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  1. #101
    Obi Wan Ginobli
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    Do they have a projected completion date?

  2. #102
    Believe.
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    Really good post, FromWayDowntown.

    In a democracy, competing interests make getting projects done very difficult. And remember, the Spurs were not as great a part of San Antonio culture in 1999 during the arena vote (you were correct, it was 99) as they are now. They were a really big part, of course and had won their first championship, which made a HUGE difference. But not the same as it is 5 championships and being the best franchise in modern sports history later.

    It really was touch and go then. I'd go so far as to say if we had flamed out in the 99 playoffs (I know, we were a diamond-toothed shark riding a plutonium-fueled elephant, eating and trampling everything) we probably wouldn't have the Spurs and things would have been quite different for all of our lives as NBA and Spurs fans. I'd be telling sad tales of a time long gone by to whoever would listen, which would eventually be no one.

  3. #103
    Believe.
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    I miss the Alamodome.
    I do too. But it's not like you can't go there to UTSA games.

  4. #104
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    If you have the time this is pretty applicable to this thread
    I think the AT&T Center has a couple of major differences from the normal way that teams extract stadium blood money from local and state governments.

    First, the AT&T Center's public funding came -- as others have said above -- via a tax hike on hotels and rental cars, that put the burdens of the public part of the arena deal mostly on the backs of people who visit Bexar County rather than those who live in it. Since the tax was new, the County didn't really "lose" money on the deal.

    The other major difference for Bexar County is that it retained usage rights to the building for periods of time at least and has the ability to realize revenue at least from the events that it hosts in the building. I'm sure there's a legitimate criticism that the County should have retained even more interest in the revenue generated by the building, but to the extent that Spurs Sports & Entertainment maintains separate smaller companies that handle various aspects of the building's operations (parking, for instance), farming the revenue out to the Spurs actually comes at the savings to the County of having to staff and finance those things.

    Public funding of sports arenas has become a significant problem -- and, as bad as it is here, it's far worse with larger events run by ruthless en ies like FIFA and the IOC -- but I've thought that San Antonio/Bexar County handled the financing part of both the Alamodome and the AT&T Center about as well as any government has in building those sorts of projects.

  5. #105
    Believe..I'l Have another Biernutz's Avatar
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    I have been going to Spurs games since the old HemisFair Arena. The Spurs had to move because
    the arena was old and didn't have the private boxes that was needed to to make make a money to pay
    for better players. Or so they said. The arena could not be expanded past it's current seating. There was
    talk about the spurs leaving town as a new arena location could not be decided on by a split city council.
    The location was a big hang up as the majority council members wanted it located on the south side of
    San Antonio. This was a political ploy and everyone knew that was a poor choice. They could have put it
    south of HemisFair Plaza but the scheduled demolition of a housing project would be replaced with mixed
    housing project. So that was out.

    The Spurs said they would go to the Alamodome but this was to be a temporary home till a Arena
    was built. Tearing down the dome to build a arena was never seriously considered. The Spurs played in the
    dome but since the city had control of the dome the Spurs could only make so much money than if
    they were in control of the dome. The city would not give control of the dome to the Spurs. Red McCombs
    owned the team at that time and he was looking for a new local owner if he could. Peter Holt got a group
    together and bought control of the Spurs. The first thing on the agenda was a new home for
    the Spurs where they would have building control.

    The city wanted the Spurs to stay in the dome but the Spurs indicated if a new Arena was not coming
    they would move to another city. The politics of the city council once again got in the way. The south
    side once again wanted it built on unsuitable locations on the south side of San Antonio. Downtown
    locations once again turned into political football. A location at the old Fox tech school area location was
    considered till the owners of some of the land, IWC collage, wanted just way too much for the land. Another
    location was the abandoned Longhorn Quarry on the far northeast side close to I35 north. This location was
    perfect by many as it was considered on the north side where most paying fans live and it was closer to Austin's fans.
    The main hold up on this was the North East School District would not give the quarry and land around it a
    10 year tax abatement district. Part of the quarry plan was the arena with restaurants and clubs around it.
    When the NEISD school superintendent, a guy named Middelton stone walled the Spurs they went looking
    elsewhere. The strange thing about the quarry land was the school district bought half the land and built
    a $40 million football stadium there. They also also built Morgans Wonderland, a special needs
    park with the soccer fields along with a soccer stadium for a minor league team. There are no restaurants
    or clubs close to the area of these stadiums.There is also no tax collections on this land as both are non-profit.

    As the Spurs were looking like a team packing it's bags, the county government stepped in and offered
    county land next to the Freeman Coliseum on the east side from downtown. The selling point was cheep land
    and the arena could also be used for the Rodeo each year. A entertainment district with restaurants and clubs
    along with a auto race track that could hold NASCAR races. The Spurs got the control of the building and the
    parking around it. It was not a perfect location but because of all the politics in the city it seems like the only
    location that was left. The Spurs said if the arena was not voted for and the tax passed to build it ,they would leave.
    It was passed and here we are today.

    This is as close to the time line I can remember and I'm sure I probably left something out but San Antonio city
    council politics nearly let the Spurs Walk. The city had dismal leadership at the time and we nearly lost the team.

  6. #106
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the insider history that several people have provided in this thread. Very interesting politics and dealings.

    As someone earlier mentioned, the Spurs will likely be looking to build a brand new arena in 10-15 years. If recent history is any guide, the next negotiation should be dramatically different. If the Spurs keep up their reputation as one of the premier franchises in sports, various locations and political en ies should be tripping over themselves to bring the Spurs brand to their part of town. Hopefully this results in a highly favorable location for the next arena (theoretically, either on the north side near the Austin patrons, or in a more desirable downtown-ish setting.)

  7. #107
    I Poop SPURt's Avatar
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    I think the AT&T Center has a couple of major differences from the normal way that teams extract stadium blood money from local and state governments.

    First, the AT&T Center's public funding came -- as others have said above -- via a tax hike on hotels and rental cars, that put the burdens of the public part of the arena deal mostly on the backs of people who visit Bexar County rather than those who live in it. Since the tax was new, the County didn't really "lose" money on the deal.

    The other major difference for Bexar County is that it retained usage rights to the building for periods of time at least and has the ability to realize revenue at least from the events that it hosts in the building. I'm sure there's a legitimate criticism that the County should have retained even more interest in the revenue generated by the building, but to the extent that Spurs Sports & Entertainment maintains separate smaller companies that handle various aspects of the building's operations (parking, for instance), farming the revenue out to the Spurs actually comes at the savings to the County of having to staff and finance those things.

    Public funding of sports arenas has become a significant problem -- and, as bad as it is here, it's far worse with larger events run by ruthless en ies like FIFA and the IOC -- but I've thought that San Antonio/Bexar County handled the financing part of both the Alamodome and the AT&T Center about as well as any government has in building those sorts of projects.
    Wow, great post! Thanks for taking the time to write it! I didn't know that much detail about the Spurs deal. I wonder how much revenue the Spurs generate for the city when they make a Finals run?

    I'd feel much worse as a tax payer paying for an NFL stadium in Jacksonville. If the Spurs were the 76ers, I'd bet negotiations with the city have a different tone.

  8. #108
    fuk yo team clown Dingle Barry's Avatar
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    There is plenty of room downtown for an arena. Sure, you'd have to buy up some property. I like the three blocks bounded by Dolorosa St to the north, S Flores to the east, Cesar Chavez to the south, and S Santa Rosa to the west. I'd buy up everything except the Hampton Inn on the SE corner, the strip center on the NE corner, and the Casa Navarro state historic site.

    You'd be buying and razing the state prison (which doesn't need that real estate; probably get a fair deal on that), a charter school, and Bill Miller catering. Parking to the north of Nueva, and east of the creek. There's already a county parking garage right there. Close Graham St. and put the arena west of the creek between Cesar Chavez and Nueva. I don't know who owns the big vacant lot, but I would guess its the county.

    Smack dab in the middle of the city's dining and entertainment area, including market square and Mi Tierra. Numerous hotels close by. Easy access to I-10/35 and I-37, and there's a bunch of additional parking around there too. And that strip center on the NE corner would attract great game day entertainment establishments.

    That would be bad ass.

    What assholes decided to put a prison there? Re ed. EDIT: Ah, it's a federal ICE detention center. Of course.


    The Spurs saw the proposition and realized it was a piece of crap and wouldn't even take it to the voters. They said, these assholes, we're going to Baltimore.

    ...

    When a new stadium is needed (2025-2030 or so) I'm sure it will be downtown.
    I thought the talk at the time was St. Louis?

    I think it will be more like 2035 after this 100m infusion.
    Last edited by Dingle Barry; 08-26-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #109
    Believe.
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    I think it was Baltimore, St Louis and even New Orleans. I remember when they opened the arena next to Superdome Marion Barry standing on the steps at the ribbon cutting and stating he would try to lure the Spurs.

    You may be right that it might be 2035. I don't know--a lot can happen between now and then.

    Who has the oldest "modern" arena? Is it Detroit? Have they started rattling for a more modern facility? What is the lifespan of a modern arena?

  10. #110
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    San Antonio Spurs @spurs
    New, state-of-the-art LED system to light up the @attcenter next season.DETAILS: gospu.rs/1Vb8lfL

  11. #111
    Nuttin' in these bitches philldafunk's Avatar
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    I do too. But it's not like you can't go there to UTSA games.

    As a txst alum I don't do anything UTSA related lol

  12. #112
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    As a txst alum I don't do anything UTSA related lol
    You will in 2018, punk!

    In three years, it's ON!

  13. #113
    Believe..I'l Have another Biernutz's Avatar
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    update*
    new LED lights are in ,new surface on all flooring in the bowl and starting next
    week the new seats will be installed.

    http://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-update-9/1/15-0

  14. #114
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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  15. #115
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I did several public events representing the rodeo along with Sean Elliott representing the spurs. It was a great political marriage of common interests. It was really a contentious issue in SA. When we saw the secret polls a week before the vote we were afraid to believe them as it showed the arena passing easily.

  16. #116
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    them mexicans sure do good work

  17. #117
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Looks like there is still quite a bit of work to do given how much time they have left.

  18. #118
    Veteran stxspurs's Avatar
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    New jumbotron was going up this week. It's gonna kick ass.

  19. #119
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    Looks like there is still quite a bit of work to do given how much time they have left.


    I think it's a case of once the seats and new electronics go up then it'll look almost finished.

  20. #120
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I did several public events representing the rodeo along with Sean Elliott representing the spurs. It was a great political marriage of common interests. It was really a contentious issue in SA. When we saw the secret polls a week before the vote we were afraid to believe them as it showed the arena passing easily.
    It never really seemed in doubt after the Spurs won the le. Too bad the vote in 98 failed though since it would have put the arena on the NE side instead of the ghetto.

  21. #121
    HTTR Ditty's Avatar
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    Update from today per instagram user johnnylones

  22. #122
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    why didnt they just build a new stadium instead since they already put in 101.5m, +100-250m for new stadium...
    You don't really know what a new stadium costs, do you? The SBC Center (original name) cost $175M 13 ing years ago. You're probably looking at triple that now.

  23. #123
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    It never really seemed in doubt after the Spurs won the le. Too bad the vote in 98 failed though since it would have put the arena on the NE side instead of the ghetto.
    Would that have been good for either side of town? I don't see it.

  24. #124
    Believe.
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    Looks like they moved the Alamodome scoreboard to the NEW AT&T Center... Nice!!


    Update from today per instagram user johnnylones

  25. #125
    Veteran Big Empty's Avatar
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    damn i doubt its ready by the opener in a month

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