The Official Venting Thread

[polandprzem]

Why is David Stern spending all of his time worrying about all this little bull like the players dress code and not allowing players to wear stockings????

Man, what this chode really needs to do is get some younger, non-bull refs.


Bavetta is an old piece of that deserves to die. What a .

Bravo Alvarez6 4 posts in a row.

I can laugh my ass off.

Thanks

[dav4463]

I sent Mark Cuban an email after game three and he actually replied. I asked him why he doesn't talk about the poor officiating on his blog when the calls all go his way. He sent back... I guess you didn't worry about it in game one when all the calls went the Spurs way.... I don't know what game he was watching! The email proved that he doesn't care about fair officiating like he says he does. All he wants is for his team to get all the calls. He's just a sorry-ass fan with a lot of money.

[coachmac87]

refs do suck dont get me wrong...but the spurs need to make an adjustment our the season will be over in 6... nazr and manu need to be back in the lineup....pop stresses that the reason we are not up in this series is cause the lack of defense..although he puts barry and finley in the starting lineup??? not the best move for defense....nazr is 7 feet tall or even rasho(gotta go with nazr) but the spurs have to get back at what got them there and the best fracnchise record...and it wasnt by playing small they are playin in dallas hands...and dallas is licking their chops once bruce bowen is the our next power foward...nazr can rebound the ball(one of the best per 48 min check the stats) decent defender and has a improving post game....and somebody has to guard him...manu is on a tear the past two games and he wants his job back as a starter...it may not seem as of now that nazr would be such a factor....but nobody thought the same of devin harris either and ur lying to urself if u did...so make the mavs shoot the ball more than they have and stop letting them drive to the basket making duncan worry about foul trouble its makin me pissed...not gonna win the series playing dallas basketball...what would pop do if david robinson was still on the court??(not in his prime) would he be benched??? uve got to get by the mismatch with duncan on howard it isnt that bad if u think about it...howard isnt a great shooter and duncan needs to give a lil room to recover...but if these changes are made the spurs will be better off than crossing their fingers that dalls misses layups and easy shots..casue well they are not

[ALVAREZ6]

I sent Mark Cuban an email after game three and he actually replied. I asked him why he doesn't talk about the poor officiating on his blog when the calls all go his way. He sent back... I guess you didn't worry about it in game one when all the calls went the Spurs way.... I don't know what game he was watching! The email proved that he doesn't care about fair officiating like he says he does. All he wants is for his team to get all the calls. He's just a sorry-ass fan with a lot of money.

What's his e-mail???



This is gonna receive .

[kris]

I sent Mark Cuban an email after game three and he actually replied. I asked him why he doesn't talk about the poor officiating on his blog when the calls all go his way. He sent back... I guess you didn't worry about it in game one when all the calls went the Spurs way.... I don't know what game he was watching! The email proved that he doesn't care about fair officiating like he says he does. All he wants is for his team to get all the calls. He's just a sorry-ass fan with a lot of money.

Yes, I think you can save your Ambassador of Basketball trophy for someone else.

[EVAY]

I wholeheartedly agree with Timvp's post. I know he and I both search for any other reason besides the refs that caused the Spurs to lose, but fact of the matter is the refs were directly responsible for the Spurs losing at LEAST one of those games, most likely both.

The referees were absolutely egregious in Games 3 and 4. If it was the other way around, and the Spurs were the benefactor, I would hate winning like that. You obviously take the win, but I'd rather my team win on their own accord rather than the refs gift wrapped the game.

I've held off writing the following, but I slept on Game 3 and it's been a few nights since Game 2 so I feel like I've given it proper respective thought.

I know it's been mentioned that Cuban has had his hand influencing in the refs through complaining, and I believe that to be true. However, I also believe the NBA either wants an extended series, wants the Mavericks to win, and/or wants the Spurs out.

I know that's pretty far out there, but I believe it. I believe it because I see it with my eyes. I intently watched both of the games and the replays and I watch the referees going out of their way to give super favorable calls to the Mavs and on the flip side of the coin, ignore making the same call when the same situation presents itself for the Spurs.

The Spurs are trying to fight through the calls and just play basketball, but it's impossible when they don't balance out. It has raised the Spurs game to even higher levels, but no team can beat the Mavs and the refs at the same time.

This is not to take away from how the Mavericks are playing. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, and Devin Harris have all been outstanding offensively. Diop has done a decent job on Duncan.

My point is not against the Mavs because the Mavs are playing great playoff basketball and are doing what any team in their position would do - take the calls and be on the offensive. My point is that the NBA and control freak David Stern have cost the Spurs two possible playoff wins and are sullying the game's good name by tampering with the calls.

These games would have been fantastic without all the bull calls. There is no need to adjust them unless you have an agenda.

Here is what I believe the referees are doing:

During the course of the game, they call it fairly regularly. Calls go both ways, balance out etc. Maybe a bad call for the Spurs, a bad call for the Mavs. However, they throw in a kink into the balance out system. Say for example in Game 1, they are unusually non-chalant about handing out Duncan fouls or in Game 2, how all of a sudden they were searching for anything that might be considered a travel violation. Let me be the first to admit that the Spurs travel a lot. Still, 1) you can't all of a sudden decide to correct every extra step the Spurs have been taking all season in Game 4 of the Conference Semifinals, when they and other teams have been guilty of traveling violations all season and 2) you can't be so intent on finding travels that you see them even when they are not there.

Ok, so you take care of the first three quarters or so and now the game is in the balance. Now, the referees are looking to ensure the Mavericks have every chance to stay close or take the lead without being too obvious. So they throw the Spurs a bone or two. Maybe the Spurs shouldn't even have got the call, but this way after the game people can say it went both ways.

What has been accomplished is via the referees, the Mavericks have been given the best possible chance to win the game. Obviously, you can't just post ghost points on the scoreboard and sound the buzzer to end the game so the Spurs will have a chance as long as they are on the floor, but what has happened is it has become very improbable the Spurs will win and very improbable the Mavs will lose.

Unfortunately for the NBA and David Stern, the referees are doing a horrible job selling the calls and picking the right time to call them. When Dirk was tripped out of bounds, the referee had to stare at Dirk on the floor for 3 seconds after the play to call a foul. Why? When Tony got tripped and the ball fell out of bounds, the referee looked at the players inexplicably, paused, and then pointed to Mavs ball.

When did the legendary tough, physical NBA playoff basketball translate into a hand check foul with 8 seconds in the game?

How did it seem logical for one referee to anticipate a call on Manu for double dribbling, blowing his whistle amidst the Spurs obviously retaining the ball, and then the referees huddle together and call jump ball?

Everything balances out right on both sides right? Then how come the time the referees blow a call in the Spurs favor Tony's shot hitting the rim, they give it right back to the Mavs and call an offensive foul on Duncan one second after the inbounds?

What's scary is how little they used to justify that offensive foul. David Stern's version of the script didn't have them being that obvious with the foul or the make-up call.

If David Stern was really in search of the best referees and ensuring only the best for the integrity of his league, he would most assuredly get rid of Bavetta. Why is this guy still reffing the most important games in the playoffs? He is an absolutely horrid referee.

Any fan of any team can account for how many calls he misses/makes up. The guy should be retired. He's 66. He is eligible for full Social Security benefits. It is a proven fact that his physical tools and skills to referee have naturally declined due to age. It doesn't matter how cute he thinks he is or how alive he feels when refereeing a big game. He shouldn't be doing it according to Stern's pursuit of what is best for the game. You could even ask one Jerry Stackhouse if he agrees. But, alas he is a puppet for Stern. Bavetta probably sold out a long time ago for a little grease on his palm. Perhaps a guarantee of longevity or more lucrative package for senior referees in exchange for a few well placed calls. Probably didn't start out big, but it ended as a nice way for the control freak to have a say on and off the court.

Concluding, I want to add that I didn't even think the Spurs would make it to the NBA Finals before the playoffs. I didn't think they deserved to after the poor showing they made during the regular season. I don't know if they do right now. What I do know is they deserve better than having to play in conditioned games where they have to make up 6 more points than they normally would because the referees are jobbing them.

I, as a fan of the game and the Spurs, feel robbed when I watch a team's field goals get matched point for point with free throws in the last 8 minutes of the fourth quarter. If the Spurs lost because they didn't match the Mavericks, that's fine and after the series I'll start thinking how the Spurs need to make some offseason moves. But it's unfair to have to think of what might have been because of the referees pulling the game to the Mavs.

The most disgusting thing about it is it's plain of day. If you're a Maverick fan and you want to say the Spurs fans are being babies or hypocritical or whatever, go ahead, but in the back of your mind you know the Mavericks had a lot of help. If nothing else, look to Popovich's quotes. Here's a man who has never even acknowledged the referees existance and now had to admit there are somethings you can't control. What do you think those things are?

In the basketball world, complaining about the referees is a sin. Yeah, we are complained about the calls, but to you Mavs fans that are trying to play the high road card and parroting "but Josh Howard's block was clean," - we'll see you in .

You said this as well as it has been said. Well done. Your point about the league not wanting the spurs to go all the way is one that makes marketing sense, and the fact that pro basketball is a business argues that as well. The league markets personalities, not basketball. Therefore, real basketball fans who actually LIKE watching defensive games, are too few to count in tv ratings games. Thus, the pasting that the finals got from a ratings standpoint last year is someathing that Stern wants to avoid. I think he could avoid it by TEACHING the tv audience the value of well played defense, but in a celebrity-oriented society, that seems like it would take too much time or effort.

Before folks start moaning about " conspiracy theorists" being nuts, just let me point out that I don't that the league is malintended. It's just business. You want to have a marketable product, and the spurs are not that marketable by today's celebrity standards. As a fan, I love them, but I'm not a teeny bopper lusting over the player's bods either. I just love the game. We have all seen refs "manage" games during the regular season, where a likely blowout by one team is cushioned by the refs to be closer by judicious use of foul calls on the team that is way ahead.

[SA210]

What's his e-mail???



This is gonna receive .

Yes, I want his email too.
How does he feel that he can't beat the Spurs straight up without the zebras?

[ALVAREZ6]

The Mav's new home jerseys for the 06-07 season are gonna be white and black striped. Bank on it.

[big3bigD]

The constant whinning and crying about officiating from the entire Spurs camp (except POP, he has been the only one to give the Mavs the credit that they deserve) is completely ridiculous. There have been several stretches during these games that we Mavs fans have seen the calls go the Spurs way. These "bad calls have gone both ways. The officiating has been as poor this season as it has always been and will always continue to be. You Spurs fans had no problem when the calls always went your way during the last several years. Now the refs are just recognizing an aging team that is no longer dominant.

You guys talk alot of mess around here about respect and being champions. You and your team should start acting and playing like the champions that you are, and stop worrying and crying so much about the refs.

Every team, every year has a complaint against the refs, but these Spurs are letting it get into their heads and it is affecting the team as a result. Last night Bowen actually started crying to David Stern in the stands about a call DURING THE GAME!!!

I am personally shocked at the Spurs actions and at ude. Your team is better than this. I hope that the rest of the Spurs and their fans can attempt to follow POP's example and start acting with some class.

[ALVAREZ6]

Whatever.


this series, the Mavs will never win a championship anyway so it's all good.



If Stern somehow pulls off some more bull and the Mavs beat the Pistons in the finals, then you know something is up.

[Melmart1]

Why are there Mavs fans in a gotdamn mother ing venting thread? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of venting, when someone is arguing with you? Get the out. Go ruin all the other threads, assholes.

[ALVAREZ6]

The constant whinning and crying about officiating from the entire Spurs camp (except POP, he has been the only one to give the Mavs the credit that they deserve) is completely ridiculous. There have been several stretches during these games that we Mavs fans have seen the calls go the Spurs way. These "bad calls have gone both ways. The officiating has been as poor this season as it has always been and will always continue to be. You Spurs fans had no problem when the calls always went your way during the last several years. Now the refs are just recognizing an aging team that is no longer dominant.

You guys talk alot of mess around here about respect and being champions. You and your team should start acting and playing like the champions that you are, and stop worrying and crying so much about the refs.

Every team, every year has a complaint against the refs, but these Spurs are letting it get into their heads and it is affecting the team as a result. Last night Bowen actually started crying to David Stern in the stands about a call DURING THE GAME!!!

I am personally shocked at the Spurs actions and at ude. Your team is better than this. I hope that the rest of the Spurs and their fans can attempt to follow POP's example and start acting with some class.

Good post, but that sure is easy to say when you're looking at this situation from the winning side.


Following Pop's example and start acting with some class is pretty hard to do when you have been bull ted on by the refs for 2 straight games.


Imagine explaining this to Tim Duncan. Tim has had an incredible series, putting up 30 points every ing night, playing like a monster, dominating the game. He is a guy who wants to get back to the finals and defend his championship, something that he's been waiting to do for a long time. But now he can't do it because of a bunch of terrible calls.

Imagine feeling that. You go from thinking in your mind that you are going back to the finals and facing Detroit, to " . I can't believe these refs have made us waste this entire season's effort for nothing," all in a very quick time frame.


It's bull .

[Jules]

No doubt, there have been a slew of bad calls this series. Regardless, it's time to focus on Game 5.

I regularly attend games across the county in support of the Spurs and I haven't cancelled my weekend trip to TX. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the pressure has mounted, but we're still in this.

Having said that, SA fans who will be in attendance for Game 5: We NEED your support! Get loud & nutty. Make sure the team knows that we're in it to win it... in 7!

Cheers!

[Kori Ellis]

Hi Julie!!

[ALVAREZ6]

The whole ing world has been predicting a Spurs vs. Pistons rematch, a series that would go down as a classic, considering the recent history.

The Pistons and the Spurs are clearly the 2 best teams in the world and both deserve to be in the finals. It's absolute crap that this event won't happen because Cuban and Avery cry their asses off like ing pussies and David Stern wants $ because the Spurs have no market and are boring.

[angel_luv]

No doubt, there have been a slew of bad calls this series. Regardless, it's time to focus on Game 5.

I regularly attend games across the county in support of the Spurs and I haven't cancelled my weekend trip to TX. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the pressure has mounted, but we're still in this.

Having said that, SA fans who will be in attendance for Game 5: We NEED your support! Get loud & nutty. Make sure the team knows that we're in it to win it... in 7!

Cheers!

[coachmac87]

hey big3bigd how do u expect the spurs to win a game on the road with duncan out during crunch time in game 3 or manu who was doin yall dirty in game 4 both players foul out??? since when was shaq out one game and then kobe out the next?? and since when does the nazi shoot freethrows as tying or game winning shots.. in back to back games??? 93 combined freethrows in back to back games... so dont tell me the refs have no say in the outcome of this series and were being babies...mr.cuban loses money every year complaing..now its our turn

[midgetonadonkey]

Alvarez needs a nap. He is cranky.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Imagine explaining this to Tim Duncan. Tim has had an incredible series, putting up 30 points every ing night, playing like a monster, dominating the game. He is a guy who wants to get back to the finals and defend his championship, something that he's been waiting to do for a long time. But now he can't do it because of a bunch of terrible calls.

Imagine feeling that. You go from thinking in your mind that you are going back to the finals and facing Detroit, to " . I can't believe these refs have made us waste this entire season's effort for nothing," all in a very quick time frame.


It's bull .

Tim Duncan is probably worrying about if his teammates are going to show up to play, rather than who is going to ref the game.

[tlongII]

You may have a little bit of understanding how us Seahawks fans feel now.

[Spurologist]

You may have a little bit of understanding how us Seahawks fans feel now.

This is worse TEN ing FOLD

[big3bigD]

Good post, but that sure is easy to say when you're looking at this situation from the winning side.


Following Pop's example and start acting with some class is pretty hard to do when you have been bull ted on by the refs for 2 straight games.


Imagine explaining this to Tim Duncan. Tim has had an incredible series, putting up 30 points every ing night, playing like a monster, dominating the game. He is a guy who wants to get back to the finals and defend his championship, something that he's been waiting to do for a long time. But now he can't do it because of a bunch of terrible calls.

Imagine feeling that. You go from thinking in your mind that you are going back to the finals and facing Detroit, to " . I can't believe these refs have made us waste this entire season's effort for nothing," all in a very quick time frame.


It's bull .

I thought about that after submitting that post, but even though they are losing right now, I still think the the Spurs are too good of an organization to go out on a tirade about referees. They have always exemplified class and dignity during success, I would hate to see them act any differently in defeat.

I agree that this series has to be killing Duncan. This is one of his best post season series in recent memory, but his team is still losing 3-1. Duncan has been unbelieveable so far in this series and the Mavs have absolutely no answer for him.

I disagree that he is losing these games due to bad calls though. As I said earlier, we Mavs fans have watced Damp and Diop get a litany of fouls on Duncan for just breathing around him.

Last game BOTH teams shot 32 free throws apiece. That shows no bias or advantage for either team. These two teams also have a history of playing in foul plauged games. They set a record for free throws shot during one of the 2003 Conference Finals games.

Finally, you have to take Cuban into consideration here. There is no way Stern or anyone else in the front office wants to do Cuban any favors. These refs aren't possibly being influenced by him on a positive manner. Cuban is pretty universally disliked around the league and among refs for obvious reasons.

[mavsrule]

The referees have been calling way too many shots.. I do see that, the foul on Dirk at the end was very questionable... but to say that the refs want the mavs to win is nonsense.... Both teams have played great ball on all games,(except game 2 when the spurs got blown out) The difference is that the mavs are a good free throw team and the spurs are not..
Let's enjoy the series, the best team always comes up on top in a 7 game series.

[temujin]

Good day everybody.

I still see an issue of refereeing.
Anything like Game 3 (I didn't watch Game 4)?

[coachmac87]

ya they shot the same ammount of fts in game 4....but damn dont tell me that bowen foul even if ur a mavs fan or w/e that was crap....let dirk get a shot off but man not even get a shot off and dirk was making the contact not bowen usin his elbow i clearly thought when the whistle was blown it was offensive..and did u forget game 3 when yall shot 50 fts and we shot 32? thats a difference of 18 and we lost by 1 point...so refs do matter in this series the mavs still havent won anything yet..but if they do its the refs and david sterns victory not the mavs