Shams: Boston Celtics are trading C/F Noah Vonleh and cash consideration to the San Antonio Spurs

[mo7888]

True..but SA has now done SEVERAL trades with BOS and I would say they have all worked in SA favor…

Yup...and building up good will doesn't work against you in any scenario...

[DPG21920]

I think it’s clear what was going on…it was the SA side some why trades were not happening. Even when it made sense to us and everyone around the league SA was a massive outlier in trades.

It was not just other teams playing hardball with SA, it was SA being reluctant to do trading. That is the one thing I am most optimistic with regards to Wright; he has done more wheeling and dealing than RC ever did and seems very solid in his ability to get deals done.

It’s why I am expecting 1-2 more deals for SA this deadline.

[heyheymymy]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

I disagree. Trump did not have great policies that lifted everyone up.

Tax cuts and jobs act 2018 trump borrowed debt to give a tax break to people who were already rich.

How about trumps 2020 cares act which siphoned tax money to oil companies and reactivated NOL carry backs while average Americans struggled with the pandemic.

[bluebellmaniac]

So basically we bought good will

Basically. Which is a really good thing for greasing the wheels for something you need later on.

[spurraider21]

I think it’s clear what was going on…it was the SA side some why trades were not happening. Even when it made sense to us and everyone around the league SA was a massive outlier in trades.

It was not just other teams playing hardball with SA, it was SA being reluctant to do trading. That is the one thing I am most optimistic with regards to Wright; he has done more wheeling and dealing than RC ever did and seems very solid in his ability to get deals done.

It’s why I am expecting 1-2 more deals for SA this deadline.

lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying " , if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

[exstatic]

lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying " , if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.

[scott]

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.

Correct all around, though I'm sure there are some very clear cut profitability objectives in place for Spurs management - so this move wisely aligns with those objectives.

I'm more amazed at the 6pages of thought that have gone into this trade... which may be more than the Celtics or Spurs put into this meaningless trade

[spurraider21]

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.

ah yes thats the important point here

i should have said "ownership" instead of "the owner"

ethered

[DPG21920]

lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying " , if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

I wasn’t takin about this deal. It was in reference to the spurs doing favors point and it not paying off for them. Was saying it was mostly their own doing I believe and it’s a fact Wright is making trades at a higher frequency than RC was. Lots of that is to do with timing & status of team but he’s doing it. He’s not ignoring trades and only focusing on draft and limited Fa like we are used to.

[ambchang]

No...that's not right... when a person starts a small business they usually invest everything into it..their money, their heart, and their soul. That's a real investment. I'm more of a real estate guy. I know many people who are millionaires that became that way through real estate investing. As for multinationals, you have guys like Blackrock who've bought untold billions in real estate recently and they intend to profit on that investment but, alot of people bought those same properties earlier and profited themselves by selling to Blackrock and then they invest those monies in other assets.

I see two things that has come from this discussion..1) the ignorance from people who don't realize what wealth is or how it's created and 2) an underlying gripe about the system (tax and regulatory) that seems unfair to them. The first part I don't sympathize with at all but the 2nd I empathize with greatly. Rules are established to favor the ultra wealthy but, regular people who are smart and hard working enough can find niches in that same system to game it for their own personal gain. Should it be that way? No, it shouldn't ..the playing field should be level for everyone but it's not and it's not going to change with Socialist Democrats and Populist/status quo Republicans in charge. I've personally found the best way to operate is to play their system and win while advocating for change from that very system.

To each his own though...

I want someone that money too but how do people get money to invest in the first place?

[mo7888]

I want someone that money too but how do people get money to invest in the first place?

I'm my case after I got out of college I cut my spending to the bone and saved enough for a down-payment on my first property and got a loan from a local bank for the rest.

[ambchang]

I'm my case after I got out of college I cut my spending to the bone and saved enough for a down-payment on my first property and got a loan from a local bank for the rest.

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

[Mr. Body]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

No, most people can't do this, especially with inflation and wages so low. It's the reason why home ownership is extremely low for younger generations. They've been boxed out. Saving money at all is extremely hard for most.

[heyheymymy]

and then you have real estate speculation exploding so even if you can somehow outpace stagnate wages monetized society and increasing cost of living to save up enough for a house you get outbid by hustlers with crazy cash offers $50,000 over asking that you can't compete with.

[ismael-robert]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

[mo7888]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

I didn't have student loans but I did have a Pell grant that covered most of the tuition and I worked in the summers and summers before college saving to get the rest. As for my job, I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in the school of forestry and went into business for myself immediately. I did pretty well and made about 60k my first year. Understand that was 1992-93 so 60k was a pretty good bit back then.

[mo7888]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

That's actually pretty close.... my first real estate purchase was a residential lot and I built a home on it to sell...lot and all back then was around $65k..so the down-payment was about $15k

[JPB]

Correct all around, though I'm sure there are some very clear cut profitability objectives in place for Spurs management - so this move wisely aligns with those objectives.

I'm more amazed at the 6pages of thought that have gone into this trade... which may be more than the Celtics or Spurs put into this meaningless trade

That's how exciting this season is, tbh.

[Joseph Kony]

this thread turned me into a communist

[KingKev]

this thread turned me into a communist

Coach Pop thanks you for the support.

[CGD]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

Something in the 2000s definitely changed. It explains why mo7888’s experiences and yours can both be right. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the rising cost of higher education — coupled with years of browbeating an entire generation of kids/parents that higher education is the path to the middle class —timed perfectly with the 2008-09 financial crisis isn’t one of the key culprits. It’s less clear to me what explains that very clear shift, but the student loan situation that has followed has definitely altered the live choices of an entire generation of Americans including whether to start families which is a tragedy in my book.

[mo7888]

Something in the 2000s definitely changed. It explains why mo7888’s experiences and yours can both be right. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the rising cost of higher education — coupled with years of browbeating an entire generation of kids/parents that higher education is the path to the middle class —timed perfectly with the 2008-09 financial crisis isn’t one of the key culprits. It’s less clear to me what explains that very clear shift, but the student loan situation that has followed has definitely altered the live choices of an entire generation of Americans including whether to start families which is a tragedy in my book.

Excellent post

[ambchang]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

$10k down. Where can you get that? 1972? With our real estate laws it’s at least 20% down, anything less there are additional insurances on the mortgage which makes the costs of borrowing even higher. Besides, with anything less than that the term will be some thing significantly longer than 25 years (unless you have a great job and can afford a high monthly payment). Which doesn’t make this much of an investment because there’s little you can leverage from it. $650k for a one bedroom condo is the norm now, after the mortgage there’s still utilities and condo fees. I’m not sure much you guys make.

[ambchang]

I didn't have student loans but I did have a Pell grant that covered most of the tuition and I worked in the summers and summers before college saving to get the rest. As for my job, I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in the school of forestry and went into business for myself immediately. I did pretty well and made about 60k my first year. Understand that was 1992-93 so 60k was a pretty good bit back then.

60k a year is crazy money for a fresh grad in 1992. It’s unlikely for most fresh grads to even get a job paying $60k a year even today. It is also not likely people can get Pell grants. It’s even less likely that people can get paid $60k a year now, even if they have the fortunate financial family support to live at home afterwards (which most people won’t have), to save up for down payment. After taxes and normal living expenses, it would be fortunate to save up $35k a year and that is assuming you’re pretty much leeching off mom and dad and paying nothing in utilities and rent and even minimal groceries. With a condo cost of $600k and a down payment of 20% ($120k), it would take about 4 years to save that up. Once you move out, you have a $480k mortgage. At 5% at 25 years your monthly payment is about $2800 per month, which means you are paying about $34k in mortgage on a $60k salary over 25 years, which leaves you nothing for clothes and groceries and utilities and condo fees after taxes. And this is just the investment property so there is another property somewhere you live in. I’m not sure how you make it work back then, let alone now, granted condos back then were about $150k each which makes the math much easier. So the suggestion for todays kids is to invent a Time Machine

[mo7888]

60k a year is crazy money for a fresh grad in 1992. It’s unlikely for most fresh grads to even get a job paying $60k a year even today. It is also not likely people can get Pell grants. It’s even less likely that people can get paid $60k a year now, even if they have the fortunate financial family support to live at home afterwards (which most people won’t have), to save up for down payment. After taxes and normal living expenses, it would be fortunate to save up $35k a year and that is assuming you’re pretty much leeching off mom and dad and paying nothing in utilities and rent and even minimal groceries. With a condo cost of $600k and a down payment of 20% ($120k), it would take about 4 years to save that up. Once you move out, you have a $480k mortgage. At 5% at 25 years your monthly payment is about $2800 per month, which means you are paying about $34k in mortgage on a $60k salary over 25 years, which leaves you nothing for clothes and groceries and utilities and condo fees after taxes. And this is just the investment property so there is another property somewhere you live in. I’m not sure how you make it work back then, let alone now, granted condos back then were about $150k each which makes the math much easier. So the suggestion for todays kids is to invent a Time Machine

I hear where you're coming from on this but it sounds like you're looking at buying something in your area that you might want to live in. That's not what my focus was. I was looking strictly for things I could invest in to increase my net worth. If I were starting from scratch today I wouldn't be looking at a $600k property to start with. I'd focus on eliminating my bad debt (and all debt isn't bad despite what some pundits say) and focus on building up my cash reserves. I'd probably park it somewhere safe with a steady return (RYLD stock symbol or something similar for instance..but keep it diversified) so I can build on my cash while adding to my reserves. Then I'd look for properties I could buy with cash flow attached. That could be residential or small commercial. I'd spend time between now and when my reserves were built up to educate myself on different markets around the country. There are places where you can get properties much less than those around you and honestly much less than those around where I live now. If you're smart and determined you can build generational wealth even with some of the things stacked against you from a government/ regulatory point of view.

Remember a couple things here (and understand I'm not debating with you I'm just trying to impart some of my history and what I've done so hopefully you can find something in there that gives you confidence and helps you going forward...because this is not my normal message board topic) 1) All things are relative, so even though prices are inflated today so are rents. So there's a balance between price and cash flow you need to focus on. Keep that in your mind at all times. 2) once you break the barrier of entrance and get in you'll grow from there. What seems like a large investment now will seem small in 10 years as you grow. 3) Focus on and find enjoyment in the 'deal' not the money. If you just want money and don't enjoy the deal you'll stop to soon and won't reach your potential. Educate yourself and find pleasure in the 'deal'. 4) Remember that a deal requires two to tango and its only a good deal if everyone walks away from the table with something they feel good about. Why? Because you're gonna want to do future deals with that person and you'll get better ones if they feel good about working with you.

I've done this and grown for 30 years now (52 years old). I've expanded from residential real estate to commercial and rural real estate (with a focus on timber holdings), then I went into Wetland Banks (you can Google what they are if you aren't familiar) and even a few intellectual properties, but it all started with that first house I borrowed about $65k for and sold for about $80k. I hope you (and anyone else who reads this) can have the right at ude and pull something from my experiences to improve your own financial standing.

Don't dwell on the barriers to entry....focus on the opportunity and solutions to any issues you face personally.

I wish you much luck going forward...