Tony Parker Vs Manu Ginobili...

[Yuixafun]

The answer to Sir Apalisoc's original question, is probably, objectively speaking, Parker....

However, if we are talking about intangibles, in one game, it could be Manu....

example, the Olympic games and the World Championships:

the step-ladder sequences are one-game affairs, here Manu shines the brightest!

---------------------------------------------

At their peak, in any given game, Manu's ability to wield Chaos against Order has to be supreme.

In this respect, using metaphorical language, Tony is the expert wizard, super-talented, a star in the Wizard Academy.

BUT MANU IS THE PROFESSOR OF WIZARDS! the Wizard who can control Chaos itself.

So...................................MANUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Tip of the hat to you)

That's an awesome way to put it lol... to wield chaos against order.

It reminds me of why Paquaio was so dangerous when he only knew how to throw his left hand and flurry.

He was like a wild beast fighting.

The more he became skilled and domesticated.. he lost that edge, where he would throw and attack from angles you aren't supposed to.

[Mnky]

That's because this is Spurstalk

When do you ever see positive Parker threads?

I meant NBA players. I'd never use spurtalk as a reference point of good opinion.

[TheGreatYacht]

I meant NBA players. I'd never use spurtalk as a reference point of good opinion.

OH okay nvm

[JR3]

Manu always had a three point shot and dunked over Yao Ming and Chris Bosh...

[EIC]

I really hope you're talking about the first Isaiah Thomas. Or maybe you would take a journeyman whose (1) never once shot above 45% from the field. Oh, also he's never shot 40% from the field in the playoffs or (2) won a playoff series. Seems about right for Spurstalk.

I'll admit that Thomas was a bit of a reach. That said, I'm not sure Westbrook has shot much better than Thomas and you'd be a fool to deny that Westbrook is a superior player to prime Parker. Regarding the second boldfaced point, can you name another player on the Celtics other than Thomas without Googling? I didn't think so. Prime Parker was surrounded by talent that Thomas can't even dream about.

[SpursBig3s]

Manu

[ElNono]

Some Per 36 stats, didn't see many stats posted...

Career regular season:

Ginobili: 19.2/5.4/5.0 - 59% TS, 20.9 PER, 101.2 WS, 45.5 VORP
Parker: 18.6/6.6/3.2 - 55% TS, 18.7 PER, 105.9 WS, 27.5 VORP

Career playoffs:

Ginobili: 18.4/4.9/5.2 - 58% TS, 19.7 PER, 20.1 WS, 10.6 VORP
Parker: 18.7/5.4/3.1 - 51% TS, 16.8 PER, 13.2 WS, 3.7 VORP

Best individual regular season:

Ginobili: 22.6/5.2/4.6 - 61% TS, 24.3 PER, 11.1 WS, 5.9 VORP
Parker: 22.2/8.3/3.3 - 59% TS, 23 PER, 9.3 WS, 2.6 VORP

Best individual playoff run:

Ginobili: 22.3/4.5/6.2 - 65% TS, 24.8 PER, 4.2 WS, 2.1 VORP
Parker: 20.3/6.9/3.2 - 52% TS, 21.5 PER, 2.4 WS, 0.9 VORP

--------------

Some of the career numbers probably took a hit for Gino due to the last few years, but still...

We're lucky to have had and still have both of these guys, tbh. They probably compare very well against other players at their position.

[eric365]

Peak Manu (2005) played with a Prime Tim Duncan.

Peak Tony (2013) played with great 2 way players but the offense was completely built around him and he took them to 30 sec of winning the championship
He destroyed Memphis in WCF that had 3 All NBA defensive including the DPOY with an offense completely buit around him

[EIC]

Some Per 36 stats, didn't see many stats posted...

Career regular season:

Ginobili: 19.2/5.4/5.0 - 59% TS, 20.9 PER, 101.2 WS, 45.5 VORP
Parker: 18.6/6.6/3.2 - 55% TS, 18.7 PER, 105.9 WS, 27.5 VORP

Career playoffs:

Ginobili: 18.4/4.9/5.2 - 58% TS, 19.7 PER, 20.1 WS, 10.6 VORP
Parker: 18.7/5.4/3.1 - 51% TS, 16.8 PER, 13.2 WS, 3.7 VORP

Best individual regular season:

Ginobili: 22.6/5.2/4.6 - 61% TS, 24.3 PER, 11.1 WS, 5.9 VORP
Parker: 22.2/8.3/3.3 - 59% TS, 23 PER, 9.3 WS, 2.6 VORP

Best individual playoff run:

Ginobili: 22.3/4.5/6.2 - 65% TS, 24.8 PER, 4.2 WS, 2.1 VORP
Parker: 20.3/6.9/3.2 - 52% TS, 21.5 PER, 2.4 WS, 0.9 VORP

--------------

Some of the career numbers probably took a hit for Gino due to the last few years, but still...

We're lucky to have had and still have both of these guys, tbh. They probably compare very well against other players at their position.

Good post. For the lay people among us, can you update your post with a legend for the acronyms ion the advanced stats?

[SASdynasty!]

Lol you have everything wrong, he scored 29 points on 27 ing shots,are you for real???? thats enough to kill your teammates and the game get your facts straight.
That same game Westchimp had 25 points on 17 shots, thats 10 less attemps, Parker never ever in any way outplayed Westchimp during that series, thats a fairy tale for kids.

Porker scored 12 on 15 shots during game 4 while a 35 year old Manu scored 34 points on game 5, I dont wanna think about 35 y/o Porker season in 2017/18.

Oh Parker in no way outplayed Westbrook in the series?

Parker: 21.5/6.3/3.8 on 48%, 55 TS%, 109 ORT, 15.1 GSC
Westbrook: 18.2/7.3/5.8 on 38%, 45 TS%, 96 ORT, 12.7 GSC

Hahaha wow, what series were you watching?

[SASdynasty!]

I didn't mind Porker willing the MVP, tbh. He played the cards he was dealt but that being his crowing achievement is a laughable.

2005 Manu would have averaged 35 if he was being guarded by Snow/Boobie Gibson.

Manu never averaged more than 22 in a playoff series in his career. But I'm sure he would put up 35, lol.

[SASdynasty!]

Too bad he was being guarded by Lebron, Manure

Your boy got torn the up by a shoeless Mike Miller lmao

Hahaha do these guys even watch the series?

[SASdynasty!]

Lebron occasionally guarded TP, lol TP . I even remember Lebron guarding Manu.

Hahahhahahhahahahhaha occasionally?! Who did Parker hit the game-sealing shot in G1 over? Who did he hit the game-tying 3 over in G6? Go watch the series again.

[SASdynasty!]

Tony's prime was good, tbh... nothing to be ashamed of there. It took Kawhi and an rejuvenated Manu to get us over the hump for #5, but he contributed, tbh...

Oh you mean Parker contributed by being the only All-Star and All-NBA player on the team? Or he contributed by leading us in scoring throughout the regular season, playoffs, and Finals? Or he contributed by leading us in assists throughout the regular season and Finals?

Lol, Manu led us in NOTHING that year. Kawhi led us in steals, that's it. Wow.

[SASdynasty!]

Prime Ginobili was a far more complete player, that is undeniable.
The fact that he played less minutes, and didn´t focused on get the "score" or "the assist" may resemble less his contributions. But parker never demanded double teams while Manu did. Parker was never able to do something special when teams game planned for him.

There is also something about your stats, you fail to compare each player in regular season/playoffs. It is a reality for all fans who have been here that historically Tony has had trouble sustaining his performance during the playoffs, while manu usually would surpass himself.

Also there is the matter of "oportunity" while Tony failed against the pistons and Manu failed against the Heat, Tony was lucky that manu and tim were able to hide that failure with a win. If not, tony would have probably been traded. When manu failed, no one ever bailed him out, neither in 2006 nor 2013, Parker was non existant in the final game. Tony on the other hand failed many times and was bailed by teammates, or excuses (like Manu injury in 2011). But the Parker show against Conley was a statment on hos undependable parker was in his prime.

Maybe, because fate is a , that is the reason while the best series tony had, against Miami in the 2013 finals, is the series the spurs couldnt win, but that is also an statement that when the team depended on Manu and Tim, they both could spare Tony, but when Tony had to spare manu, he couldnt, and failed, in his best Finals Series.

It´s really a discussion with no means, i believe Ginobili was more influential for a team than Parker, and around the legue i think that is the consensus, but this is a forum and is for posting opinions.

Hahaha are you serious:

Manu Ginobili:

Regular Season: 14.0/4.0 on 45%
Playoffs: 14.7/3.9 on 43%

Tony Parker:

Regular Season: 16.6/5.9 on 49%
Playoffs: 18.2/5.2 on 46%

Yah, Manu does so much better in the playoffs. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Oh, and Parker's best series was not against Miami bro. Phoenix 2008 (R1), Memphis 2013 (WCF), Cleveland 2007 (Finals) were all MUCH better series from Parker, all series the Spurs won BTW.

[SASdynasty!]

I'll admit that Thomas was a bit of a reach. That said, I'm not sure Westbrook has shot much better than Thomas and you'd be a fool to deny that Westbrook is a superior player to prime Parker. Regarding the second boldfaced point, can you name another player on the Celtics other than Thomas without Googling? I didn't think so. Prime Parker was surrounded by talent that Thomas can't even dream about.

I would take prime Parker all day over any version of Westbrook precisely because: (1) Westbrook is consistently one of the worst shooters in the league who shoots his team out of games and (2) who consistently chokes at the end of big games, especially in the playoffs. He literally puts Manu to shame with how bad his decisions are at the end of playoff games.

[SASdynasty!]

Some Per 36 stats, didn't see many stats posted...

Career regular season:

Ginobili: 19.2/5.4/5.0 - 59% TS, 20.9 PER, 101.2 WS, 45.5 VORP
Parker: 18.6/6.6/3.2 - 55% TS, 18.7 PER, 105.9 WS, 27.5 VORP

Career playoffs:

Ginobili: 18.4/4.9/5.2 - 58% TS, 19.7 PER, 20.1 WS, 10.6 VORP
Parker: 18.7/5.4/3.1 - 51% TS, 16.8 PER, 13.2 WS, 3.7 VORP

Best individual regular season:

Ginobili: 22.6/5.2/4.6 - 61% TS, 24.3 PER, 11.1 WS, 5.9 VORP
Parker: 22.2/8.3/3.3 - 59% TS, 23 PER, 9.3 WS, 2.6 VORP

Best individual playoff run:

Ginobili: 22.3/4.5/6.2 - 65% TS, 24.8 PER, 4.2 WS, 2.1 VORP
Parker: 20.3/6.9/3.2 - 52% TS, 21.5 PER, 2.4 WS, 0.9 VORP

--------------

Some of the career numbers probably took a hit for Gino due to the last few years, but still...

We're lucky to have had and still have both of these guys, tbh. They probably compare very well against other players at their position.

Hahahaha what a liar. Parker's best playoff run was that one? How about this one?

28.4/6.8/4.2 - 59% TS, 29.3 PER

And why not put USG%? Because Parker's during that run was 39.1 while Manu's was 26.3? Not an advanced stat that you want to see? I can start giving you some off the charts advanced stats for backup players like Manu that didn't have high usage percentages.

Oh and I love the VORP stat. Is that the one that values Clyde Drexler over Shaq, Kobe, & Dirk?

Also, win shares. Good one considering Bob Feerick, Neil Johnston, and Alex Groza all had more win shares than Steph Curry in his 73-win season. Seems reliable.

[r0drig0lac]

Manu and is not even close imo

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Regular season
Manu : TS% .573, OWS 57.8, WS/48 .200, OBPM 4.1, VORP 45.5, ORTG 113
Tony : TS% .550, OWS 63.5, WS/48 .147, OBPM 1.9, VORP 27.5, ORTG 109

Playoffs
Manu : TS% .580, OWS 11.9, WS/48 .169, OBPM 4.0, VORP 10.6, ORTG 112
Tony : TS% .514, OWS 6.9, WS/48 .084, OBPM 0.8, VORP 3.7, ORTG 103

Peaks
Regular season
Manu : TS% .612, OWS 6.6, WS/48 .246, OBPM 6.1, VORP 5.9, ORTG 118
Tony : TS% .588, OWS 7.1, WS/48 .206, OBPM 4.1, VORP 3.2, ORTG 116

Playoffs
Manu : TS% .652, OWS 3.0, WS/48 .260, OBPM 7.2, VORP 2.1, ORTG 124
Tony : TS% .549, OWS 1.7, WS/48 .152, OBPM 3.6, VORP 0.9, ORTG 108

*Excluding small sample sizes

[Chinook]

I'm not very inclined to give Manu rate stats when comparing his prime self to other players. He was a star, and if he didn't play as many minutes as other players, that's a slight against him. Tony being more durable and playing so many more minutes (and against starters) is definitely a factor in his favor.

Still looks like Manu is the better player, though.

[Perry Mason]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I think in 2007 TP was guarded not by Boobie the whole time but that Lebron also defended against him at critical times (perhaps the most critical times?).

If true the Boobie thing is a myth to slander TP.

[timtonymanu]

Obviously Manu. Just compare both and Manu's game has aged much better than Parker's. Not even going to credit SASdynasty! and those flawed raw stats he loves bringing up when Parker shot an abysmal 9/35 in Games 6 and 7.

[SASdynasty!]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I think in 2007 TP was guarded not by Boobie the whole time but that Lebron also defended against him at critical times (perhaps the most critical times?).

If true the Boobie thing is a myth to slander TP.

Only people who actually watched the series know Larry Hughes and Lebron were also on Parker (Lebron especially after Parker torched the other two). But even Lebron couldn't guard him.

[SASdynasty!]

Obviously Manu. Just compare both and Manu's game has aged much better than Parker's. Not even going to credit SASdynasty! and those flawed raw stats he loves bringing up when Parker shot an abysmal 9/35 in Games 6 and 7.

Wait are you using a raw stat (FG%) to discredit Parker when you just said you don't give credit to raw stats? Seems pretty consistent.

[MB20]

Tony was better at scoring and turnovers.
Manu was better at everything else