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  1. #1
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    any kind of "wear and tear" or the Achilles injury.

    Dominique Wilkins came back from his Achilles injury and averaged 30 points the very next season, playing 71 games. Manu, more brittle, less athletic, and just as old as Kobe, is having one of his better seasons of the past few years. Tim Duncan is the most effective center in the league, and he's 40 and plays on one leg.

    Kobe was never really that efficient in his prime, and now that wing defenders are longer, more athletic, and more disciplined, his iso-centric, ball sticking, ball dominant 20 counter moves in the post type of style is easy to shut down for a modern defense with modern wing defenders. Furthermore, every team has an athletic wing now, and Kobe simply isn't used to having to play defense every night against wing players who are lighting quick and can all jump out of the gym. In the early-mid 00s, Kobe was matched with a Ruben Patterson type of player nearly every game. He can't coast on defense anymore, and he knows it.

    I'm not saying Kobe should be averaging 25 on 48%, but he shouldn't have regressed to the worst starting player in the league this quickly, especially with all the time off he's taken over the past 3 years. He simply did not evolve his skillset.

  2. #2
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.

  3. #3
    Grab 'em by the pussy Splits's Avatar
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    Age: 33

    Accomplishment: Last meaningful game

    Conclusion:

  4. #4
    Believe.
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    Its actually very simple,,,lakers couldn't convince Howard to stay or any big time free agent to sign and carry kobrick and now they are looking at 3 straight lottery years and he sees his legacy up in flames,,,,game ova.

  5. #5
    Banned
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    get off the already

  6. #6
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    get off the already
    Out come the alts to semen shield.

  7. #7
    Banned
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    Out come the alts to semen shield.
    my only alt is frodo outta here fat ass

  8. #8
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    The "banned" trick is mine. Get your own.

  9. #9
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    So what you're saying is Kobe's game dropped off a cliff not because of the achilles injury, old age and obvious loss of elevation and explosion but because in the span of only 3 seasons NBA defenders got longer and more athletic?

    Because Kobe was putting up 27PPG on 46% shooting 3 seasons ago before the achilles, not the 90's, not the mid-00's but just 3 seasons ago.

    So you mean to tell me, 3 seasons ago the elite defense and athleticism you mention didn't exist? Makes perfect sense

    Mid also claims isoball is easy to shutdown by modern defenses, yet 5 of the current top 10 scorers in the league are also the top 5 iso players.

  10. #10
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.
    This. being more adaptable would help his efficiency but he still sucks now. It's his body because once or twice a game (well lately once) he hits a beautiful fade-away but bricks or air balls a wide open 3. he has no lift on his shot his knees are shot. it's not just the achilles ...
    None are excuses. He is playing like ass, shooting like a dumbass and is horrid on defense all at $24 million.

  11. #11
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    So what you're saying is Kobe's game dropped off a cliff not because of the achilles injury, old age and obvious loss of elevation and explosion but because in the span of only 3 seasons NBA defenders got longer and more athletic?

    Because Kobe was putting up 27PPG on 46% shooting 3 seasons ago before the achilles, not the 90's, not the mid-00's but just 3 seasons ago.

    So you mean to tell me, 3 seasons ago the elite defense and athleticism you mention didn't exist? Makes perfect sense

    Mid also claims isoball is easy to shutdown by modern defenses, yet 5 of the current top 10 scorers in the league are also the top 5 iso players.
    Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

    I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.

  12. #12
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Eh, I buy some of this, but Kobe can't hit wide open jumpers. Not that he was a great shot at any point in his career, but he's a terrible player all the way around now.
    I buy the le but not the reason. I mean he's correct that Kobe has had efficiency issues. But the real issues that led to the injury that no one discusses is his greed/failure to adapt. He ran off teammates, sucked up huge % of the cap & never changed. It was that which led to the injuries than to this. That's on Kobe.

  13. #13
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Eh...the guy clearly doesn't have any lift on his shot. Manu is lucky he plays on a team that only needs 20-25 a night from him. Kobe plays with atrocious teammates in an iso-centric system. At this stage he needs to be a 15-20mpg role player ala KG. Unfortunately, his pride and LA's ty management sabotaged everything.

  14. #14
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Eh...the guy clearly doesn't have any lift on his shot. Manu is lucky he plays on a team that only needs 20-25 a night from him. Kobe plays with atrocious teammates in an iso-centric system. At this stage he needs to be a 15-20mpg role player ala KG. Unfortunately, his pride and LA's ty management sabotaged everything.
    "LAs ty management". Yes, they suck, but it's on Kobe. Not their fault there is a salary cap and Kobe demanded a huge chick of that which limits their ability to surround him. Not their fault his at ude and chucking ways scared off FA for the last 4 years. It's on Kobe.

  15. #15
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

    I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.
    Kobe, first all the talk of his footwork, often relied on just elevating over guys and shooting fadeaways. That elevation is gone, so he's just straight up chucking shots now. The other night, Iguadala beat Kobe off the dribble...Iguadala! The guys body has clearly betrayed him.

    At the same time, he refuses to play within a system and accept a lesser role. He should be a role player/spot-up shooter as you pointed out, but he'd rather continue bricking contested shots.

    I think the main issue here is not Kobe's inability to adapt to the modern game, it's his inability to adjust his style of play to his deteriorating skills/athleticism. Timmy adjusted, Dirk adjusted, KG adjusted. Kobe never even tried...

  16. #16
    Purple and Bold! whitemamba's Avatar
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    What a re ed thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be ting on the league, and If he was young kobe, in forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

  17. #17
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    "LAs ty management". Yes, they suck, but it's on Kobe. Not their fault there is a salary cap and Kobe demanded a huge chick of that which limits their ability to surround him. Not their fault his at ude and chucking ways scared off FA for the last 4 years. It's on Kobe.
    No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.

  18. #18
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    What a re ed thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be ting on the league, and If he was young kobe, in forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.
    the shooting guard position is an embarrassment in today's NBA, and even still Kobe can't even shoot 40%. Yes, his body broke down, but he could have adjusted. He never could be bothered to do anything but keep playing his usual brand of inefficient ball. The only problem is that now he doesn't have the all-world athleticism necessary to pull those moves/shots off. KG became a spot-up shooter and is now basically a glorified assistant coach, Dirk went from a faceup force to a high post force taking advantage of pnr switches, Timmy went from being the best post player in the league to one of the best PNR bigs. Kobe is still playing the same way he did in 05-06...

  19. #19
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.
    Really? Ya, that's why so many FAs came to LA over the last 4 years and why all the All Star FAs they had took less to leave. How about judging people on what they do vs what they say?

  20. #20
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    Yes, the new breed of the long wing defenders (Kawhi, Paul George, Draymond Green, etc) who were rookies/2nd year players in 2013 are now nearing their prime. Lebron James was the mold here and the player who drove that necessity to have such a defender on your team. And guess what? Kirby is .422 career shooter against James.

    I've already admitted the Achilles and injuries have affected Kobe, but they shouldn't have affected him to the point where he's arguably the worst starter in the league. He didn't adjust. He should've became a spot up shooter/off screen shooter, but he'd rather play in the post and chuck 3's because it's all he knows/wants to do. His ego won't allow the offense to generate offense for him. He needs to do the generating.
    I agree that Kobe should have adjusted, the days of 20 FGA per game were obviously over but such a drastic change of role is not in him. He said he wouldn't stick around to average less than 20PPG. So it's definitely time to say goodbye.

  21. #21
    Veteran weebo's Avatar
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    Kirby bryan sucks so bad at basketball he's been humiliated into retirement

  22. #22
    Veteran Indazone's Avatar
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    Dude should just be coming off the bench as a spark at this stage of his career.

  23. #23
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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  24. #24
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    So his love for all things basketball is so deep he retires and becomes...

    What exactly? What can he actually do for his Lakers that is constructive besides stay the away from any young talent?

  25. #25
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    So his love for all things basketball is so deep he retires and becomes...

    What exactly? What can he actually do for his Lakers that is constructive besides stay the away from any young talent?
    Hint: he does everything that Jordan does.

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