Any way the Spurs get in on the Anthony Davis conversation!?!

[Russ]

30 out of 30 teams would pick AD before Nephew if they got to select one. Not even close. He has more potential on both ends, tbh.

AD was a consensus #1 pick coming off a national championship (he was Final Four MVP).

Kawhi was the 15th pick who fell into the perfect situation.

You'd have to be a complete Spurs homer to think Kawhi was or is as good as Anthony Davis.

[timvp]

I don't know about "potential", all I know is Kawhi is clearly the better player so far. It doesn't get much better on both ends of the floor than a 50/40/90, 2xDPOY, tbh.

Nephew has never been an elite scorer and defender at the same time. AD is there and will stay there for a while.

There's a 1 year and 8 months difference between the two. Age plays virtually no part when comparing both players.

Younger is younger, tbh.

Also, I totally disagree bigmen age better than perimeter players.

Uh, I mean, that is an NBA fact, tbh.

Just look at all the latest examples: Dirk is getting token minutes out of respect, Gasol gets those same minutes but only when someone gets hurt, Duncan completely fell off a cliff from one season to the other.

Bad examples, tbh. You're talking about ~40-year-old bigmen.

And that's giving you examples of bigmen that relied more on their skills and IQ than athleticism, I didn't even get into the cases of Amare Stoudamire or Chris Bosh.

Stoudemire had a career-altering surgery (microfracture) that isn't even done anymore. Bosh had blood clots. Not good examples, tbh.

Meanwhile, guys like Ginobili and Wade remain decent contributors 'till the end. Heck, even Kobe dropped 60 on his last game. His was more a problem of not adapting to a lesser role than his body completely giving up on him (even though Kobe might be the most banged up perimeter player of all-time).

Kobe sucked his last handful of years. Pop bar-of-soaped Ginobili by playing him relatively tiny minutes the last handful of years. Wade hasn't been a net positive player in a handful of years and is an age where Duncan, Dirk and Gasol were all useful players.

Well, AD seems to get these short-term, "fluke" injuries all the damn time. If you take Kawhi's last season ending "injury", AD has missed more games due to injury than him, and he will probably keep on missing more games for the rest of their respective careers. AD just seems made of glass, while I get the feeling that once Kawhi gets that max contract he will stop missing so many games.

"Seems" and "feeling" means you are guessing, tbh. One player has had short-term injuries, the other was publicly diagnosed with a degenerative condition. Not comparable, tbh.

If AD commands better offers is solely because some teams are probably still kicking themselves for not trading for Kawhi when they had the chance (lol Lakers thinking their farm of ty players wasn't worth Kawhi), that's the only explanation. Because in terms of talent and situations, it's pretty much about the same.

Good point about teams probably realizing how dumb it was not to go after Nephew more. But I disagree wholeheartedly about them being comparable trade assets. Take away Nephew's shenanigans of the last 18 months and AD would still have the higher trade value. There was never a point where the Spurs wouldn't have traded Nephew for AD in a heartbeat.

[timvp]

AD was a consensus #1 pick coming off a national championship (he was Final Four MVP).

Kawhi was the 15th pick who fell into the perfect situation.

You'd have to be a complete Spurs homer to think Kawhi was or is as good as Anthony Davis.

Yeah if Anthony Davis was willing to stay in New Orleans, the Pelicans wouldn't trade him for two Kawhi Leonards.

[TDomination]

There was never a point where the Spurs wouldn't have traded Nephew for AD in a heartbeat.

I don't agree with this statement.

Pop loved him some Kawhi. I believe it was in the 2016-17 campaign when he publicly said that he believed Kawhi was the best player in the NBA while everyone had Curry, Lebron, Durant, Harden and i'm sure even AD as their #1. Said he was the only player that plays on both ends of the court.

Maybe before that year they would've traded Kawhi for AD. But not after. No way. I had never seen Pop openly and publicly praise a Spurs player outside of the big 3 the way he did with Kawhi. I truly believe he had a soft spot for him. And not like GHill. Pop had Kawhi as a legit MVP that year.

If you watch the Champions Revealed video, he mentions how loves his expressionless moments after a great play. Kawhi stays ho hum no changes where others are beating their chest and whatnot. Thats big for Pop. he loves that. he respects that.

My point is, Pop wanted Kawhi so bad to be the next Timmy. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way.

Before Timmy retired, Kawhi would've been traded. But afterwards, Kawhi was given the keys. It was about building around him at that point. But Nephew screwed Pop over.

[Russ]

Here are the career stats for Kawhi and AD:

AD 24.0 PPG 10.6 RPG 51.6%

Kawhi 17.3 PPG 6.3 RPG 49.6%

[timvp]

I don't agree with this statement.

Pop loved him some Kawhi. I believe it was in the 2016-17 campaign when he publicly said that he believed Kawhi was the best player in the NBA while everyone had Curry, Lebron, Durant, Harden and i'm sure even AD as their #1. Said he was the only player that plays on both ends of the court.

Maybe before that year they would've traded Kawhi for AD. But not after. No way. I had never seen Pop openly and publicly praise a Spurs player outside of the big 3 the way he did with Kawhi. I truly believe he had a soft spot for him. And not like GHill. Pop had Kawhi as a legit MVP that year.

If you watch the Champions Revealed video, he mentions how loves his expressionless moments after a great play. Kawhi stays ho hum no changes where others are beating their chest and whatnot. Thats big for Pop. he loves that. he respects that.

My point is, Pop wanted Kawhi so bad to be the next Timmy. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way.

Before Timmy retired, Kawhi would've been traded. But afterwards, Kawhi was given the keys. It was about building around him at that point. But Nephew screwed Pop over.

Quality post. But Pop has always hyped up his star players. He was favorably comparing Ginobili to Michael Jordan back in Manu's rookie season. And then there was the whole "centerpiece" fiasco when somehow the Spurs entire team revolved around Keith Bogans when the Spurs had three Hall of Famers in their prime, tbh.

Pop loved Kawhi, that's true, and Kawhi was/is a great player ... but AD is considered a Robinson or Duncan level championship foundational player. That's a step up from Kawhi, unquestionably.

I stand by the statement that if the Pelicans had ever offered Davis for Kawhi, the Spurs pull the trigger instantaneously.

[monty4329]

A Toronto trade has the potential to be the best for New Orleans, for multiple reasons.

1. New Orleans gets Siakam--a legit player-- plus some combo of Valanciunus, Anunoby, Van Fleet, and picks.

2. If they're mad at the Lakers for orchestrating this behind the scenes, pairing Leonard and Davis gives both of those guys a good reason to think about staying put, and never joining the Lakers.

Will never happen. Toronto could even win it all and that would be funny.

[monty4329]

30 out of 30 teams would pick AD before Nephew if they got to select one. Not even close. He has more potential on both ends, tbh.

AD is younger and as a bigman he should age a lot better.

Injury concerns aren't that close either. AD has had short-term, fluke injuries. Nephew was diagnosed with a degenerative condition.

AD wants out of a place where everyone has wanted out and has never sniffed a championship. Nephew wanted out of a place regarded as a top-flight franchise with a championship history and a possible championship future.

AD would even grade out higher if you're grading his off the court intangibles, whereas Nephew is/was more of a mystery.

AD will rightfully command much, much better offers.

Flawless

[spurraider21]

guys we got this on lockdown because of the Klutch Sports connection.

Rich Paul's 2 most prominent clients are Anthony Davis and DeJounte Murray.

[lmbebo]

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/n...319wgdhwx12sku

[monty4329]

guys we got this on lockdown because of the Klutch Sports connection.

Rich Paul's 2 most prominent clients are Anthony Davis and DeJounte Murray.

Murray too to LA?

[lmbebo]

Murray too to LA?

in 5 years apparently the way things are going.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The only possible way would be giving players like:

White, Murray, Walker and possibly Bertans. With a draft pick or 2.

all of those plus Derozan, and Aldridge if they want him


Anthony Davis is another Duncan on the right team

[exstatic]

all of those plus Derozan, and Aldridge if they want him


Anthony Davis is another Duncan on the right team

Duncan took less talent than AD has around him now to the le in 2003....

[HarlemHeat37]

Why do white fans hate seeing Black players in power? Nothing angers them more

Davis stayed with the Pelicans for 7 seasons, he gave them plenty of time to make moves to convince him to stay..he's supposed to allow Dell Demps to dictate his legacy?

You want him to stay with a garbage team run by a horrible front office his entire career, but you'll still call him a loser when he retires without a ring..

[Millennial_Messiah]

Duncan took less talent than AD has around him now to the le in 2003....

Crazy thing about that team is, if you consider all the players on our roster that year as if they were all in their prime, it's one of the greatest and deepest rosters in NBA history.


2003 Duncan +
2007 Parker +
2005 Ginobili +
2005 Bowen +
2007 S. Jackson (GSW) +
1995 Admiral +
1990s Steve Smith, Danny Ferry, Kevin Willis, Steve Kerr
2003 Malik Rose & Speedy Claxton round out the roster


The problem was that team is that literally almost everyone except Duncan was NOT in their prime. Every single player besides TD was either a couple years too young or at least a half decade too old. Still my favorite championship of all time because we were underdogs not just that year (we started a pedestrian 19-13 in 02-03)... but really since 2000. 2005 and 2014 are tied for second place.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Why do white fans hate seeing Black players in power? Nothing angers them more

Davis stayed with the Pelicans for 7 seasons, he gave them plenty of time to make moves to convince him to stay..he's supposed to allow Dell Demps to dictate his legacy?

You want him to stay with a garbage team run by a horrible front office his entire career, but you'll still call him a loser when he retires without a ring..

Malone's last year in LA not withstanding, I respect guys like Malone, Reggie Miller, Dan Marino that busted their ass with one team for 15-20 years only to come up just short of the big prize, over a souless sociopathic mercenary like Le or Durbeta...

[DAF86]

Nephew has never been an elite scorer and defender at the same time. AD is there and will stay there for a while.

According to what criteria? What would be considered "elite", where do we draw the line? In 2016 Kawhi averaged 21 ppg on 50 FG%, 44 3pt%, and 89 FT% while winning DPOY. You don't consider that to be elite at both ends?

Uh, I mean, that is an NBA fact, tbh.

Could be, I have never searched for facts regarding this. Is there one out there that proves that bigmen age better than perimeter players? If so, is that taking into consideration today's style of play, where not only you usually play only one big alongside three or even four 6'6" or over guys, but also that one big has to be mobile enough to don't get eaten alive?

"Seems" and "feeling" means you are guessing, tbh. One player has had short-term injuries, the other was publicly diagnosed with a degenerative condition. Not comparable, tbh.

Is it official that Kawhi has a degenerative condition?

Good point about teams probably realizing how dumb it was not to go after Nephew more. But I disagree wholeheartedly about them being comparable trade assets. Take away Nephew's shenanigans of the last 18 months and AD would still have the higher trade value. There was never a point where the Spurs wouldn't have traded Nephew for AD in a heartbeat.

Really? You think the Spurs who, admittedly, have had hard times trading away role players for their "culture" and "corporate knoweledge" would trade away who they, again admittedly, felt was the best player in the World? (and I believed Pop when he said that, because back when he said it many of us thought that that might have been the case).

Sorry, but I can't agree with that one bit. At no point of their respective careers was Davis a better player than Kawhi, and you can't talk about "potential" with guys that have been Superstars of the league for more than a minute now. They are who they are and the chances of either of them showing some kind of substantial improvement are very slim.

Kawhi is a beast with the best winning% of all-time while Davis has one playoffs series win in 7 years of career. Sure, a lot of that is due to cir stances but you can't underrate the impact (or lack of it) each player had on their respective teams.

[TD 21]

- Davis is definitely better than Leonard right now and save for a blip 2 seasons ago, always has been. Until proven otherwise, only playoff James is definitively better than him.

- Arguing that guards/wings age better than bigs (namely skilled, long ones, like the one in question) is asinine, especially coming from a Spurs fan.

- I don't doubt the Spurs would have picked Davis over Leonard in a vacuum, but had what happened not, would they have actually offered him for him? Doesn't seem their style.

- Media bias overload. From trying to will him to the Lakers, to claiming they should have offered the Spurs little, but the Pelicans lots (cir stances are somewhat different, but still), to claiming their latest darlings, the Raptors, should be serious threats when their best asset is an (elite) complimentary player.

- Some of the fan anger stems from racism (probably mostly subconsciously), but more so it's the way some of the players have gone about it, the sheer frequency and the groupthink, in terms of the same few teams/markets.

[DAF86]

- Davis is definitely better than Leonard right now and save for a blip 2 seasons ago, always has been. Until proven otherwise, only playoff James is definitively better than him.

Kawhi will end on the top 5 of MVP voting this season( and the only reason he won't finish higher or even win it all is because of all the rest thing), while Davis won't even be in the picture, as usual.

Arguing that guards/wings age better than bigs (namely skilled, long ones, like the one in question) is asinine, especially coming from a Spurs fan.

On today's NBA? I think they do. However, like I said, I'm not all in on this take, I can change my stance if sensible data is shown proving otherwise.

I don't doubt the Spurs would have picked Davis over Leonard in a vacuum, but had what happened not, would they have actually offered him for him? Doesn't seem their style.

Since 2016 up untill this last season fiasco, there's absolutely no way the Spurs would have traded Kawhi for AD straight up at any point. One was arguably the best player in the World, while the other was an injury plagued bigmen that couldn't lift his team above mediocrity.

[TD 21]

Kawhi will end on the top 5 of MVP voting this season( and the only reason he won't finish higher or even win it all is because of all the rest thing), while Davis won't even be in the picture, as usual.



On today's NBA? I think they do. However, like I said, I'm not all in on this take, I can change my stance if sensible data is shown proving otherwise.



Since 2016 up untill this last season fiasco, there's absolutely no way the Spurs would have traded Kawhi for AD straight up at any point. One was arguably the best player in the World, while the other was an injury plagued bigmen that couldn't lift his team above mediocrity.

As usual, your anti-big bias is clouding your judgement.

Yeah because he's on a much better team. As usual, Davis has outplayed him though, as evidenced by virtually every catch all metric.

History and logic tells us otherwise. Even recent history. Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Gasol, were all effective into their late 30s, while their perimeter counterparts fell off a cliff.

Leonard was never arguably the best player in the world. He had a brief period around 2 years ago where he was something like co-2nd. They've both been injury prone and Davis has surpassed Leonard in terms of play making.

[DAF86]

As usual, your anti-big bias is clouding your judgement.

I don't have any anti-big bias, tbh. I just realize that in today's NBA they aren't as valuable as they used to be. Case in point: Anthony Davis. A freak of nature like him would be able to do better than one playoffs series win in 7 years in "yesterday's NBA", no matter how ty the cast around him is.

Yeah because he's on a much better team. As usual, Davis has outplayed him though, as evidenced by virtually every catch all metric.

"As usual" for their careers those same metrics you talk about favour Kawhi.

History and logic tells us otherwise. Even recent history. Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Gasol, were all effective into their late 30s, while their perimeter counterparts fell off a cliff.

History isn't long enough yet to compare longevity of bigmen vs perimeter players in today's NBA.

Leonard was never arguably the best player in the world. He had a brief period around 2 years ago where he was something like co-2nd. They've both been injury prone and Davis has surpassed Leonard in terms of play making.

In 2017 Leonard was definitely in the best player in the World discussion, that's why Pop actually said he was.

[lmbebo]

AD >>>>> Kawhi value-wise so wouldn't be much to compare, tbh.

Also ..

is it scarring or "Degeneration" because the 2 things are not synonymous. Degenerative is a long standing issue from overuse, i.e. wearing out your cartiladge from day to day use, body can't replace it and the body reacts. Changes are degenerative.

Scarring is the result of a single event causing a problem and body's response to the trauma is fibrosis (e.g. scarring).

His history lends towards scarring from trauma (the miami game they pointed out). A degenerative muscle problem is that Kwahi actually has something like ALS/ Lou Gherig's disease.... Big difference.

[skin27]

I don't have any anti-big bias, tbh. I just realize that in today's NBA they aren't as valuable as they used to be. Case in point: Anthony Davis. A freak of nature like him would be able to do better than one playoffs series win in 7 years in "yesterday's NBA", no matter how ty the cast around him is.



"As usual" for their careers those same metrics you talk about favour Kawhi.



History isn't long enough yet to compare longevity of bigmen vs perimeter players in today's NBA.



In 2017 Leonard was definitely in the best player in the World discussion, that's why Pop actually said he was.

Anyone who thinks leonard was in the best player in the world conversation when he’s not better than westbrook and harden that year

[TD 21]

I don't have any anti-big bias, tbh. I just realize that in today's NBA they aren't as valuable as they used to be. Case in point: Anthony Davis. A freak of nature like him would be able to do better than one playoffs series win in 7 years in "yesterday's NBA", no matter how ty the cast around him is.



"As usual" for their careers those same metrics you talk about favour Kawhi.



History isn't long enough yet to compare longevity of bigmen vs perimeter players in today's NBA.



In 2017 Leonard was definitely in the best player in the World discussion, that's why Pop actually said he was.

You do. The Pelicans have probably had the worst injury luck in his time in the league, including him. They've also been poorly managed. '03 Duncan was an exception to the rule, but there's generally only so much one player can do. Even James didn't win a championship until he was surrounded by multiple other All-Stars and he wouldn't have made the Finals most years if he were in the West.

They don't and even if they did, Leonard has never touched the season Davis is having, is no more a natural offensive hub nor has a strong enough playoff pedigree as one to take precedence.

It doesn't matter. The less reliant you are on tools that are bound to age poorly, the better you're likely to age. James, Durant, Leonard, etc. are different than Bryant, Wade, Ginobili, etc. though because they're all essentially half bigs.

No, Pop said it because he was biased and being a prisoner of the moment. There hasn't been a legit discussion in 11 years.