Bulls: Jordan, the role model

[ambchang]

Yeah, I do get what you are saying.

I'll admit that MJ's HOF speech was some of the most narcissistic sh1t I have ever seen in my life. We tend to let it slide because that flaw is part of what made him great in the first place. Same can be said for Kobe. I feel like the narrative is being re-written for him lately. If you didn't live through it, you'd never know he was high volume shooting, low percentage shot, ball hog, snitch(ratted out Shaq in Colorado) who selfishly pushed Shaq out of the way and then demanded a trade a few years later when he was drowning in mediocrity.

And lefty, you are correct, I watched that all star game lately and they did not freeze him out. He either made it up or he simply over estimated how much he was supposed to get the ball, being a young guy at the time. My guess is the latter.

Funny you brought up Kobe as they really are the same person. It’s odd how people kept talking about how they were the hardest workers in basketball as it players like bird, magic, hakeem, Duncan, Lebron just woke up one day and became great then magically sustained that excellence for years. They all freaking worked hard but jordan and Kobe used it as part of their marketing campaign to make it much more than reality. There are very few players who can just dominate because they are so physically dominant over everybody else, even someone like shaq had to work and improve.

Jordan and Kobe are just absolute narcissists and some of the mentally weaker crowd would just lap it up because the k oh way that fanbase can recognize greatness is to be force fed it.

[ambchang]

All this minor nitpicking about MJ when his "controversies" are like nothing compared to what half these modern day NBA stars do in terms of ting on teammates, coaches, front office, getting in legal trouble, etc. It's kind of quaint and adorable tbh

I wouldn’t call throwing the man who was your father figure and instrumental in your development to 20,000 wolves and be ridiculed on a lie you made up minor.

[Isitjustme?]

I wouldn’t call throwing the man who was your father figure and instrumental in your development to 20,000 wolves and be ridiculed on a lie you made up minor.

What section of TMZ was this on?

[Isitjustme?]

lefty collects vintage Nation Enquirers with Michael Jordan stories btw guise so if you have one contact him at [email protected] and you could maybe make some money

[lefty]

lefty collects vintage Nation Enquirers with Michael Jordan stories btw guise so if you have one contact him at [email protected] and you could maybe make some money

You might want to take MJ’s out of your moth bro
Not hating, just trying to help you tbh

[ambchang]

What section of TMZ was this on?

I wouldn’t flaunt it if I was this ignorant.

[MarCowMar]

First part is a lie, won’t address the rest. I will give an example the Indian culture in north Dallas particularly Frisco works like this but the giving back is not necessarily tied to donations. The expectations for the affluent is that they don’t marry out their race they put their family members through college if the parents can’t. They let other struggling new migrants even non family stay in their homes to save and establish themselves. They invest in communities heavily populated with Indians - opening Indian restaurants and markets. Plenty cultures expect their rich to give back in variou forms.

And MJ would have been rich without black support because he was a great player. But he doesn’t become a billionaire without their support either. Hip hop anointed him and the black culture loved him back when white dominated media called him a selfish ball hog and less than Larry Bird. Ironically it was blacks shooting each other over his shoes, that gave them some street cred and made people stand in long lines for them. And let’s be real young blacks have long been in America the arbiters over what us considered cool and fashionable and the success of Jordan’s as a cultural fashion piece that has built the resale shoe market owes a huge debt to Martin, Do the right thing, Jay Z and do many others hip hop or black media that have propped up $20 or less shoes as a $200 - $1000 commodity. To say the blacks gave him nothing is horse . He rode the culture obsessions with him and overpriced items to the Billionaire clubhouse.

But your social commentary was cute.
I do agree he doesn’t have to invest where he does not want it is his $$$.
But to say he got nothing in return?!

You observe talented people in other professions giving back to their communities through common sense investment in their neighborhoods and families. How do you believe that relates to the performative, ineffectual, and ridiculous community programs created by the likes of Adam Silver and David Stern? What logical hoops did you have to jump through to equate t-shirts, sneakers, energy drinks, and toys, distributed in foreign areas with no follow-up, with real financial and personal investment that builds long-term community prosperity? Why doesn't the league let NBA players perform charity on their own terms?

On what point do you imagine we are disagreeing?

[DMC]

lefty collects vintage Nation Enquirers with Michael Jordan stories btw guise so if you have one contact him at [email protected] and you could maybe make some money

I won't accept pesos.

[Killakobe81]

You observe talented people in other professions giving back to their communities through common sense investment in their neighborhoods and families. How do you believe that relates to the performative, ineffectual, and ridiculous community programs created by the likes of Adam Silver and David Stern? What logical hoops did you have to jump through to equate t-shirts, sneakers, energy drinks, and toys, distributed in foreign areas with no follow-up, with real financial and personal investment that builds long-term community prosperity? Why doesn't the league let NBA players perform charity on their own terms?

On what point do you imagine we are disagreeing?

1. Agree with charity on one’s own terms
2. Disagree the black community has not given to MJ since a large degree of his profits trace back to his success as a pitchman for shoes which started with love he received from the black community and the overvalue that culture places on overpriced brand names.
3. Again he is not REQUIRED to give back to his own community- but the narrative all they do is take undeserved hand outs from him is false, when his first big commercial was by a black film maker and made Jordan and his shoes more desirable in inner cities.

The black community started him on his path to billions he doesn’t make it without crossover acceptance by mainstream white media and culture but it started black first.

[MarCowMar]

1. Agree with charity on one’s own terms
2. Disagree the black community has not given to MJ since a large degree of his profits trace back to his success as a pitchman for shoes which started with love he received from the black community and the overvalue that culture places on overpriced brand names.
3. Again he is not REQUIRED to give back to his own community- but the narrative all they do is take undeserved hand outs from him is false, when his first big commercial was by a black film maker and made Jordan and his shoes more desirable in inner cities.

The black community started him on his path to billions he doesn’t make it without crossover acceptance by mainstream white media and culture but it started black first.

If you want to imagine that kids of other races wouldn't have bought MJ's products until black kids did...you can live in that reality if you're so inclined. I'd be hard pressed to disprove it and I suspect only a professional marketer could begin to model such a scenario.

But the characterization that the black community "gave" to MJ by buying his shoes is patently ridiculous. Buying shoes is a voluntary economic transaction. MJ refines his craft and sponsors products. People value his sponsorship and buy the products. This scenario happens billions of times every year across all imaginable demographics and product lines.

And while this thread originally related to MJ, my point was that it's ridiculous and insulting that athletes are REQUIRED to participate in league-directed, trashy pseudo charities that never amount to anything. Do you dispute that? Do you know of an NBA Cares program that has advanced a neighborhood on the level of the Frisco Indian communities you mentioned earlier, while using dramatically more financial resources?

[MarCowMar]

^ KK81 you’re missing the point. MCM is saying superior white peoples don’t do things like that, which is also false. MAGA, which he is likely a part of, regularly donates to their overlord trump and other white supremacist. Oh wait, maybe he’s right, instead of donating to the poor and needy and make life better for everyone, white supremacists like to donate to the rich to further suppress others and keep the donators in a cycle of mediocrity.

But then early Irish Americans and Italian Americans, who were heavily discriminated against based on their cultures and accents, regularly donated back to their communities. The issue isnt about race as it is about poverty, which the black community is subjected to because unlike accents and cultures don’t really just disappear after a couple of generations of blending in.

Straw men and projections. Let's sort through it.

"MCM is saying superior white peoples don’t do things like that"

MCM said that non-athletes don't have that bull , league-created, racial obligation. Non-athletes spend their money how they want and support what they want without league and media pressure.

"MAGA, which he is likely a part of, regularly donates to their overlord trump and other white supremacist. Oh wait, maybe he’s right, instead of donating to the poor and needy and make life better for everyone, white supremacists like to donate to the rich to further suppress others and keep the donators in a cycle of mediocrity. "

The point that you're choosing to ignore is that regardless of how I donate or spend my money, I don't have to do it in a League-directed way, and the players deserve that same financial independence.

It's hilarious to see you to delude yourself that MAGA are some kind of white supremacist, billionaire loving group. Maybe you should apprise yourself of the current political demographic trends. All races (excluding over-educated Karens) are leaving the Democratic plantation. And the billionaires are the ones backing the Democrats. Buffett, Pfizer, Moderna, Amazon, Google, Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos, Page, Brin, CNN/MSNBC/Fox/NPR/Post--they are on your side, not MAGA.

If you want a red pill research this simple Truth: Trump was richer when he went into office than he is now. How does that compare with the direction of personal fortunes of the politicians you currently support?

Is it possible you've been lied to?

[ambchang]

The whole concept of "giving back to the black community" is a load of bull . No other race has that ridiculous expectation.

Secondly, it's a false precept to imply the black community has given something to these athletes that needs to be repaid. Given what? Bad schools? Broken families? Abuse? Crime? Rampant drug use? Posses that drain their resources and get them into trouble? Degenerate hip hop culture? The black community far more often drags these athletes down than helps them up.

Jordan is a role model by refining his craft to the highest level and it made him a role model for humanity as a whole.

He and every other elite athlete has more than paid their way and deserves to retain and spend their earnings how they wish, without pressure from a league or a parasitic "community". Stern and Silver and every other hypocritical commissioner for pressuring athletes with this trash obligation. They rob their salary and rob them again with this obligation, then the media mock the athletes for being broke--like they had no part in it.

Straw men and projections. Let's sort through it.

"MCM is saying superior white peoples don’t do things like that"

MCM said that non-athletes don't have that bull , league-created, racial obligation. Non-athletes spend their money how they want and support what they want without league and media pressure.

"MAGA, which he is likely a part of, regularly donates to their overlord trump and other white supremacist. Oh wait, maybe he’s right, instead of donating to the poor and needy and make life better for everyone, white supremacists like to donate to the rich to further suppress others and keep the donators in a cycle of mediocrity. "

The point that you're choosing to ignore is that regardless of how I donate or spend my money, I don't have to do it in a League-directed way, and the players deserve that same financial independence.

It's hilarious to see you to delude yourself that MAGA are some kind of white supremacist, billionaire loving group. Maybe you should apprise yourself of the current political demographic trends. All races (excluding over-educated Karens) are leaving the Democratic plantation. And the billionaires are the ones backing the Democrats. Buffett, Pfizer, Moderna, Amazon, Google, Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos, Page, Brin, CNN/MSNBC/Fox/NPR/Post--they are on your side, not MAGA.

If you want a red pill research this simple Truth: Trump was richer when he went into office than he is now. How does that compare with the direction of personal fortunes of the politicians you currently support?

Is it possible you've been lied to?

League directed way is the only way people can give back to the community? You were saying something about strawman?

The media is lying to us: check.

I’m waiting for the lizard people.

[FrostKing]

If you want to imagine that kids of other races wouldn't have bought MJ's products until black kids did...you can live in that reality if you're so inclined. I'd be hard pressed to disprove it and I suspect only a professional marketer could begin to model such a scenario.

But the characterization that the black community "gave" to MJ by buying his shoes is patently ridiculous. Buying shoes is a voluntary economic transaction. MJ refines his craft and sponsors products. People value his sponsorship and buy the products. This scenario happens billions of times every year across all imaginable demographics and product lines.

And while this thread originally related to MJ, my point was that it's ridiculous and insulting that athletes are REQUIRED to participate in league-directed, trashy pseudo charities that never amount to anything. Do you dispute that? Do you know of an NBA Cares program that has advanced a neighborhood on the level of the Frisco Indian communities you mentioned earlier, while using dramatically more financial resources?

I remembered this post from a few days ago

Michael Jordan never projected black culture. His lasting image and Post career success was categorized by it. But did MJ ever display it? Golf, cigars, white buddies, baseball, and strong family.

Jordan hated what "black America" turned into displaying his logo on a shoe.

[FrostKing]

Michael never claimed that role so why should he try to change or defend.

He was raised different and smarter. He recognized he could shape more minds with his approach...

And that is this generations Babe Ruth. Probably more. Everyone all over this World recognizes and loves this black man. Any social place I've been there is always someone Bulls jersey. Dat red.

[KingKev]

Jordan the GOAT.

Great guy off court also.