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it is
thats the whole allure to wrestling imo
we all know in our hearts its fake but it requries a certain degree of brainlessness if you like watching fake wrestling with guys who are pretending to be themselves.
Well, since I only paid attention long enough to watch the matches because the gimmicks annoyed the out of me, I enjoyed the tool. But I can appreciate what you are talking about, having read what Foley did to create his characters. You are probably right that it is a lost art form.
it is
thats the whole allure to wrestling imo
we all know in our hearts its fake but it requries a certain degree of brainlessness if you like watching fake wrestling with guys who are pretending to be themselves.
There shouldn't be any excuse making. No amount of pain relievers, steroids, anti-depressants, concussions, road wariness, cocaine or whatever the excuse of the moment is can explain killing your wife and kid over a period of days and living with their rotting carcases in your home.
No excuses. He was pathetic excuse for a human being who went out in the most cowardly way possible. End of story.
Hmmm...I am not defending it.
You just have to understand...that I followed this guy's career for years and admired the dude for his professionalism and dedication even.
I liked him for many of the same reasons I like the Spurs(and Palmeiro).
It's easy to judge and be dismissive when you aren't a fan of the field or the guy...but when you are, it's a lot more difficult. It does give you a reason to think.
I don't see that. It's huge news in the NBA if a guy shoots a gun straight up in the air. You can't compare that to this.
If you want to say something is wrong with wrestling because a lot of them end up dead before they reach the age of 50, then you can say that. Perhaps only the NFL can boast anything close to such a legacy ... and even they're not really close.
Oh bull ...NFL. MLB, NHL.
I mean Rod Beck just died at 38...you think that was of natural causes?
NHL players are nearly killing each other these days...
MLB players and NFL players have recently shot and killed people...(Urgeth Urbina much?)
Come to think of it...it hasn't been that long since Jayson Williams was mired in a similar controversy.
You look at the trends in sports, and it is becoming errily similar to the violence and fights to the death in Sports that coincided with the demise of the Roman empire.
I'd say that the NBA is the only sport that doesn't have that trend increasing...but that's because all the guys are stoned.
Weed>Steroids
But still, out of wedlock babies, domestic violence, premature death to drug use...these things happen in the NBA.
Keep in mind that the NBA has a much smaller pool of active athletes than any of these other fields.
And TimVP...wrestlers die younger than any of the pro sports because they put their bodies through more abuse than any of those other sports.
Wrestlers wrestle every night just about. Imagine if the NFL players played every night, or boxers boxed every night and it's similar to what wrestlers go through.
The appeal of wrestling to me was always the great heels...
The guys that could just piss you off endlessly by talking , even though you knew it was scripted and was mostly showmanship...the great ones can still piss you off even when you know it's fake...and eventually, you end up liking them.
Ric Flair...
He could just drive people insane by getting on the mic and going on a long rant...and he was a top draw and made a buttload of money doing it.
When I was a kid the big heel in Central and South Texas was Tully Blanchard...
Man this dude would just drive me insane with his hateful obnoxiousness and I couldn't wait to tune in to see him get his ass kicked. Even better when I got to see Ivan Putski do it in person.
I'd say Benoit started the no gimmick gimmick long before Angle did though.
He was a good guy, except for that whole double murder & suicide thing.
Oh...and I think Angle's on TNA now.
Wrestlers don't die that young because they slam on the mat 300 times a year. It may make them brittle but they die because of steroids and cocaine. That's the culprit.
I defended Benoit earlier before the secondary reports because he looked like a genuinely good guy. I was wrong about that impression. What he did was abominable.
You also can't mold the Benoit slayings into a problem with the sports culture as a whole. Wrestling has like 1 out of every 8 guys die before 60 if not more. Other major sports have some tiny percentage of bad that is only magnified because of their spotlight and ESPN helps portray these image.
Drugs, speeding tickets, shooting a gun into the air, brawls, dog fighting, and even Pacman's strip club incidental don't come anywhere close to this meditated, sadistic killing by Benoit. So it's unfair to put this into the sports culture that is exacerbated by ESPN.
WWE isn't a sport anyway. It's entertainment.
No one is saying that...more like they thought he was a good guy, and he turned out not to be, in fact, he turned out to be a really disturbed and monstrous guy, and it's more a case trying to reconcile how they could be so wrong about him. And many, many were. The people that knew him longest were shipping their kids off to him to train...
Detailed WWE/Benoit timeline
Written: June 26, 2007
Below is a detailed WWE/Chris Benoit timeline from Saturday to Monday:
Saturday, June 23, 2007
Chris Benoit was scheduled to appear at the WWE SmackDown/ ECW live event in Beaumont, Texas
3:30pm
A co-worker received a voice message from Benoit. The message from Benoit stated he missed his flight and over slept and would be late to the WWE Live Event. The co-worker called Benoit back, Benoit confirmed everything he said in his voice message and sounded tired and groggy. Benoit then stated, “I love you”. The co-worker stated that it was “out of context.”
3:42pm
The same co-worker was concerned with Benoit’s tone and demeanor and called Benoit for a second time. Benoit did not answer the call and the co-worker left a message stating “just call me back.”
3:44pm
Benoit called the co-worker back stating he didn’t answer the call because he was on the phone with Delta changing his flight. Benoit stated he had a real stressful day due to Nancy and Daniel being sick with food poisoning. They discussed travel plans for the WWE Tour of Texas with Benoit still sounding groggy at this point according to the co-worker.
4:30pm
A co-worker who consistently travels with Benoit, called Benoit from outside Houston airport and Benoit answered. Benoit told the co-worker that Nancy was throwing up blood and that Daniel was also throwing up. Benoit thought they had food poisoning. Benoit stated he changed his flight and he would be arriving into Houston at 6:30pm. Benoit told the co-worker to drive onto the WWE event.
5:35pm
Benoit called WWE Talent Relations stating that his son was throwing up and that he and Nancy were in the hospital with their son, and that Benoit would be taking a later flight into Houston, landing late, but would make the WWE live event in Beaumont.
6:10pm
A representative of Talent Relations called Benoit. The representative from Talent Relations asked Benoit what time Benoit was getting into Beaumont. Benoit responded he was leaving Atlanta at 9:20pm Eastern time arriving into Houston at 9:24pm Central time. The representative from Talent Relations advised Benoit that it would be too late to make the WWE live event in Beaumont. Benoit apologized citing he had a family emergency. The representative from Talent Relations suggested to Benoit that instead of going to the WWE live event in Beaumont, Benoit should take the flight to Houston, rest up and be ready for the Vengeance Pay-Per-View event.
6:13pm
The representative from Talent Relations called Benoit to reconfirm the travel plans with no answer from Benoit. The representative from Talent Relations left a voice message to take the flight and rest up.
Sunday, June 24, 2007
Text messages sent to co-workers from Chris Benoit and Nancy Benoit’s cell phones:
Text Message 1
Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before)
From: Benoit’s cell phone
When: 6/24 at 3:53am from
Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215
Text Message 2
Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before)
From: Benoit’s cell phone
When: 6/24 at 3:53am
Message: The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open
Text Message 3
Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before)
From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
When: 6/24 at 3:54am
Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215
Text Message 4
Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before)
From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
When: 6/24 at 3:55am
Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215
Text Message 5
Sent to: A Co-Worker who consistently traveled with Benoit
From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
When: 6/24 at 3:58am
Message: My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215
WWE made several attempts to contact Benoit via phone and text messages, as well as, the local hospitals in the Atlanta area. As of 11:00 pm Sunday night there was no contact made with Benoit.
Monday, June 25, 2007
12:30pm
WWE was notified of text messages sent to the two co-workers.
12:45pm
WWE contacted the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office and requested them to go to Benoit’s
residence
4:00pm
WWE received a call from the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office, advising that they entered
the house of Benoit and found 3 deceased bodies (a male, a female and a child). The Fayetteville Sheriff’s office has secured the house as a “major crime scene” and that the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s Office had no further information.
Wrong...they do die because of that, in fact they sometiimes die because of one slam gone wrong with far more regularity than any pro-sport.
Sure, but those are also the culprit in most of the other pro sports.It may make them brittle but they die because of steroids and cocaine. That's the culprit.
Me too...I defended Benoit earlier before the secondary reports because he looked like a genuinely good guy. I was wrong about that impression. What he did was abominable.
You also can't mold the Benoit slayings into a problem with the sports culture as a whole. Wrestling has like 1 out of every 8 guys die before 60 if not more. Other major sports have some tiny percentage of bad that is only magnified because of their spotlight and ESPN helps portray these image.
Actually, I can...
I can pretty much find a similar act of violence in almost every pro sport in recent memory.
Drugs, speeding tickets, shooting a gun into the air, brawls, dog fighting, and even Pacman's strip club incidental don't come anywhere close to this meditated, sadistic killing by Benoit. So it's unfair to put this into the sports culture that is exacerbated by ESPN.
Hmmm...a couple of years ago an NFL player had his pregnant girlfriend murdered, Ugueth Urbina in baseball had someone murdered(or did it himself recently)...
WWE isn't a sport anyway. It's entertainment.
The physical destruction that wrestling puts on the body far exceeds that of any of the pro-sports.
Want to do a broken neck count? It isn't cocaine breaking their necks.
Wrestling doesn't have the market cornered on s bags or drug abusers...or and the NFL can give any thing else a run for it's money when it comes to steroid abuse.
Never heard of the guy. Then again, I stopped watching "professional" wrestling at age 7.
Lemme guess, the now deceased "athlete" with TD.
No brah, that's Sean Michaels (An SA native) and Ric Flair (A living mummy)
Whottt--I knew of CB since the WCW days but after reading this thread and reconsidering this guy who i didnt like cuz he was so damn boring i have to admit you're right he did start the whole non-gimmick gimmick thing
the guys in wrestling cuz they were actual good wrestlers was few and far between during the NWO WCW years. he was one of 'em.
No..but Duncan sure was a mature 7 year old...don't you think?
When he was at ECW in hte early 90's they tried to give him a gimmick as a psycho who would hurt anyone...it didn't work, no one believed it. That's why he was always booked as a face with no gimmick other than wrestling.
I cannot believe people still give the whole "they're not athletes, what they do is no big deal" bit....jesus christ, these guys premeditate who wins the god damn match but that doesn't mean they don't really get some good shots in on each other, and no matter how many springs are below that mat, they still slam into it 50 times a night for like 300+ nights a year.
Doing fake frog splashes, back flips, picking a guy up who helps you by jumping, etc, its all tiring no matter how much help you get.
/endrant
I can't believe what you said about Saturn too. Did he die? I actually liked Saturn. He was in Raven's flock during the NWO WCW years.
I will never forget when the whole "Goldberg" thing was going on, he runs into the ring immediately after a commercial break and was like
"I can't sleep at night!!!!!!! I gotta know!!! GOLDBERG, get out here!!!"
Then gets his ass beat by goldberg, rofl....
From Wiki about Saturn:
In April 2004, Satullo was shot three times in the neck with a .25 caliber handgun while foiling an attempted rape, suffering severe damage to his C-5, C-6, and C-7 vertebrae. Satullo only learned of this after he visited a physician and complained of burning sensations in his neck, originally attributing the impact to a punch from behind. After having steel plates and screws inserted into his neck, Satullo returned to the ring on September 17, 2004, and continued to receive epidural treatment. Since then, Satullo has continued to make appearances on the independent circuit but has gone into partial retirement due to the severity of his neck injury.
I was one out of 100 million WCW fans who as actually an avid fan of The Flock. I wanted a Flock tshirt but I dont think they ever made one.
1. The only death I've heard of because of a slam gone wrong is Owen Hart dropping from the cieling. The cause of death is cocaine and steroids. I don't know how you can't see that.
2. Professional wrestling is a close circle compared to any of the major league/association sports. Their death percentage is off the charts compared to all the other sports combined.
3. I'll give you that there has been other execution style deaths in pro sports, but I'd have to see some stats before I condemn the sports culture. Stats being what is the rate problem for other non-sports people. The backlash on the criminal activity was already underway though. That really wasn't I was asserting though. I was saying that this Benoit tragedy shouldn't be lumped into the other problems so commmonly thought of as problems with sports.
4. Pro football players take much more severe beatings, you have got to be joking. There's a reason RBs have to retire by 32. What other "sport" can you start by age 24 and leave at age 50. But that's besides the point, just because you subject yourself to punishment doesn't make it a sport. Sports aren't set up.
He calls himself "Merlin" and likes to play paint ball too.
Quote the raven, never more.
Wrestling may be scripted and as so isn't a sport, but I think I'd compare these guys to professional stuntmen who work more days than they don't. It's a brutal life no matter how you dice it.
Does anyone else see how crazy it is that Saturn got shot 3 time in the back of the neck and thought it was a "hard punch"? I know it was only a .25, but damn that's ing nuts.
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