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  1. #1
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Hi. Became a fan in 03 after watching Tim Duncan live at 10 year old, became my favorite player ever from that point on. Watched Spurs at least playoffs and most national television games from 04-2014. Then just the playoffs from 2014 until Duncan retired. I was excited for the next Kawhi era and was tired of Parker (though still loved Ginobili and Duncan when they retired) and ofcourse that Kawhi happened, and it kind of soured me on Basketball. I've caught the playoffs the last two years of our team / bubble / a game here and there, I am enjoying some of the young youth that I saw in our bubble games/this year, who I haven't really experienced since Kawhi left us hanging.

    So my question is, do we suck? Am I looking in rose tinted glasses? I know a lot of trolling happens on here, but I want to know from a more reputable poster how things are looking for us? Treadmill for a long time? Actually have some young core that we can surround with a superstar talent and be contenders because I personally like Vassel and Keldon Johnson, the two I've seen the most of the guys I had no prior knowledge about before this year. (besides Keldon in the bubble). And I think DJM and White are both solid starters, maybe White even an all-star-level sixth man like Ginobili or Crawford.

    Edit: I don't like Lonnie at all, not sure what people see in him. Only one of our young guys I don't like.

    Thanks for anyone who took the time to read! Trying to figure out the state of our team. Lots of dumbass trolling and extremes being thrown around everywhere now and I won't front, I don't know a lot about basketball. I just enjoy to watch it, and try my best to follow every play.
    Last edited by Rosewood; 07-02-2021 at 10:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    Duncan retired.

    Ginobili retired.

    Parker left, then retired.

    Kawhi betrayed us.

    LaMarcus bailed.

    Pop stopped caring.

    DeRozan is what we thought he was, and is probably headed elsewhere.

    Now the team is led by a bunch of late first rounders, an 18th pick who only shows up half the time, a bigman with no post game, and one lottery pick that is just trying to break out of the rookie treatment.

    Oh, and we have some cap-space which will probably be wasted this summer, and the draft is in a few weeks.

    Did I miss anything?
    Last edited by Dex; 07-02-2021 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    Duncan retired.

    Ginobili retired.

    Parker left, then retired.

    Kawhi betrayed us.

    LaMarcus bailed.

    Pop stopped caring.

    DeRozan is what we thought he was, and is probably headed elsewhere.

    Now the team is led by a bunch of late first rounders, an 18th pick who only shows up half the time, a bigman with no post game, and one lottery pick that is just trying to break out of the rookie treatment.

    Oh, and we have some cap-space which will probably be wasted this summer, and the draft is in a few weeks.

    Did I miss anything?
    Looks about right. You get an A+.

  4. #4
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Duncan retired.

    Ginobili retired.

    Parker left, then retired.

    Kawhi betrayed us.

    LaMarcus bailed.

    Pop stopped caring.

    DeRozan is what we thought he was, and is probably headed elsewhere.

    Now the team is led by a bunch of late first rounders, an 18th pick who only shows up half the time, a bigman with no post game, and one lottery pick that is just trying to break out of the rookie treatment.

    Oh, and we have some cap-space which will probably be wasted this summer, and the draft is in a few weeks.

    Did I miss anything?
    thanks Dex, been lurking here for years and years so always get a kick out of your posts.

    Kinda knew most of that, but I was wanting to know more the unbias view on our future. Because I know it's real easy to be pessimistic after a big dynasty run. Are we in position to be a contender anytime soon?

  5. #5
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    thanks Dex, been lurking here for years and years so always get a kick out of your posts.

    Kinda knew most of that, but I was wanting to know more the unbias view on our future. Because I know it's not real easy to be pessimistic after a big dynasty run. Are we in position to be a contender anytime soon?
    Completely unbiased view, we could be the Sacramento Kings for the next 5+ years or we could suck for the next 2-3 years and make the playoffs again after that.

    Reasons to be the Kings or to have hope and make playoffs in 3 years: ownership is a big question mark. They pissed off Timvp already this year. Do they continue to meddle and be cheap or was this a one time my bad type of thing and they just let basketball people make basketball decisions? We don’t know

    GM: we have no idea if Brian Wright is competent at his job. We also don’t know how much power he really has atm. He hasn’t really done anything that says that he is good or bad. He picked up LMAs option for no reason other than him to go to the Nets. He didn’t re-sign DDR but he didn’t trade him either. Is letting him walk for nothing a good move or a bad one? Will he re-sign him? Signing Gay to his deal was a bad one too. Poeltl was a good sign for a back up center. And White and DJ are under nice contracts. Is he capable of making a trade? Or do we just continue to lose our players for nothing. We don’t know.

    Coaching : Pop has clearly not adapted well to the modern NBA. In an era of 3 ball he has gone iso midrange game. That in itself isn’t a killer but when we are constantly getting out scored by like 8 threes a game, that is hard to overcome. Defensively this team looks lost and has no idea how to play it. At some point that is on the coach. We don’t really have that many horses though and Pop will always rely on his vets over the young guys. Is this a good quality or a bad one? Dunno. How many years left does Pop have in him? Was this his last year? Is next year his last? Do we have any good assistant coaches left? How much coaching up can Pop really do with a team of no all stars and all
    under 25? Is there a replacement plan at all for when Pop leaves. Dunno.

    Players: we have zero players that are going to be all stars next year. We aren’t expected to sign one either. We will have the least amount of pure talent when going up against most nba teams. Our players range from B- to C- Will any of the youth evolve into something better than that? Odds are no but we don’t know. And for those who wish to have hope, maybe DJ and KJ learn how to shoot 3s, Poeltl learns how to shoot from beyond 3 feet, Lonnie becomes assertive, and White stays healthy. If all these things happen we will have a very fun and young team to watch. Kinda like last years Pelicans sans the obvious all star in Zion. Maybe we draft an athletic wing player or a mobile big who can defend and rim run. Maybe we draft a shooter who opens up the floor for our bench squad. Maybe we sign a good free agent or two and they fit in perfectly. But as of now, we have no idea if any of these things will happen

    We are at a cross roads where potentially all 4 facets of our team goes south in ownership, GM, coaching, and players. This would set our franchise back atleast half a decade. At the same time we could have all the right people in place, find the right replacement for Pop and all the stars align and our youth takes gigantic leaps. maybe we win the lottery next year and draft a Luka type player. Our future is one that nobody knows and really if you’re optimistic or pessimistic you can’t say for 100% certainty that you are right.

    P.S. we also have the worst future in our division

  6. #6
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Yeah we suck

  7. #7
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    thanks Dex, been lurking here for years and years so always get a kick out of your posts.

    Kinda knew most of that, but I was wanting to know more the unbias view on our future. Because I know it's real easy to be pessimistic after a big dynasty run. Are we in position to be a contender anytime soon?
    KobesAchilles pretty much summed it up.

    I think that once Pop leaves, the Spurs are on the path of being a treadmill team for the foreseeable future.

    I would say three things needs to happen for San Antonio to truly become contenders again: they need to strike gold in the draft (be great to get another Duncan, but even another Kawhi would suffice), they need to bring in a high-level free agent with all of this cap maneuvering they've been doing, and at least two of our current young bucks need to take the next step (DJ, White, KJ, Lonnie, Vassell). For all of that to come together, I think we are at least two or three years away and that's being generous.

    If at least two of those three things happens, San Antonio would probably back in the playoff race but still not a true contender.

    If one or less happens, we're stuck on our current trajectory unless Miracle Max can work up one of those miracle pills.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a quick path back to glory from where we are right now.

    That's mostly Kawhi's fault by dismantling a contender, but Kawhi didn't make the front office draft a bunch of guards who are neither great shooters or great passers.
    Last edited by Dex; 07-03-2021 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #8
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    I think that once Pop leaves, the Spurs are on the path of being a treadmill team for the foreseeable future.

    I would say three things needs to happen for San Antonio to truly become contenders again: they need to strike gold in the draft (be great to get another Duncan, but even another Kawhi would suffice), they need to bring in a high-level free agent with all of this cap maneuvering they've been doing, and at least two of our current young bucks need to take the next step (DJ, White, KJ, Lonnie, Vassell). For all of that to come together, I think we are at least two or three years away and that's being generous.
    They've been that since S bag quit and intentionally tanked his value.

    We'll be lucky to see it again in our lifetimes.

  9. #9
    44-50-21-1 Biggems's Avatar
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    Unfortunately we do not suck, well not enough anyway. We are bad enough to barely miss the playoffs and end up at the end of the lottery. The last two seasons, had we simply played like we did in 96-97, we could have gotten some legit talent, either via the draft, or via trade for the draft capital. Unfortunately, we will always be an afterthought for most quality free agents. We really have no high end trade value. Our winning reputation was what we had and even that, along with playing next to Duncan, didn't really draw anyone of clout down here. Had Nephew not ed us over, we would be in a lot better shape right now, but not sure how much, considering that he seems to always be hurt now.

    I am a fan of Lonnie, if he would be more aggressive. When he plays passive on offense, he struggles. KJ needs to become more consistent with his shot. White is made of glass, unfortunately. Murray is the one I am not sold on. He has been too up and down for my taste. IMO, he would thrive in a place like PHX or GS, two offenses that are up and down and chuck at will. If we were able to trade anyone, I would try to trade Murray and possibly White. Unfortunately, I doubt we would be able to trade either of them.

  10. #10
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I’m not a refutable poster but my take. Our record the last two seasons were aftermath of the Khawi debacle. Pop had to patch around the odd combinations of mid-range players Demar, Aldridge and offensive challenged Poeltl, in a heavy 3pt scoring league. Aldridge is gone, Demar is a FA and Poeltl, well I hope they ship him too. Plus Gay and Mills are FA’s. Maybe they keep Mills for a veteran role, but hoping on a limited role. With that, I think Spurs have drafted and assembled real good role players, young athletic guards who can rebound and push the ball, and defensive at that. I’m hoping DJ will continue to grow and become AS caliber next season. Our 1st and 2nd year players are great. Keldon is arguably top 5-7 of his class, but needs this off-season to work on his in-between games. I don’t worry about him with his drive and motor. And once they slide Keldon to SF, he’d be punishing smaller defenders. Devin is poised and has sweet stroke. His length and dedication to D put him as a great candidate for All Defensive Team ahead. Tre is a steal as a backup PG. Luka and Walker have the highest ceiling for me, with their athleticism once they get consistent minutes next season. Next year would be telling how they step up when some of the veterans are gone. Lonnie is a good character. I just know he’ll take on the challenge.

    Nope, they don’t suck. On the contrary, the future is bright. I know I get frustrated also with how PATFO doesn’t gamble enough, maybe take a big swing on packaging for a CP3. But imo that allows our young players to focus on improving their crafts without the distractions. I still believe that the PATFO is one of the better management in all professional sports, if not the best. They will make the solid decisions by the end of the day. So I doubt the Spurs will ever be a perennial lottery pick like Sacramento.

    San Antonio is a small market. We all already know that. And understandably takes longer for us to get back to Championship caliber. The Suns’ gamble was a hit and miss, and still took them eons to get back to the Finals. I prefer how Utah drafted well and developed a great passing game, reminiscent of the beautiful game. I think if Spurs can add a great shooter like Duarte (maybe a trade to get that pick) and draft a Jalen Johnson for his Star potential, despite his red flag. If that pans out, I think Spurs would be in the right path. Just my take.
    Last edited by John B; 07-03-2021 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #11
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    KobesAchilles pretty much summed it up.

    I think that once Pop leaves, the Spurs are on the path of being a treadmill team for the foreseeable future.

    I would say three things needs to happen for San Antonio to truly become contenders again: they need to strike gold in the draft (be great to get another Duncan, but even another Kawhi would suffice), they need to bring in a high-level free agent with all of this cap maneuvering they've been doing, and at least two of our current young bucks need to take the next step (DJ, White, KJ, Lonnie, Vassell). For all of that to come together, I think we are at least two or three years away and that's being generous.

    If at least two of those three things happens, San Antonio would probably back in the playoff race but still not a true contender.

    If one or less happens, we're stuck on our current trajectory unless Miracle Max can work up one of those miracle pills.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a quick path back to glory from where we are right now.

    That's mostly Kawhi's fault by dismantling a contender, but Kawhi didn't make the front office draft a bunch of guards who are neither great shooters or great passers.
    Worth adding that San Antonio is a place few players want to play and has a culture that's perceived as team-first, where hard work and sublimating the self to the whole is sometimes necessary. It's astounding that Utah and San Antonio have been as relevant as they've been in NBA history. And I'd say Utah's recent history (last 20 years) is my hopeful case for the Spurs going forward -- still good, not always in the playoffs, but popping our heads up now and then.

    It may be even harder to put together a contender now, over the days when David Stern was trying to get the Lakers to play the Lakers in the finals every year. Once LeBron retires, maybe the superteam fad diminishes and players actually take stock in themselves, but it's not like he won't manipulate things through Klutch Sports regardless. Maybe the younger generation returns to 90s style ball, where guys are proud to rep franchises.

    Any case, we've been tremendously lucky as fans. We don't suck, but we're near-treadmill will nothing likely to budge us in either direction unless some of our young players turn into All-Stars.

  12. #12
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    KobesAchilles pretty much summed it up.

    I think that once Pop leaves, the Spurs are on the path of being a treadmill team for the foreseeable future.

    I would say three things needs to happen for San Antonio to truly become contenders again: they need to strike gold in the draft (be great to get another Duncan, but even another Kawhi would suffice), they need to bring in a high-level free agent with all of this cap maneuvering they've been doing, and at least two of our current young bucks need to take the next step (DJ, White, KJ, Lonnie, Vassell). For all of that to come together, I think we are at least two or three years away and that's being generous.

    If at least two of those three things happens, San Antonio would probably back in the playoff race but still not a true contender.

    If one or less happens, we're stuck on our current trajectory unless Miracle Max can work up one of those miracle pills.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a quick path back to glory from where we are right now.

    That's mostly Kawhi's fault by dismantling a contender, but Kawhi didn't make the front office draft a bunch of guards who are neither great shooters or great passers.
    1. Pop is a huge reason why the Spurs are a treadmill team right now. If it wasn't for Pop the Spurs might have some legit talent from the lottery the last few years. The Spurs need to start their rebuild a few years ago when Kawhi wanted out they should have just gutted the whole entire team and also got rid of Aldridge but Pop's ego wouldn't allow him to do so.

    Pop has stopped the Spurs from rebuilding much like Kobe did with the Lakers during his last few years in the league.

    2. Blame that on Pop too since he has a huge role on who the Spurs draft.

  13. #13
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Completely unbiased view, we could be the Sacramento Kings for the next 5+ years or we could suck for the next 2-3 years and make the playoffs again after that.

    Reasons to be the Kings or to have hope and make playoffs in 3 years: ownership is a big question mark. They pissed off Timvp already this year. Do they continue to meddle and be cheap or was this a one time my bad type of thing and they just let basketball people make basketball decisions? We don’t know

    GM: we have no idea if Brian Wright is competent at his job. We also don’t know how much power he really has atm. He hasn’t really done anything that says that he is good or bad. He picked up LMAs option for no reason other than him to go to the Nets. He didn’t re-sign DDR but he didn’t trade him either. Is letting him walk for nothing a good move or a bad one? Will he re-sign him? Signing Gay to his deal was a bad one too. Poeltl was a good sign for a back up center. And White and DJ are under nice contracts. Is he capable of making a trade? Or do we just continue to lose our players for nothing. We don’t know.

    Coaching : Pop has clearly not adapted well to the modern NBA. In an era of 3 ball he has gone iso midrange game. That in itself isn’t a killer but when we are constantly getting out scored by like 8 threes a game, that is hard to overcome. Defensively this team looks lost and has no idea how to play it. At some point that is on the coach. We don’t really have that many horses though and Pop will always rely on his vets over the young guys. Is this a good quality or a bad one? Dunno. How many years left does Pop have in him? Was this his last year? Is next year his last? Do we have any good assistant coaches left? How much coaching up can Pop really do with a team of no all stars and all
    under 25? Is there a replacement plan at all for when Pop leaves. Dunno.

    Players: we have zero players that are going to be all stars next year. We aren’t expected to sign one either. We will have the least amount of pure talent when going up against most nba teams. Our players range from B- to C- Will any of the youth evolve into something better than that? Odds are no but we don’t know. And for those who wish to have hope, maybe DJ and KJ learn how to shoot 3s, Poeltl learns how to shoot from beyond 3 feet, Lonnie becomes assertive, and White stays healthy. If all these things happen we will have a very fun and young team to watch. Kinda like last years Pelicans sans the obvious all star in Zion. Maybe we draft an athletic wing player or a mobile big who can defend and rim run. Maybe we draft a shooter who opens up the floor for our bench squad. Maybe we sign a good free agent or two and they fit in perfectly. But as of now, we have no idea if any of these things will happen

    We are at a cross roads where potentially all 4 facets of our team goes south in ownership, GM, coaching, and players. This would set our franchise back atleast half a decade. At the same time we could have all the right people in place, find the right replacement for Pop and all the stars align and our youth takes gigantic leaps. maybe we win the lottery next year and draft a Luka type player. Our future is one that nobody knows and really if you’re optimistic or pessimistic you can’t say for 100% certainty that you are right.

    P.S. we also have the worst future in our division
    Well put for the most part. A lot of uncertainty.

  14. #14
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses. A shame but it is what it is. 5 les. Thank you Duncan!

  15. #15
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    ...

    So my question is, do we suck? ...

    1). The Spurs have had two losing seasons in a row, and no significant changes have been announced yet (except the loss of an experienced assistant coach, Will Hardy.)

    2). The Spurs do not have a star player under contract at this time.

    Right at this moment, yes, the Spurs suck.

    There are various reasons for optimism, but the main thing is, the Spurs badly need a star player.

  16. #16
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    Pop stopped caring.
    Your list should've started with that note first. Pop stopped caring years ago and not after Tim retired, nor Ginobili, or Parker.

  17. #17
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses. A shame but it is what it is. 5 les. Thank you Duncan!
    Magical run.
    Who thought San Antonio would get a multi-decade run like that?
    Especially after the futility of all the other teams before and the upper-treadmill of the 90's with DRob.

  18. #18
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    problem with spurs roster is pop still building a roster with 1 dimensional players who cant mul asked skill set like a the modern swingman who can shoot anywhere on the floor and defend.... too many players on the roster are just specialised in nothing to cover the weakness of another player on the floor...

    the modern game now is have all 5 players at leasts +6'6 height on the floor who can shoot the 3 and not run set plays no more....

  19. #19
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    We suck but it's the kind of suck where it's on the court but not fundamental sucking in the organisation/business sense. We are 3 players away from seriously competing (1-2 MVP calibre + 1-2 All Star calibre) but conceivably 1 or 2 of those could be achieved through younguns growth. Our role players are solid. We need to get lucky in the draft and/or score a big Free Agent who thinks he can ring here and likes big girls

  20. #20
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Sours arent that far off. Gl finding that future franchise star though

  21. #21
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Completely unbiased view, we could be the Sacramento Kings for the next 5+ years or we could suck for the next 2-3 years and make the playoffs again after that.
    As bad as things could get, JFC they can't be Sacramento bad. I can't imagine the Spurs would be stupid enough to pass on Doncic with Ayton off the board for example.

  22. #22
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    As bad as things could get, JFC they can't be Sacramento bad. I can't imagine the Spurs would be stupid enough to pass on Doncic with Ayton off the board for example.
    Idk. All it takes is bad ownership to become that type of bad. Hiring unqualified people and yes men. One bad draft where we are stuck with a Darko. It could happen fairly easily. What if we have the wrong GM and if he hires the wrong coach? That sets us back 3 years on top of the 2 we have already missed the playoffs. We then hire a new regime and they take 2 years to steer the ship in the right direction and that’s 7 straight years of not making the playoffs. is more real than people are willing to admit

  23. #23
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    Hi. Became a fan in 03 after watching Tim Duncan live at 10 year old, became my favorite player ever from that point on. Watched Spurs at least playoffs and most national television games from 04-2014. Then just the playoffs from 2014 until Duncan retired. I was excited for the next Kawhi era and was tired of Parker (though still loved Ginobili and Duncan when they retired) and ofcourse that Kawhi happened, and it kind of soured me on Basketball. I've caught the playoffs the last two years of our team / bubble / a game here and there, I am enjoying some of the young youth that I saw in our bubble games/this year, who I haven't really experienced since Kawhi left us hanging.

    So my question is, do we suck? Am I looking in rose tinted glasses? I know a lot of trolling happens on here, but I want to know from a more reputable poster how things are looking for us? Treadmill for a long time? Actually have some young core that we can surround with a superstar talent and be contenders because I personally like Vassel and Keldon Johnson, the two I've seen the most of the guys I had no prior knowledge about before this year. (besides Keldon in the bubble). And I think DJM and White are both solid starters, maybe White even an all-star-level sixth man like Ginobili or Crawford.

    Edit: I don't like Lonnie at all, not sure what people see in him. Only one of our young guys I don't like.

    Thanks for anyone who took the time to read! Trying to figure out the state of our team. Lots of dumbass trolling and extremes being thrown around everywhere now and I won't front, I don't know a lot about basketball. I just enjoy to watch it, and try my best to follow every play.
    I'm not surprised that Kawhi 'soured you on basketball.' The first thing I would say is all Spurs fans are extremely fortunate for one thing- Tim Duncan. We had a run where we won 5 championships in a 15 year period. We were the most winning team in all sports during this period. Meaning that's a pretty seismic shift in our world going from the best 'in all sports' to a team who can't make the playoffs. Now we see how the other folks live. So I've decided to try to enjoy this new challenge while knowing we won't be winning championships or likely playing after tax day in the near future. I'm looking forward to attending a lot of games in 21-22. I'm interested in what moves we make this summer. Think DDR will be gone and we could be looking at less wins than last year.

    All that being said, I was seated not far from where the great Manu Ginobili had that beautiful and fateful dunk on Bosh in 2014. Consider myself to be very lucky to have witnessed those great years. It'll have to do for a while.

    Go Spurs!

  24. #24
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    Have to admit, I got a little bummed thinking about the Spurs while watching Milwaukee close out Atlanta. We definitely don't have anyone to compare to Giannis, but honestly, I don't even know if we even have someone that compares to Middleton or Holiday either at this point. D White is in the conversation if he can stay healthy. Sadly, I'm just not onboard with the Lonnie Walker hype. He's put up three seasons of incredibly bad numbers, and his assist, rebound, steal, BPM, VORP, and Defensive Rating numbers have all gotten slightly worse rather than even marginally better. His 3pt% last year was the lowest of his three seasons. I wish I could say I see a future productive role player, but I just don't...

  25. #25
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    What SA has going for it:

    1. Pop as coach (some players will want to play for him to say they did)
    2. NBA salary
    3. Power vacuum, room for a face of the franchise player

    What SA has going against it:

    1. It's in SA
    2. Small market
    3. No mentorship sans the big 3
    4. History of "get over yourself" doesn't fly with today's big names who want/need hero ball to pad their stats
    5. Knowing 1 and 2 exist, not a likely place to be able to pull good help if a superstar did give SA a look.

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