Young Spurs seek roster spot - Butler shows he can play somewhere, while White lacks

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Wow what an incredibly depressing thread. LOL at myself for forgetting Jackie was younger than me. LOL at our front office.

[timvp]

Nice job on the Butler and White write ups, PHAT TONY. However, I disagree with you on points regarding Williams.

The Positives:

- When he was being aggressive offensively (though it rarely happened), he seemed to be able to get to the rim and more importantly, to finish strong. He'll need to show more ability in Salt Lake City...and Austin, if he makes the team....to take his man off the dribble. But once he gets past his man, he is very good at getting into the lane and finishing in traffic.

I disagree with that. The only time I saw him finish strong so far was when his man fell down and he had a clear path to the basket for a two handed jam. Outside of that, he's been even worse than White finishing at the basket.

Not only does he shy away from contact, he doesn't elevate high enough to really even get a shot at the rim. I remember one layup he had in traffic but it wasn't a strong move at all. He flipped it up with his left hand as he was moving away from the basket.

Call me crazy, but I think the positives with this kid outweigh the negatives. In a best-case scenario, I think he could be Josh Childress...a guy that alot of posters around here seem to like...and that ain't bad.

I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives of what we've seen so far. He attempts to play defense and he doesn't seem to have an at ude on offense. Those are the two positives I've seen.

His negatives are: his jump shot, his finishing ability, his speed, his quickness, his jumping ability, his explosiveness, his passing skills ... even his rebounding and ballhandling, which were supposed strengths, haven't really materialized into anything.

My hope with him is the Spurs can retool his jumper and get that going, which will then get him confidence enough to improve offensively. Defensively if he adds strength and he proves to be quick enough, he should be okay.

As far as a comparison, I don't see any resemblance to Josh Childress. Childress is a fantastic athlete who uses his athleticism to score. Williams doesn't have that type of athleticism at all.

The upside I see in him is more along the lines of Steve Smith with knees but without as good of a jumper. He moves at a Steve Smith like pace, which isn't horrible as long as he's hitting shots. If he could hit shots, he'd go from "slooooooooooooow" to "patient" offensively.

[justanotherspursfan]

2. The last time we had a supporting cast this old around TD, we got smoked by LA in the playoffs

4. We all know the reason Ian is in and Butler is on the way out is because they can get Ian on the cheap, even if he doesn't get off the bench all year long or contribute anything to the team

Does that mean you think Butler is going to be a real asset in winning a le this next year? I agree he has upside, but as raw as he looks in summer league, that seems like a stretch to me. If you're going to have one guy or the other as a developmental player who isn't going to play, it seems like they should go with whomever they believe in more, whichever player that is.

One nice thing about Ian is that he can get in a lot of playing time in Austin instead of sitting around in a suit. If Butler can't get PT, it's going to be hard for him to keep improving. That's certainly not a deciding factor, but it bears mentioning.

7. Some of us are smart enough to realize that our primary threat and the one team built to beat us (Dallas) was taken out by an upstart team that didn't know any better, we can't count on GS-Dallas every year to take care of that, and that we are sitting here two years later still needing to address the same weaknesses in this team's personnel.

Agreed. If there are moves we can make that improve the odds of getting past Dallas this year, we should make them. It's not clear to me that keeping Butler is such a move, but if you think he's a major short-term asset, I'd love to hear why.

8. Butler is 22 and talented, and we appear on the road to ship him out just so Holt doesn't have to pay a lux tax penalty.

If they think Ian is a better investment of their resources and they don't figure that either player is ready to get off the bench this year, then it seems like a plausible move. If all they're doing is penny penching and looking to carry an open slot, I agree with you.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now, didn't I say this on draft night, and everyone starting ripping me to shreds?

Eh, carry on.

No, you were going into congenital heart failure over the front office trading the almost Mr. Irrelevant Giorgis Papawhatever his name was.

[picnroll]

Yes, there are legitimate concerns about his mobility and post defense (needs to stay on the ground....

Staying close to the ground is not a problem for Butler.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Does that mean you think Butler is going to be a real asset in winning a le this next year? I agree he has upside, but as raw as he looks in summer league, that seems like a stretch to me. If you're going to have one guy or the other as a developmental player who isn't going to play, it seems like they should go with whomever they believe in more, whichever player that is.

I think he'd get off the bench, and also do well in a complimentary role to Tim.

10, 6 and 1-2 blocks a game, not to mention clogging the middle, is about what I'd expect out of him and what he would give us.

One nice thing about Ian is that he can get in a lot of playing time in Austin instead of sitting around in a suit. If Butler can't get PT, it's going to be hard for him to keep improving. That's certainly not a deciding factor, but it bears mentioning.

First, I think Ian is going to be a bust. Who tears a muscle going up for a dunk like that? He's going to spend his life on the IR.

I don't think it's much of a reach to see Butler continuing to improve. First, he's already made a lot of progress since last year.

Second, come on - he'd be playing against Tim every day in practice. , he already has been and you can see it in some of his offensive moves.

Agreed. If there are moves we can make that improve the odds of getting past Dallas this year, we should make them. It's not clear to me that keeping Butler is such a move, but if you think he's a major short-term asset, I'd love to hear why.

Think about Dallas and when they clowned on us with Diop and Dampier down low. Now think about them having to deal with Tim and Butler instead of Tim and Finley... or Barry.

I don't see how Ian would get us by them either, but people seem to think that's the way to go.

If they think Ian is a better investment of their resources and they don't figure that either player is ready to get off the bench this year, then it seems like a plausible move. If all they're doing is penny penching and looking to carry an open slot, I agree with you.

The issue here isn't Ian or Jackie, they could have both. The issue here is by all appearances they've made the decision that being under the lux tax > keeping a young developing talent in Butler, and that's just damn stupid.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

AHF we should write a long ass pe ion to the spurs front office not to deal butler.

[timvp]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73757

Too late

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Holt Cat

[jag]

Now, didn't I say this on draft night, and everyone starting ripping me to shreds?

Eh, carry on.

No, you were acting like a whiney and people got tired of it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Last I checked the Spurs had a fairly good record at roster moves. I think they know more about what players will fit the team than some guys on the internet watching highlight clips

Guess so.