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Wrong about Wright. He didn’t become GM until later. He was only assistant GM then. The Leonard trade was done by Pop and Buford. I don’t like Wright, but he can’t be blamed for that one.
There was a puff piece of him two years ago talking about how much he meshes with the Spurs "culture". Like Mills, they overlooked the flaws and chose somebody they like to hang out with instead of the most qualified for the job.
Wrong about Wright. He didn’t become GM until later. He was only assistant GM then. The Leonard trade was done by Pop and Buford. I don’t like Wright, but he can’t be blamed for that one.
Wright was hired because he’s - ahem - progressive. Check his background.
https://www.nba.com/spurs/finding-mr-wright
Notice the “diversity” crap etc.
Wright worked the phones during the trade process with Toronto:
Bobby Webster was on the phone with everybody that week — so many calls and texts, he can’t remember them all — but the phone call that started it all was to his old pal Brian Wright. Webster is the young general manager of the Raptors, working under Masai Ujiri. Wright is the young assistant GM of the San Antonio Spurs, working under R.J. Buford. The two are considered among the elite of upcoming executives in the NBA. And Webster and Wright have been friends since they first interned together with the Orlando Magic. If not for their relationship — their friendship, really — it’s entirely possible the Raptors would not have traded for Kawhi Leonard. Webster did so much of the work to make the complicated deal happen, and in the background did so much of the due diligence. The relationship between Webster and Wright probably made it happen. They could say things to each other that most trading partners can’t — or wouldn’t — say. They could be a little more honest, a touch more straightforward. They’d grown up together in the NBA. Webster will steer you on the road to the deal, just not into many specific areas.“You may have to talk to Bell (phone company) to figure out the records,” he said of when he spoke to Wright and how often.
I know. I read that at the time, and I remember it. It’s a puff piece. But did Wright, himself, have any decision-making power then? Nope.
Duncan made the front office over rated.
current roster vs ex players still in the league... i know who im takin
Nah, Duncan didn't scout euros before anyone else. That was a one time rent. Now a better franchise could also overpay for domestic talent, ll and get Duncan his btb, but being cheap did extend the window a bit. Before and after that though we're not better than the raptors, Utah, Miami etc.
The last time the FO made good tough decisions was Timmy, Manu , and TP ( after that it was pretty easy to build around the big 3 after getting them) and all of those players are retired now . I feel that does kind of put things in a good perspective.
Anybody got anything to add?
Appreciate the bump.
Good old fashioned racism on SpursTalk.
While I appreciate the list of mistakes (and even the harsh ones, like passing on Jokic, just like every team did), and they do provide a nice digest of things that could have gone better, much of it is nitpicking. And yes, I read this entire thread.
The OP was written before the 2018 season and meant to cover the 2014-15 season to the 2017-18 season.
In that 4 season stretch:
-2014-15: 55-27, lost in first round to Clippers. Mistakes in that series well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, largely coaching decisions (not FO)
-2015-16: 67-15, lost to OKC for a lot of reasons well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, mostly coaching decisions (not FO)
-2016-17: 61-21, probably on our way to a 6th chip until Zaza happens
-2017-18: 47-35, the lost season due to KL
There are lots of coaching decisions that in hindsight were not right. And there are a lot of FO moves that were questionable, though few were franchise-direction altering other than one, the KL trade. Was there a better deal to be had? I don't really know... but really, EVERYTHING stems back to Zaza's dirty ass foot.
Despite all the things in the OP (and subsequent posts) that could have been done better, we were still in position to be dominant into the future if not for Zaza's foot.
With that said, I did enjoy this thread, and would love a similar thread that starts AFTER the KL trade. What mistakes have been made since then that could have us in a better spot today? Certainly, trading LMA before it was too late and DDR sooner is something we'd probably all point to.
This is good stuff, aside from normal SpursTalk bridge trolls.
A lot of blame for the franchise's demise can be placed on Kawhi Leonard and his uncle. First of all, as great of a player as he was and maybe still is, he became a HUGE pain in the ass and diva. By most accounts he was NOT a leader, nor was he a good teammate. The Spurs tried to be flexible to the changing dynamic of his s om but not to the extent they needed to be. He was NO Tim Duncan. They really underestimated #2's willingness to walk away from the team as well as his uncle's influence. He pretty much tore the franchise up and sent it back to the dark ages.
From you, as usual, of course. But everyone knows you can’t help being such a racist.
“Demise.” Lol. Congratulations, you’re currently #1 in the big Drama Queen contest. But watch out, the compe ion around here is fierce.
Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Bryn Forbes for two years.
Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Marco Belinelli and make a hopeless effort to resuscitate his undead career.
Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Trey Lyles.
Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Dante Cunningham, Quincy Pondexter or DeMarre Carroll.
Etc.
The Kawhi Leonard you describe is only your personal version of Emmanuel Goldstein (if you’re familiar with who that is,) against whom you can direct your two-minute hate. But you are not screaming at anything real, when you do that.
All Kawhi ever really did was deprive the Spurs of his personal presence. Kawhi, himself, never did more than that. And as you choose to describe him, you should only be saying good riddance, with a careless shrug. You can’t say you want somebody like that around.
The Spurs were always going to decline after Tim, Tony and Manu were gone, because such players cannot be readily replaced. They are far too rare. How often will you see such players assemble on the same team, along with good teammates for them? Once in a lifetime, if you’re lucky. And that’s all.
So now the Spurs are rebuilding. It was inevitable. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s only the reality of the world with the passage of time. The old truism applies, nothing lasts forever.
It’ll be interesting to watch - I think - as the Spurs try to build toward greatness again. I’m curious to see what they’ll do.
I actually think DJ tearing his ACL combined with the Marcus Morris fiasco is what put the nail in the coffin. That team would've looked pretty good with a healthy DJ and Morris tbh.
Murray/White/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge
Mills/Walker/Keldon/Gay/Poeltl
plus Forbes and Belinelli
would've probably made the playoffs. DJ tearing his ACL basically set him back for 2 years so you would've gotten that Dejounte from last year 1 or 2 years earlier. Morris contract would've ran for 2 years so after that period the Spurs would probably still be where they are right now anyway with all the vets gone on the way to a rebuild, but they probably don't miss the playoffs until 2022.
the scouting of Demarre Carroll was definitely not good enough. He shot a bad percentage from 3 on the Nets the season before. I liked the signing on paper, but that percentage was a concern and I didn't watch any Nets games so the Spurs should've done a better job on that. The Morris signing was actually perfect in theory, he was the player I was saying the Spurs should get ever since the season ended. Him bailing on the deal wasn't the Spurs fault though. Signing Lyles instead was a mistake. Not trading Aldridge, Mills and Gay at the deadline was a mistake. Not playing the young guys until the bubble was also a bad idea.
You forgot who would have coached that team tbh
Forbes and Belinelli would have been racking up 25+ mins a game while White/Walker/Keldon would have been glorified towel boys.
Pretty sure a thread was started on such, but don't know where.
Oh I see, you're of the simple-minded variety. One that can't see the bigger picture of how all this works when building and drafting a team to support your super star. One that can't equate basketball "demise" with an NBA record 22 year streak of playoff appearances, five NBA les and Six Championship appearances falling to a franchise record playoff drought of at least 3 consecutive losing seasons and enduring relocation rumors.
Kawhi's departure essentially meant the end of attracting significant free agents to San Antonio as well as any real championship contention. To make matters worse, the previous successful formula of drafting good role players in the bottom half of the draft were over.
A couple of aging HOF'ers in Manu and Tony, along with heartless frauds like LaMarcus Aldridge and Demar Derozan were never going to compete for a le w/o Kawhi. They would have been good enough to compliment Kawhi but NEVER achieve anything significant without him.
So yeah, Kawhi Leonard, being the soft-ass Diva who wouldn't even try to return in the WCF with a sore ankle, holds a lot of the blame for the franchise's demise. He insinuated the medical staff was inept, the players and coaching staff didn't support him, blah blah blah. Held out with questionable injuries, forced a trade before his contract was over...etc..Besides being a , he was a terrible teammate and leader. Good ing Riddance (There you go, Jeff).
The Spurs aren't without blame. They're guilty of stalling the inevitable but not as much as Kawhi. Bad draft picks, Brynn Forbes, Marco, Lyles and the countless other sorry players brought in to plug the dam were never meant to make up for Leonard. It was just useless chair reshuffling on the anic.
No one plays forever but Kawhi was supposed to be a major part of transitioning from the big 3. He bailed on the team and on the rebuilding efforts.
Oh jesus, we were not beating the Warriors in 2017 even with a healthy Kawhi ffs. We have been a show with the FO and coaching, but Warriors were gong to win that series regardless. Kawhi injury sucked, but we also smashed OKC in game 1 only to get backdoor swept.
this thread will never get old. Add drafting Primo to the longass list
Confirmation biases impact how we gather information but also influence how we interpret and recall information. For example, people who support or oppose a particular issue will not only seek information to support it, but they will also interpret news stories in a way that upholds their existing ideas. They will also remember details in a way that reinforces these at udes.
Damn homie…….primo is gone but still living rent free�������� You may need to take some time away from the keyboard to deal with some trauma!
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