Spurs Trade Rumor Thread (Spurs eyeing Collins, Osman? Fielding calls on Jak?)

[XDT76]

Johnson is not playing PF out of necessity. The Spurs have gotten rid of almost all of their forwards and seemingly were looking for a guard in return for White regardless. I agree about the rest of the post, but dude is a four, and if he played with some bulky 6-9 guy next to him, the Spurs would be playing two PFs.

He has the build and speed of a PF but the size of a SG. He is a very good player but has glaring issues when he play either forward position. When he play PF he is unable to provide internal and help defense and defensive rebound. When he is playing SF, he is easily blown by and forcing other players to rotate to help cover him.

[PhantomDashCam]

Not being a keeper doesn't mean DW isn’t a good player....it just means he's not who we should build around based on age and style of play next to others on the team....it's not a knock on him...

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

[Chinook]

I don’t agree with this at all.
Derrick wasn’t traded because he wasn’t a keeper, he was traded because the package was in the Spurs favour when thinking of the team’s current standings and ceiling moving forward.

So White was traded because he wasn't a keeper. If he was a keeper, they would not have traded him. That doesn't mean White is bad (I actually still think he could've been the best player on the Spurs), but the Spurs realized they had to start moving guys rather than just keeping anyone who wasn't terrible.

Keldon has already improved tremendously as a perimeter shooter, in an off-season with Olympic duties and significant team turnover. Why are we betting against him shedding a few lbs and improving his perimeter Defense?

Johnson's a PF. He's not even a particularly agile PF. So hopefully he does get better at perimeter defense and all that, but him doing so doesn't just make him a three. It's like how people thought his shooting is what made him a four, when in reality a lot of PFs can shoot at a good clip and passable shooting is just a requirement for the job in most cases.

KJ may always be somewhat of a tweener but that’s no reason to move him.

I think you've gotten yourself in a bit of a quandary. If you think White was moved because they got good value out of him, I don't know why you assume they wouldn't get the same for Johnson (for many of the same reasons). I also don't know why you assume the Spurs being willing to move Keldon is the same thing as they dumping him immediately. For the most part, trades do not work the way you seem to believe they do, or at least believe I think they do. Trades are not a punishment visited upon bad players. They are not something that good players or those with potential can avoid. They are just a consequence of a team trying to improve their position.

My argument is that the Spurs have to consider their PF position (and arguably their entire front court) unresolved rather than trying to make Johnson work as a matter of course. From what I've seen, they have little interest in getting bigger wings onto their roster to even entertain Keldon moving down, so arguing that I am the one "not giving him a chance" feels wrong. The Spurs have had numerous opportunities to play bigger lineups, including trading one of their redundant guards for a forward. It didn't have to be Collins, and I frankly wasn't expecting it to be. But it wasn't even a guy like Grant Williams, who's actually a very fascinating utility forward despite his own height. I don't think the team is interested in playing Johnson at any other position, and to be honest, I don't disagree with them. What I want, though, is for them to realize that there are other PFs out there. Not just vets like Collins, but there are a ton of the in the draft as well.

Keldon, both as an individual and as a starter, isn't the end-all/be-all of the team. That doesn't mean that he can't keep improving. That doesn't mean he can't be a Spur for life who plays a prominent role. But it does mean that the Spurs need to keep looking for their foundation. At best, Murray is part of it. If so, it's just him for now. Vassell, Johnson, Primo and the pick -- maybe something comes of them -- but until/unless that happens, they aren't those guys. The Spurs are rebuilding, not reloading. They don't have safe ground in sight right now. They accepted that the Murray/White pairing wasn't stable enough to build with. They need to maintain that insight going forward until proven otherwise.

[baseline bum]

Gotta hand it to Toronto-- they've managed their team very well for a number of years now. The Kawhi trade was a daring one, and resulted in a championship-- and then post-championship, they eventually lost 5 of their top 7 players from that team-- Kawhi, Lowry, Danny Green, Serge, Gasol-- and only had one down year as a result, going 27-45 before bouncing back this year to be in the playoff hunt again. I really hope Thaddeus has a good playoff run with them because he deserves it after being stuck in a pretty tough situation, sitting on the bench for a tanking team, watching guys like Eubanks, Forbes, & Walker get more minutes than him. Just look at the disparity in the evaluation of his game: In San Antonio, there was actually a Thad vs Eubanks discussion, but for Toronto Thad was worthy of a FRP while Eubanks was immediately waived as nothing more than trade fodder... It's understandable that the Spurs were in rebuild mode, but also understandable that Thad would've been upset wasting half a season this late in his career...

I hope Thaddeus has a huge regular season so the Spurs get their pick. I could give a about their postseason.

[Chinook]

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

So this is you reading way too much into things. The Spurs arguably don't have any keepers on the roster right now, and I think they have 15 NBA players, a number of whom would be solid or better starters. They're not in a place where being an NBA-caliber rotation player means they Spurs should keep them. The Spurs are the ones who aren't good enough right now to truly extract value from them, not the players themselves.

Of course you can define it however you want, but I'm not going to accept your framing of it in how it applies to my usage. You may think you have to basically fail out of Spurs Academy to qualify, but I very directly do not.

[baseline bum]

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

[duncan2150]

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

+1

[r0drig0lac]

nah they just need a real PF so Keldon can slide to SF and McDermott goes to the bench. That would fix most issues on this team

this

[PhantomDashCam]

So White was traded because he wasn't a keeper. If he was a keeper, they would not have traded him. That doesn't mean White is bad (I actually still think he could've been the best player on the Spurs), but the Spurs realized they had to start moving guys rather than just keeping anyone who wasn't terrible…

If you think White was moved because they got good value out of him, I don't know why you assume they wouldn't get the same for Johnson (for many of the same reasons).

I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

[dbestpro]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

[CGD]

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

I think the best outcome under the cir stances for Team and player is to trade Lonnie for another misfit/underperformer from his draft that also didn’t get extended. As an example only, a swap of Lonnie for Knox could give each other a needed sea change.

[mo7888]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

If it makes you feel better about the semantics of the situation just know DW is a "keeper" for the Celtics.... that should be comforting....like a warm blanket in the winter time...

[CGD]

Just reading some of the scuttlebutt I missed from the deadline, and thought it was very noteworthy that Pacer and Suns had talks about Ayton-Sabonis.

Something is off with that Ayton situation in Phoenix, and hop our guys are keeping tabs.

[rankingtear]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.

Or that he could guard other SGs.

[dbestpro]

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.

That's a given but the plays called can create those isolations. By referring to SG is just a means to refer to forcing the opposition into mismatches where Keldon has the advantage rather than making him go up against bigs.

[rankingtear]

That's a given but the plays called can create those isolations. By referring to SG is just a means to refer to forcing the opposition into mismatches where Keldon has the advantage rather than making him go up against bigs.

I don't see the correlation of being a SG and forcing a switch into a smaller player. It's not like being a PF prevents you from forcing a switch to a smaller player, teams do it all the time.

[John B]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

Vassell will already be doing that with his smaller defender

[exstatic]

I think the best outcome under the cir stances for Team and player is to trade Lonnie for another misfit/underperformer from his draft that also didn’t get extended. As an example only, a swap of Lonnie for Knox could give each other a needed sea change.

That would have been a good outcome at the deadline, but both of their contracts will expire this summer, and I doubt either team would be interested in a S&T.

[CGD]

That would have been a good outcome at the deadline, but both of their contracts will expire this summer, and I doubt either team would be interested in a S&T.

Makes sense. Do you think there are better odds of SA simply not tendering LW the QO (or pulling it later), than them holding on to him one more year?

[Chinook]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

I'd still argue the Celtics underpaid for White. I don't think the Spurs should have traded him at this point and have said as much multiple times. Still doesn't make White a keeper in the context I said it. The same was true for George Hill back in 2011, and he also went for a big haul to a team that considered him a finishing piece for their talented wing group. The point of the "diatribe" I went on was me making the case for the Spurs not being able to define being a keeper in the same way that you want them to or Boston or Indy in 2011 might have done.

If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

This doesn't make sense. The difference between us isn't that I am being "binary" and you're not. It's that you have a different place in the sliding scale you designate for that term. Samanic and White can both "not be keepers" while Sam is a guy you cut if you need a spot and White is a guy you trade for value. This is obvious because if you moved it down to your line, White would be a keeper you'd trade and Murray would be a keeper you don't. If anything, it makes much more sense to use the term to mean players you ... you know, keep, without worrying about how you go about not keeping the others. The Spurs are going to be cycling through talent for a bit. They can't afford to label everyone who's not bad a keeper. They don't have the roster spot, let alone developmental priority slots, to let guys get entrenched who aren't part of the foundation. Again, that doesn't mean treating all of them the same, but it does mean continuing to try to improve and not letting them dictate the rest of the rotation.

Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

I actually think talk of Murray being a two is dumb and have always said so. I think the distinction between the two positions wasn't going to resolve any of Murray's issues.

Anyways, I'm not the one or at least the main one who is pigeonholing Johnson. I do think he's an obvious PF and isn't particularly close to changing that. But I also think that Pop believes that, and my initial contribution to this discussion was commenting on how averse the Spurs seem to be about getting other PFs on the roster in order to try to move Johnson to SF. People keep saying he's only playing there out of necessity, and that's not true. The Spurs have had plenty of chances to put a bigger PF there, and they just don't want to do it. If you think about all of the players the Spurs have moved on from this season, the bulk of them are PFs or combo front-court players of some variety. The Spurs are the ones deliberately creating this situation where Johnson is the PF. I don't see any reason to believe it's Johnson's or PATFO's ambition to get Keldon to play SF. Just like Murray playing the two, Johnson playing the three is part of some fan's wishes, but not necessarily something that's going to happen.

[Degoat]

You know I’ve been thinking and I may be off but I think the spurs may have improved the team not only in the long term but the short term too at the trade deadline lol the fact that Eubanks is gone and won’t be seeing any time on the floor is a big positive for the team this season and DWhite was probably my favorite player but even he himself had several stinker games this year

[John B]

^ Keldon is defending the other teams PF true. But on offense, his back is not towards the basket like a PF, but rather stays around perimeters, not a mere stretch 4 but often driving like a SF. While I’ve seen him meet and defend smaller players on half court with gusto exerting as much lateral movement his feet allow. I think he relishes to be a great defender like Bowen, Kawhi, not exclusively a 3 and D per se, but he already got that 3 going.

I think it’s inevitable that they slide him to 3. Watching him guard Galo says it all. Pop finally saved him by subs uting KBD in. Keldon is overpowered as a PF, and the defense suffers especially with Poeltl overhelping and leaving his guy for a dunk. Rebounding, Spurs got killed last night. I think it’s critical to address that PF position this off-season either by draft or trade, slide Keldon to SF where he’s hitting 3’s better than McD, and put a good size PF at 4.

[NickiRasgo]

Funny thing is Zach played slightly better than John statistically like literally by 1-2 per each category.

[BackHome]

You know I’ve been thinking and I may be off but I think the spurs may have improved the team not only in the long term but the short term too at the trade deadline lol the fact that Eubanks is gone and won’t be seeing any time on the floor is a big positive for the team this season and DWhite was probably my favorite player but even he himself had several stinker games this year

Tank 2023 OH YEAH