored level ^

[xellos88330]

confidence in the truth or existence of something


You cannot simply remove the context from a definition, this isn't church where you get to break down scripture and have it say what you wish by word ing it.

You have confidence that you understand the definition of the word "belief' but you display that you don't.

What is the truth of God? You have confidence that the existence of God is real. That doesn't mean it is. It only means you have confidence in "existence" as the truth, even if it's not. Confident people are wrong all the time. False beliefs abound. Are there such as false truths? No.

You need to come back home on this one, you're way the out there in Ken Ham land.

That said, you've ignored challenges to the OP, having given not a single example of a civilization that's failed due to atheistic beliefs.

I see no reason to continue the dialogue. You're either trolling or a ing re . Either way you're a re .

LMAO!!! Did you fail in english or something? Perhaps you need to learn the definition of the word "or" and it's uses. Many words in the English language have multiple meanings, you MUST pick and choose in your definition of the word. If there were a single word for every single definition, you wouldn't need the different definitions of the word you are using. Once again, you are proving that you cannot fully grasp the entirety of the situation even when throwing the dictionary at me because your mastery of the language and ability to comprehend how a dictionary should be used severely discredit you. Here you are telling me not to pick and choose the meaning of the word and yet you have done the same thing. Total hypocrisy. You posted definition #1 for belief and disregarded it. It says it is an opinion or a conviction right? It is ok, you go back and reread the definition. Also under the definition of truth, you will see that there is also a different context that the word "truth" will take when it becomes a subject in the form of "the truth". This becomes the new definition which I had bolded for you. You can go back and reread those as well.

According to you, I am re ed though. I guess that means you just went full re . You don't ever go full re .

[xellos88330]

Mouse/Cosmored level ^

Simple logic DMC. That is all it is. I will even explain what I mean using your pretty circles.

I believe that there are possibilities of existence that we have yet to discover. (Blue belief circle statement)
A new species in which we had no prior knowledge to, was discovered in the ocean. (Red truth circle)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible(Pink area)

Now for my statement.

I believe that the existence of god is possible. (Blue Circle belief statement)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible, as proved by the previous test. (Red circle statement)
The existence of god is possible since it resides outside of our knowledge base. (Pink Area statement)

Oh and by the way, you are welcome to refute my findings on atheistic civilization. You seem to not have posted any of your findings on the matter.

[xellos88330]

You're good too...

[DMC]

Ancient atheist civilization... I have only found one, and it is a pygmy tribe and it still uses wooden spears and . I don't think that is successful by modern standards. You have the pseudo atheist nations of modern times such as USSR (collapsed in 1991), China (instated freedom of religion in 1997) Sweden (Separated Church and State in 2000, but 66% of their population are members of the Church of Sweden) North Korea (Starving people in a tyrannical dictatorship) and that is all that I have found so far. I will let you know when I find more.

By the way, you are completely misinterpreting what I am saying with that diagram.

How much of the truth can be known at any given time? According to that diagram, there is a lot more truth that knowledge doesn't know about. If this were your thoughts and my thoughts on paper, you would on see the pink part. I would see both full intersecting circles regardless of the amount of knowledge I have. I am aware that there is truth that knowledge doesn't know about. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept. I am not asking you to believe in god as I do, I am simply wondering why you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that god does exist when we don't even know the full truth of the universe. Saying it is ridiculous is only an excuse for the narrow minded. Columbus sailing across the ocean was supposedly an absurd notion, and he helped open the door to an entirely new world. I am sorry but my position is most definitely not in the blue. It is in the pink because I believe things can exist outside of our knowledge base. You want some precious proof? Look and see how many new species were discovered on the planet in the past year.

lol either rabidly stupid or ty attempt to troll me

[Ignignokt]

So far in this thread, there's been one poster making a great case for distinguishing truth from faith. The other poster, blake, has just been fedora tipping and cuckposting with his dorito stained hands all through the day.

[Ignignokt]

Miserable fat

You know that could backfire, he could call you a miserable fat cuck.

[Blake]

So far in this thread, there's been one poster making a great case for distinguishing truth from faith. The other poster, blake, has just been fedora tipping and cuckposting with his dorito stained hands all through the day.

I bowed out after I realized xello is too stupid and lazy to understand logical fallacies.

But hey now there's one poster in this thread imagining out loud what I'm eating and wearing.

Good talk.

[Blake]

You know that could backfire, he could call you a miserable fat cuck.

then that would just make him a miserable fat lying

[xellos88330]

lol either rabidly stupid or ty attempt to troll me

I displayed, using your very own diagram, how you misinterpreted what I have been trying to explain to you. I used a TRUTH that something could in fact exist outside of our knowledge base to justify my belief that the existence of god is possible. Now it has been hours and you can only accuse me of trolling you. It is amazing what happens to you atheists when you are presented positive proof that you could potentially be wrong in your assessment. This is another reason why I am inclined to assume that atheism is based on belief. If it wasn't based on belief, you should be very open to the idea that you could be incorrect simply because you cannot possibly know everything with limited knowledge. However, if you claim that yes the possibility of god exists, you are no longer atheist and live within the realm of agnosticism. The truth hurts sometimes.

[xellos88330]

I bowed out after I realized xello is too stupid and lazy to understand logical fallacies.

But hey now there's one poster in this thread imagining out loud what I'm eating and wearing.

Good talk.

This is using DMC's circle diagram.

I believe that there are possibilities of existence that we have yet to discover. (Blue belief circle statement)
A new species in which we had no prior knowledge to, was discovered in the ocean. (Red truth circle)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible(Pink area)

Now for my statement.

I believe that the existence of god is possible. (Blue Circle BELIEF statement)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible, as proved by the previous test. (Red circle TRUTH statement)
The existence of god is possible since it resides outside of our knowledge base. (Pink Area KNOWLEDGE statement)

Bye bye atheism. o agnosticism.

[Blake]

This is using DMC's circle diagram.

I believe that there are possibilities of existence that we have yet to discover. (Blue belief circle statement)
A new species in which we had no prior knowledge to, was discovered in the ocean. (Red truth circle)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible(Pink area)

Now for my statement.

I believe that the existence of god is possible. (Blue Circle BELIEF statement)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible, as proved by the previous test. (Red circle TRUTH statement)
The existence of god is possible since it resides outside of our knowledge base. (Pink Area KNOWLEDGE statement)

Bye bye atheism. o agnosticism.

Neat. What does that have to do with your original premise

[xellos88330]

Neat. What does that have to do with your original premise

I have already stated it if you care to go back and read it. DMC quoted me a couple of times, and has yet to refute me on it. Perhaps you could?

[Blake]

I have already stated it if you care to go back and read it. DMC quoted me a couple of times, and has yet to refute me on it. Perhaps you could?

I don't really care to.

Is it possible for a civilization ingrained with atheism to succeed? Simple yes or no.

[xellos88330]

I don't really care to.

Is it possible for a civilization ingrained with atheism to succeed? Simple yes or no.

Of course it is possible. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked why there hasn't been one.

[DMC]

This is using DMC's circle diagram.

I believe that there are possibilities of existence that we have yet to discover. (Blue belief circle statement)
A new species in which we had no prior knowledge to, was discovered in the ocean. (Red truth circle)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible(Pink area)

Now for my statement.

I believe that the existence of god is possible. (Blue Circle BELIEF statement)
An existence outside our knowledge base is possible, as proved by the previous test. (Red circle TRUTH statement)
The existence of god is possible since it resides outside of our knowledge base. (Pink Area KNOWLEDGE statement)

Bye bye atheism. o agnosticism.

I'll respond to this as sincerely as I can, but no more.

1st, it's not my diagram.

Here's another:



Your statement of belief falls at the bottom, which would be unjustified belief. Saying you believe in the truth doesn't move your belief any closer to truth simply because "the truth" is undefined. What truth? Since we cannot simply have truth belief, we have to have a something to be true, a proposition. Your proposition is that of a possibility. This is where you go awry. In order to know possibilities, you have to know limitations and you don't. You hold the flawed position that things you don't understand have greater possibilities than things you do understand. In your mind that could be true, you can imagine them being anything at all. In reality they are what they are, or they simply aren't. So you don't have a belief in a possibility, that's having a belief in a "maybe". How can you form a belief in "maybe"? Aren't you just using "possibility" to say "I don't know"?

You began the thread as theist, now you're claiming to be agnostic. In one thread you've lost your belief in a god. Now you're uncertain, yet you have a belief, you think. How can uncertainty be a belief? You have a notion, don't confuse that with belief.

Up there in that diagram where "truth" sits alone, yes we will undoubtedly learn of things we don't currently know of, based simply on inductive reasoning; we always have. There's nothing inductively obvious about the existence of a supernatural being though. We have no litmus test for supernatural because it's never been encountered in a provable way. If it had, it would become natural instantly, so it's a self defeating concept.

I know you're going to pick a couple words and pretend you had an epiphany, but if you really are this confused about belief and truth, you should probably avoid these discussions, especially if you are too lazy to research things you've been given as reference material.

I couldn't care less what you believe, your OP is bunk since it makes an assertion and does nothing to support it. You made a sloppy assertion without even clarifying what you mean, then challenged others to disprove it, to show you an example of something you concocted in your mind. You made a strawman argument and then dared anyone to defeat it.

You cannot determine the veracity of a claim by how believing it affects government of a mul ude of people. What you can do is examine the claim itself and decide if it makes sense, does it hold up against rigorous testing? If so, then it should be believed. If not, then it shouldn't be believed. If you can chose to believe based on suggestion you're probably not mentally stable. Belief is compelled by evidence, not by suggestion, given the weight of the claim is equal to the evidence to support it.

[xellos88330]

So, moving goalposts now. Got it.

[xellos88330]

You are missing the point. I must argue as agnostic because if I argue as a theist, you would give zero credibility to the case simply based on my belief and the concepts within. Arguing from an agnostic point of view allows me to debate closer to your playing field with language you can better understand. I am flexible in my views, and can verify well understand why a person would be atheist or want to be. My problem is the position of non belief an atheist takes and their mistaken belief that they are superior to theists solely based upon what they do not believe.

[xellos88330]

Tell me DMC. Why do you like sports? You have the Spurs which seem to be your favorite team. You must believe in their capability to win to have 42k posts on a website dominant dedicated to the Spurs. The Spurs don't win every game, but does that mean you stop believing in them? My guess is no because your still being here shows that you have faith in them to keep winning even though they may not. So, why are you still here if you don't know know how well the Spurs will play in the future? Life is more than logic and reason. Perhaps it is as simple as you making a choice.

[Blake]

Of course it is possible.

then this thread is pointless. It's really not hard to figure out why ancient people thought that gods existed.

And it shouldn't be surprising that atheism is growing.

[Blake]

... your still being here shows that you have faith in them to keep winning even though they may not.

Terrible assumption

[DMC]

You are missing the point. I must argue as agnostic because if I argue as a theist, you would give zero credibility to the case simply based on my belief and the concepts within. Arguing from an agnostic point of view allows me to debate closer to your playing field with language you can better understand. I am flexible in my views, and can verify well understand why a person would be atheist or want to be. My problem is the position of non belief an atheist takes and their mistaken belief that they are superior to theists solely based upon what they do not believe.

Gather yourself and form a cogent thought. Decide how you want to present it. Read it to yourself, ask yourself if it makes sense. When you've done that I might continue with you. I'm being sincere, even if you're not.