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  1. #51
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    No way, Olajuwon had a still in his prime Drexler next to him in 1995. No way Tim's 2003 supporting cast was better than Olajuwon's 1995 cast. Manu wasn't really Manu until that game in the 03-04 season where he dragged a Spurs team minus Tim and Tony to 2OT against the Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton Lakers on national TV. 02-03 season he was nothing close to the player he became the next year.
    Drexler ws past his prime but he had a great playoff run in 95

  2. #52
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    I think a young Tim Duncan (when he was a lot more agile and had his elite lateral quickness for a guy his size) could have checked Hakeem (not saying he would have shut him down, but I also wonder if Hakeem could have guarded TD any better than TD guarding him). Tim was also on that US select team that pushed the US and he held his own against those All-star big men before being in the NBA. David Robinson (when he and Tim were going against each other in practice) said Tim was already better than him before Tim even played his first game for the Spurs. It's debateable that Hakeem was much better than D-rob let alone TD.

    Anyway, I always used to say, if I were starting a team, I'd pick either TD or Prime Hakeem (I wouldn't pick Jordan as my first pick as I'd always start with a great big man that can play both offense and defense. I also want my big man to be skilled in the low post and be able to run offense through him if needed), having said that, Horry is really annoying me with these ridiculous takes (he's completely disrespecting TD for what reason, I don't know) and putting me off Olajuwon all together. Really, Hakeem only had a few years were he was great and put it all together. He wasn't anywhere near the leader TD was throughout his whole career and also was known to be very selfish earlier on. That is not conducive to winning anything. TD had it all from day one, and like TD21 said in a post above, if not for Tim's issues with his leg in the latter half of his career, this wouldn't even be a debate at all IMO. TD basically won finals MVP in the 2013 finals (against a prime Lebron, Wade, Bosh) if not for that final 27 seconds where he was not even on the court. That is on one leg. Tim was also great in the 2014 playoffs (Spurs MVP for the whole playoff run despite Kawhi getting finals MVP ), and then you got the 2015 series against Clippers with an in prime Griffin and DeAndre Jordan at their athletic peaks and Tim almost got the Spurs over the line in that one too (despite his teammates like Kawhi, TP, Manu playing poorly). Hakeem was completely done once his athleticism was gone. Tim was still battling some amazing players when his was done as his basketball IQ was off the charts.
    Hakeem made the finals in his 2nd year, and Sampson got hurt. So, what wasn’t conducive to winning was teammates getting kicked out of the league for drug use, same the Lakers were doing.

  3. #53
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Hakeem made the finals in his 2nd year, and Sampson got hurt. So, what wasn’t conducive to winning was teammates getting kicked out of the league for drug use, same the Lakers were doing.
    Classic David Stern tbh

    Rockets and later Mavs got destroyed by drug suspensions - we are talking about the only 2 legit threats to the prime Showtime Lakers team in the West - but somehow the hard partying Lakers didn't get any
    It was the 80s, everybody was doing Coke
    Last edited by lefty; 08-30-2021 at 09:35 AM.

  4. #54
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Drexler ws past his prime but he had a great playoff run in 95
    No he wasn't, he was like 32.

  5. #55
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    No he wasn't, he was like 32.
    He was 32 and past his prime

  6. #56
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    He was 32 and past his prime
    So Olajuwon was old and past his prime at 32 too?

  7. #57
    Believe.
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    I think a young Tim Duncan (when he was a lot more agile and had his elite lateral quickness for a guy his size) could have checked Hakeem (not saying he would have shut him down, but I also wonder if Hakeem could have guarded TD any better than TD guarding him). Tim was also on that US select team that pushed the US and he held his own against those All-star big men before being in the NBA. David Robinson (when he and Tim were going against each other in practice) said Tim was already better than him before Tim even played his first game for the Spurs. It's debateable that Hakeem was much better than D-rob let alone TD.

    Anyway, I always used to say, if I were starting a team, I'd pick either TD or Prime Hakeem (I wouldn't pick Jordan as my first pick as I'd always start with a great big man that can play both offense and defense. I also want my big man to be skilled in the low post and be able to run offense through him if needed), having said that, Horry is really annoying me with these ridiculous takes (he's completely disrespecting TD for what reason, I don't know) and putting me off Olajuwon all together. Really, Hakeem only had a few years were he was great and put it all together. He wasn't anywhere near the leader TD was throughout his whole career and also was known to be very selfish earlier on. That is not conducive to winning anything. TD had it all from day one, and like TD21 said in a post above, if not for Tim's issues with his leg in the latter half of his career, this wouldn't even be a debate at all IMO. TD basically won finals MVP in the 2013 finals (against a prime Lebron, Wade, Bosh) if not for that final 27 seconds where he was not even on the court. That is on one leg. Tim was also great in the 2014 playoffs (Spurs MVP for the whole playoff run despite Kawhi getting finals MVP ), and then you got the 2015 series against Clippers with an in prime Griffin and DeAndre Jordan at their athletic peaks and Tim almost got the Spurs over the line in that one too (despite his teammates like Kawhi, TP, Manu playing poorly). Hakeem was completely done once his athleticism was gone. Tim was still battling some amazing players when his was done as his basketball IQ was off the charts.


    That's the mark of the superior player. When the body starts to fail, how do you adapt? Timmy did, Hakeem, not so much. /discussion.

  8. #58
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    So Olajuwon was old and past his prime at 32 too?
    No not him
    Drexler was

  9. #59
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    [/B]
    That's the mark of the superior player. When the body starts to fail, how do you adapt? Timmy did, Hakeem, not so much. /discussion.
    Tim also had a better team around him as he got older, and Pop rested him a lot, extending his career

  10. #60
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    No not him
    Drexler was
    Nonsense. Drexler was still a really high end shooting guard in 95. Olajuwon took a garbage supporting cast to a ring in 94 but that 95 team was no joke with Drexler replacing Maxwell and with Cassell and Horry having another year under their belts.

  11. #61
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Lol Ginobli was an all star in 05 and Parker in 06. Both of them had damn good playoff runs in 05.

    again, you can’t point to any time period where his peak was better. Because it wasn’t. Rebounding, steals, blocks, scoring. Nothing.
    When you account for pace, their peaks are much more comparable. People always forget that Timmy played his prime on one of the slowest paced teams in modern NBA history.

    Duncan (01-03, per 100 possessions):
    RS: 32.5 ppg 17.1 rpg 5.1 apg 3.6 bpg 1 spg, PER 27
    Playoffs: 32.2 ppg 19.1 rpg 6.6 apg 4.8 bpg 0.8 spg, PER 29.3

    Hakeem (93-95, per 100 possessions):
    RS: 34.7 ppg 14.3 rpg 4.5 apg 4.5 bpg 2.2 spg, PER 25.6
    Playoffs: 38.2 ppg 13.2 rpg 5.4 apg 4.2 bpg 1.8 spg, PER 27.2

    At the end of the day, we're talking about two of the greatest players ever and I don't think there's a clear difference between either. Hakeem was a better score it seems and played passing lanes better on D, and Timmy was better or just as good in just about every other facet of the game.

    To imply Hakeem was 10 times better is what makes a statement outlandish. If you want to argue that Hakeem was better overall, sure go for it. There's an argument to be made there, especially if you want to talk about peak performance, but it's VERY close, even at their peaks

  12. #62
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Hakeem deserves every bit of credit for out playing Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq during those le runs.

    But let's not forget that Tim Duncan outplayed almost every single one of his peers in the playoffs between 01 and 05 (KG and Dirk in 01, Shaq and Dirk in 03, and Rasheed in 05). He never played against CWebb, but he handily outplayed him in the regular season matchups that they had.

    And as someone pointed out, Hakeem never played against anyone as good as three-peat shaq. Timmy outplayed Shaq in 02 and 03, just didn't have help in 02. His second best player in that series was a rookie Tony Parker, and Shaq's sidekick was Kobe...not really fair lol

  13. #63
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Hakeem deserves every bit of credit for out playing Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq during those le runs.

    But let's not forget that Tim Duncan outplayed almost every single one of his peers in the playoffs between 01 and 05 (KG and Dirk in 01, Shaq and Dirk in 03, and Rasheed in 05). He never played against CWebb, but he handily outplayed him in the regular season matchups that they had.

    And as someone pointed out, Hakeem never played against anyone as good as three-peat shaq. Timmy outplayed Shaq in 02 and 03, just didn't have help in 02. His second best player in that series was a rookie Tony Parker, and Shaq's sidekick was Kobe...not really fair lol
    Threepear Shaq was just bullying guys. Folks do forget 95 Shaq was no slouch either, and he was a lot quicker.

  14. #64
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    nm

  15. #65
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Can we discuss Horrys claim that he told Pop which D to run on the final Derek Swisher 0.4 play?
    Popped did the opposite per Horry.

  16. #66
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Can we discuss Horrys claim that he told Pop which D to run on the final Derek Swisher 0.4 play?
    Popped did the opposite per Horry.
    The problem wasn’t the D, the problem was not starting the clock on time. The D was quite good, and the buzzer should have sounded with the ball still in Fish breaths hand.

  17. #67
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    Can we discuss Horrys claim that he told Pop which D to run on the final Derek Swisher 0.4 play?
    Popped did the opposite per Horry.
    No way is anyone able to catch, turn and shoot in 0.4 seconds. The clock was started way too late. It never should have counted regardless of the defense.

    What did Horry say about the defense, though? What did he tell Pop to do?

  18. #68
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    The problem wasn’t the D, the problem was not starting the clock on time. The D was quite good, and the buzzer should have sounded with the ball still in Fish breaths hand.
    No way is anyone able to catch, turn and shoot in 0.4 seconds. The clock was started way too late. It never should have counted regardless of the defense.

    What did Horry say about the defense, though? What did he tell Pop to do?
    “The funny part is if I’d have did what I wanted to do, we would’ve won that game.

    “So Pop doesn’t like Kobe. He was like, ‘I don’t like him. I don’t want him to hit a game-winner,’ and so he says, ‘Rob, when Kobe comes off, just guard him.’

    “I was like, ‘No, you want the ball to go away from the basket.’

    “Where I was standing, Kobe comes off, I actually did this, ‘One thousand one, no I shouldn’t do it, (expletive) it, I gotta do what the coach says.’

    “So I run over to Kobe, the spot I leave, kicks it right to Fish, Fish catches and turns. I’m looking to Pop the whole time like, ‘See, if you make ’em throw ’em out that way, away from the basket, going this way and turning,’ I’m like, ‘Really?’

    “I was just shaking my head, and after that. It was a wrap.”

    Then, Horry was jokingly asked if he told the general manager to fire Pop after the game. Horry said no, and his reasoning was that Popovich is the real GM and “the other guy’s just a figurehead.” (Popovich is actually the Spurs’ president of basketball operations, and general manager R.C. Buford literally does report to him.)

    Link
    Why Robert Horry blames Gregg Popovich for Derek Fisher’s infamous Spurs-killing shot | For The Win (usatoday.com)

  19. #69
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    The problem wasn’t the D, the problem was not starting the clock on time. The D was quite good, and the buzzer should have sounded with the ball still in Fish breaths hand.
    Imperfect and / or cheating clock runner aside, with Swisher being left handed Ginobili should not have allowed him to run the direction he did.
    Of course Fisher had sucked soo many NBA refs s by then, to guard him within 12 inches of touching him was an extreme risk.

    But, needed to force Fisher the other way.

  20. #70
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    The problem wasn’t the D, the problem was not starting the clock on time. The D was quite good, and the buzzer should have sounded with the ball still in Fish breaths hand.
    No way is anyone able to catch, turn and shoot in 0.4 seconds. The clock was started way too late. It never should have counted regardless of the defense.

    TOO SOON

  21. #71
    Set for life Budkin's Avatar
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    Man 04,06, and 13 caused some serious PTSD for Spurs fans (myself included)

  22. #72
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    Always liked Big Shot Rob, but think the Spurs should tell him he is too ignorant to get his jersey hung in the rafters. He is dumber than a rock. Listen to him.

  23. #73
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Excellent thread. I can't recall this rather profound comparison ever being made anywhere in the history of basketball discussions

  24. #74
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    “The funny part is if I’d have did what I wanted to do, we would’ve won that game.

    “So Pop doesn’t like Kobe. He was like, ‘I don’t like him. I don’t want him to hit a game-winner,’ and so he says, ‘Rob, when Kobe comes off, just guard him.’

    “I was like, ‘No, you want the ball to go away from the basket.’

    “Where I was standing, Kobe comes off, I actually did this, ‘One thousand one, no I shouldn’t do it, (expletive) it, I gotta do what the coach says.’

    “So I run over to Kobe, the spot I leave, kicks it right to Fish, Fish catches and turns. I’m looking to Pop the whole time like, ‘See, if you make ’em throw ’em out that way, away from the basket, going this way and turning,’ I’m like, ‘Really?’

    “I was just shaking my head, and after that. It was a wrap.”

    Then, Horry was jokingly asked if he told the general manager to fire Pop after the game. Horry said no, and his reasoning was that Popovich is the real GM and “the other guy’s just a figurehead.” (Popovich is actually the Spurs’ president of basketball operations, and general manager R.C. Buford literally does report to him.)

    Link
    Why Robert Horry blames Gregg Popovich for Derek Fisher’s infamous Spurs-killing shot | For The Win (usatoday.com)
    And whose fault was Horry's wide open three off the backboard a minute earlier? The one that would have iced the game?

  25. #75
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    Man 04,06, and 13 caused some serious PTSD for Spurs fans (myself included)
    '13 was the worst for me. It was insufferable how many trolls came in here along with ESPN and media reliving it every week. If '14 never happened then this place would have been insufferable forever.

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