Spurs to lose opener!

[Mavs_man_41]

Damn, JGrice02 has been viewing this thread for about 30 minutes trying to think up an intelligent response, and i dont have all day to sit and argue. I am about to be leaving so if you want to think the mavs did nothing this offseason and the spurs improved so much then go right ahead. Ill be back later tonight to argue this with you.

[JGrice02]

Damn, JGrice02 has been viewing this thread for about 30 minutes trying to think up an intelligent response, and i dont have all day to sit and argue. I am about to be leaving so if you want to think the mavs did nothing this offseason and the spurs improved so much then go right ahead. Ill be back later tonight to argue this with you.

There is no need for a response when you have done absolutely nothing to further your argument. Simply repeating what you already said is not an argument. Redundant? Yes. But not an argument. You haven't given an argument; only an ignorantly conceived assertion that the Mavs upgraded whereas the Spurs did not.

There was one upgrade on the Mavs roster, I have already explained that to you. You cannot support any of your other assertions. And there is a reason for that -- there are no facts to support your assertions. You simply appeal to yourself as some sort of authority who assumes that whatever you say is true, regardless of what stats or common sense tell us.

No, you aren't arguing. You are just being anoying. Heck, I welcome an argument from you. But I highly doubt you can string together two cogent sentences. Prove me wrong. And, please, don't repeat the same nonsense that I showed to be just that -- nonsense. You want to argue? Start by thinking before you type...

[NBA Junkie]

For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver.

Hardly. In 72 games, Elson played an average of 22 minutes per game.

Not bad for a supposed 12th man, eh?

[NBA Junkie]

There's no doubt that all of those Mavs/Spurs games should be nationally televised. That is that easily best and most exciting matchup in the NBA right now. That West Semis series last season was one of the best that I'v ever seen.

Yes. All 4 meetings are nationally televised. Nov 2 is on TNT. Nov 24 and Jan 5 are on ESPN, and the final meeting is on ABC on Apr 15.

[ShoogarBear]

I'd say the additions of Ager, Buckner, George, Johnson, and Croshere > the spurs additions of Butler, Elson, Bonner, Williams, and Vaughn by a long shot. For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver. The mavs have done alot to seperate themselves from the spurs this offseason.

The Mavs have had more talent than the Spurs every year from 2001 onward. Big whoop if they still do.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd say the additions of Ager, Buckner, George, Johnson, and Croshere > the spurs additions of Butler, Elson, Bonner, Williams, and Vaughn by a long shot. For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver. The mavs have done alot to seperate themselves from the spurs this offseason.

You're talking about the additional of overall talent. The NBA isn't much about who has the most overall talent. It has much, much more to do with how teams matchup with each other, which has less to do with talent than it does with how a team is constructed.

I'd say that the difference between the teams in the playoffs wasn't terribly substantial. It's not proveable, but the difference between the teams was so small that it strikes me as reasonable to think that if the Spurs had gotten 2 ppg and 5 rpg from their center and something other than a foul-fest from a point who couldn't defend anymore the result of that series might have been different.

Jacque Vaughn might not be the most talented back-up PG in the league, for example, but if he can play defense for 10-12 minutes per night and contribute a bucket or a assist or two, the Spurs are a better team in a playoff situation than they were last year. If Francisco Elson or Jackie Butler can give the Spurs 10-15 minutes per night and some rebounding, the Spurs will be better because Mike Finley won't have to start games at the 4 and the Spurs bench will be longer. They're not super-talented, but the Spurs need guys to fill roles, not guys to dominate play.

Shoog is right -- there's nothing unusual about the Mavericks being the more talented team on paper in this comparison; but the more talented team didn't win in 2001 or 2003 and the more talented team squeeked by in 2006. The Spurs moves this summer aren't as flashy as those the Mavs made, but they might be enough to push the Spurs back over the top, which is all that matters.

[ShoogarBear]

squeeked

I hate these hicks who make the rest of us Spur fans look ignorant.

[confined]

Shoog is right -- there's nothing unusual about the Mavericks being the more talented team on paper in this comparison; but the more talented team didn't win in 2001 or 2003 and the more talented team squeeked by in 2006. The Spurs moves this summer aren't as flashy as those the Mavs made, but they might be enough to push the Spurs back over the top, which is all that matters.[/QUOTE]

probably not

[A Man of Few Words]

I hate these hicks who make the rest of us Spur fans look ignorant.

[confined]

cant we all just get along?

[Dalhoop]

I think that the Spurs are thinking that they will not run into the Mavs this next year in the play-offs. The changes that they have made are not conducive to doing better against the way that the Mavs play the Spurs, while the Mavs have reinforced with their roster moves that they intend to play this way all the time.

This isn't a knock on either team, just an observation.

The Mavs moves show that they intend to play Harris and Terry together most of the time and to keep Diop or Dampier in the game. The Mavs didn't play "small ball" to win vs the Spurs, they always had a center in the game guarding Duncan (fouling him, to be more precise ), the Spurs had to play "small ball" to keep up. The additions that they have made does not change the fundimental match-ups of the game.

Unless either Bonner, Butler, Elson or Duncan guards Nowitzki the Spurs will be forced into another "small ball" situation. Now I will be honest, I cannot remember how well Bonner, Butler or Elson have done in the past against Dirk, I do know that the Spurs avoid putting Duncan on him to keep him from foul trouble (With Dirk playing closer to the rim, this problem has increased from years past when he would be out on the three point arc)

I feel that a game between the two team will come down to that match-up more then any other. If the Spurs put Bowen on Dirk, they will have to go small and the Mavs will prevail again in a seven game series.

[Amarelooms]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their ing and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

What bull lol. So sad Spurs fans.

[Mavs_man_41]

There is no need for a response when you have done absolutely nothing to further your argument. Simply repeating what you already said is not an argument. Redundant? Yes. But not an argument. You haven't given an argument; only an ignorantly conceived assertion that the Mavs upgraded whereas the Spurs did not.

There was one upgrade on the Mavs roster, I have already explained that to you. You cannot support any of your other assertions. And there is a reason for that -- there are no facts to support your assertions. You simply appeal to yourself as some sort of authority who assumes that whatever you say is true, regardless of what stats or common sense tell us.

No, you aren't arguing. You are just being anoying. Heck, I welcome an argument from you. But I highly doubt you can string together two cogent sentences. Prove me wrong. And, please, don't repeat the same nonsense that I showed to be just that -- nonsense. You want to argue? Start by thinking before you type...

The reason i have to keep repeating myself is because you keep repeating that the mavs havent upgraded their roster this offseason, which i thought was obvious that they did. I dont have the time or the patience to back this up with numbers. Im not going to waste my time posting a stat by stat comparison of Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner just to please you and "prove" that its an upgrade. I think its pretty obvious that they are similar players whose strongpoints are both defense, although Buckner is the much better shooter. The same can be said of all the other positions the mavs upgraded on this past offseason. And just for the record, go look up the stats on nba.com on your own time. Even though Griffin was a starter all through the regular season, Buckner is still better statwise while coming off the bench. I dont care to look up any of the other mavs aquisitions but feel free do it yourself and try to "prove me wrong."

[Haiku]

this thread is a waste
too many long paragraphs
and nobody wins

[Mavs_man_41]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their ing and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

This is a load of bull , you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.

[Haiku]

This is a load of bull , you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.

this guy might be right.
rugby or swimming. you just
cant compare the two

[JGrice02]

The reason i have to keep repeating myself is because you keep repeating that the mavs havent upgraded their roster this offseason, which i thought was obvious that they did. I dont have the time or the patience to back this up with numbers. Im not going to waste my time posting a stat by stat comparison of Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner just to please you and "prove" that its an upgrade. I think its pretty obvious that they are similar players whose strongpoints are both defense, although Buckner is the much better shooter. The same can be said of all the other positions the mavs upgraded on this past offseason. And just for the record, go look up the stats on nba.com on your own time. Even though Griffin was a starter all through the regular season, Buckner is still better statwise while coming off the bench. I dont care to look up any of the other mavs aquisitions but feel free do it yourself and try to "prove me wrong."

Actually, I looked up stats on the Mavs acquisitions before I even posted on this thread. That's what thinking people do who think before they post. And I haven't repeated anything since my original thread other than my main point - the Mavs clearly upgraded in one area, backup PG. Aside from that you can hope for an upgrade but one is certainly not apparent.

Now, you can't really argue against that because I'm right. So I see why you chose not too. That's fine with me. The only problem I have is that your pride is preventing you from raising the white flag. I can understand why your Mavs bias may lead you to believe that they made some upgrades, but when the situation is looked at objectively you simply cannot aruge that point with confidence. Yet you are adamant about arguing from an unsubstantiated position.

It is your fan bias, not reality, that makes you think the Mavs have truly updgraded. It is your blind support, not facts, that makes you think the Mavs have oibviously separated themselves from the Spurs. I can understand that, because fans do it all the time. But it was you who called me out for a response; and at the same time it was you who never even responded to my original post. You simply repeated the same, company line, regardless of what holes were poked in your "argument". So you see, I have no reason to further a successful argument. And your silence with regards to my original argumet is telling that you have no recourse.

Yeild.

[mabber]

Actually, I looked up stats on the Mavs acquisitions before I even posted on this thread. That's what thinking people do who think before they post. And I haven't repeated anything since my original thread other than my main point - the Mavs clearly upgraded in one area, backup PG. Aside from that you can hope for an upgrade but one is certainly not apparent.

Now, you can't really argue against that because I'm right. So I see why you chose not too. That's fine with me. The only problem I have is that your pride is preventing you from raising the white flag. I can understand why your Mavs bias may lead you to believe that they made some upgrades, but when the situation is looked at objectively you simply cannot aruge that point with confidence. Yet you are adamant about arguing from an unsubstantiated position.

It is your fan bias, not reality, that makes you think the Mavs have truly updgraded. It is your blind support, not facts, that makes you think the Mavs have oibviously separated themselves from the Spurs. I can understand that, because fans do it all the time. But it was you who called me out for a response; and at the same time it was you who never even responded to my original post. You simply repeated the same, company line, regardless of what holes were poked in your "argument". So you see, I have no reason to further a successful argument. And your silence with regards to my original argumet is telling that you have no recourse.

Yeild.

A Mav writer's perspective for what it's worth...

Wow Factor
Mavs' Roster Seems Loaded For '06

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
To some degree, we wrote it, typed it, edited it and published it almost by rote. The Mavs' roster/depth chart as we see it today:

C - Diop, Dampier, Mbenga
PF - Nowitzki, Croshere, Pops
SF - Howard, George
SG - Buckner, Stackhouse, Ager
PG - Terry, Harris, Johnson



We might oughta take one more glance at it.
Glancing, glancing, glancing. ...
Wow.
A franchise long starved for one proven NBA center now has two, with a third just now emerging from the womb. Nowitzki is a superstar, his running mate at forward Josh Howard is a budding star, each soon to be under long-term contractual lock, with a both-position backup in the affordable Devean George, plus a shooter in Croshere, plus an exciting prospect in Pops acquired at no cost. The 2 is loaded with a trio of two-way players. The point-guard position features a trio of guys who all had starting and starring moments in last year's playoffs.
The quality and depth of the roster is matched only by that of the front office. I wouldn't trade the Trinity River Trinity of owner, GM and coach for any in the NBA. Mavs management now possesses a slow hand when it comes to the development of the club (Avery's calming influence on the franchise's once-frenzied approach to talent acquisition) but at the same time possesses a quick trigger finger when it comes to executing must-do's (when Mike James falls through, the club wastes no time finding a James-a-like in Anthony Johnson). That approach has fueled apparent upgrades to the supporting cast: Griff is out but Buck is in; Van Horn is out but Croshere is in; Armstrong is out but Johnson is in; Marquis is out but Ager is in. Dallas got to the NBA Finals on the strength of essentially an eight-man rotation, and that rotation comes back familiar, experienced and just as strong. As for the rest of the new, seemingly well-fitting bodies? They help win 60 on the way to the postseason. The arena is majestic, the fans are supportive, the franchise is muscular and their NBA Finals runners-up status would figure to make them hungry. Oh, and Las Vegas loves 'em.
The only thing lacking in this team and this franchise right now (unless you're among the fuds who want Cuban to change seats or whine about Nash's departure) is a line at the Mavs' complaint window and a space in the police blotter.
Wow.

10:00 am Aug 5 06

[JGrice02]

That approach has fueled apparent upgrades to the supporting cast: Griff is out but Buck is in; Van Horn is out but Croshere is in; Armstrong is out but Johnson is in; Marquis is out but Ager is in. Dallas got to the NBA Finals on the strength of essentially an eight-man rotation, and that rotation comes back familiar, experienced and just as strong. As for the rest of the new, seemingly well-fitting bodies? They help win 60 on the way to the postseason.
10:00 am Aug 5 06

I'm not surprised by any of this as I expect most Mavs fans and writers to enhance the good. I think it is noteworthy that the writer recognized his own bias and qualified his opinion on their off-season moves with the words "apparent upgrades". That is because, at best, they are "apparent" upgrades. Realistically, they are equal exchanges that made fiscal sense.

Only Johnson is a significant upgrade that I think the Mavs will be please with. The other replacement parts appear to be equal exchanges with little-to-no differentiation. One can easily argue that Ager, in the short-term, will be a downgrade from Daniels. That's why I like to combine George & Ager into a player that the Mavs hope can replace and improve on Daniels contributions. But unlike Johnsons, Croshere, and Buckner, the Mavs don't really know what they have in Ager yet and I'm not sure they will like what George brings.

Thus the Mavs have a sure upgrade in Johnson and some nice replacement parts at an affordable price. Are players 9-12 really upgrades? I suppose if you squint your eyes you can see a silver lining. But to argue that they separate the Mavs from the Spurs when their role in a series will be minimal? When the same core of players return from a series that was all but wrapped up by the Spurs before a mistake by Manu gifted the Mavs a chance at redemption? That's where I take exception to the opinion that the Mav's moves have given them significant separation from the Spurs.

I would argue that the opposite is true, that the Spurs actually improved their roster with regards to how they will matchup against Dallas and Phoenix, but I have my own bias that would need to qualify that argument. In any event, I think we have given enough time to players 9-12 on the Mavs roster.

[Dalhoop]

Croshere is an improvement over KVH.

Last year Croshere shot better %'s on both 2's and 3's and FT's, he also almost doubled KVH's rebound numbers. Although last year both players missed games (about 30 each) Croshere has been healthy, KVH has not been. His is an improvement.

Pop's is an improvemnt over PPod

PPod came into the league at a time that prevented him from going to the D-League, the only time he could get on the floor was in games (not going to happen). Pop's can go to the D-League and get regular playing time to furture improve his game. Because of this, he is an upgrade.

George is an improvement over .... well nobody.

Last year Stackhouse covered both the SG and SF posistions because the Mavs didn't have anyone to fill that spot (AJ didn't give Daniels minutes). By the very act of getting on the floor he becomes an upgrade over Daniels as even if he does nothing, he gives a player a chance to rest.

[Mavs_man_41]

Lmao JGrice, you cant base whether or not some people are improvements just because of stats. Intangibles dont show up in stats. Some people got more minutes because they were in a better position than others. You say i have done nothing to further my argument, and i told you that while i dont have the patience to post meaningless stats for every mavs aquisition, i did go to nba.com and check the stats for Greg Buckner, who you say isnt an upgrade. By the way, Buckner put up better numbers from a bench role than Griffin did as a starter. So shut the up and quit telling me i am conceding to you, how about you further your argument on how Buckner "isn't an upgrade" over Griffin. You say the mavs havent improved their roster so we will take it one position at a time, starting with SG.

[Mavs_man_41]

I'm not surprised by any of this as I expect most Mavs fans and writers to enhance the good.

Lol i think that most sport writers know alot more about mavs aquisitions then your casual, head up his ass spurs fan. You know that your team lost to the mavs last year and you are insecure about their chances this year after what the mavs have done this offseason.

[JGrice02]

You say the mavs havent improved their roster so we will take it one position at a time, starting with SG.

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a le. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a le next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another le, oops, I mean, a first le.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first le.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.

[shaggy17]

This is a load of bull , you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.

Ahhh typical yet comedy that you defend Dirk being able to handle physical play. Also that one series was the NBA Finals! You know the biggest stage of them all??? Sorry but proving you can ball in the first 3 rounds and turning extra soft in the le round defines who you are as a player when everything is on the line. The truth hurts

[confined]

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a le. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a le next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another le, oops, I mean, a first le.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first le.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.

^JGrice02....ur my idol man... i could never have the patience to type all that ....i salute u