Kevin O'Connor: Spurs Should Have Blown it Up

[KobesAchilles]

Wasn't kevin Durant signing to the Nets a sign and trade as well?

Yeah it was one. Warriors got back D' Russ

[J_Paco]

Horrible example with zion...this is second year and he has a chance to make the playoffs...that's like saying lebron doesn't move the needle because he missed the playoffs his first 2 years in the league

Comparing Zion to LeBron is moronic.

LeBron in his age 20 season put up raw stats of 27, 7 & 7 while the team improved to 42 - 40. Zion in his age 20 season is putting up raw numbers of 26, 7 & 3 while the Pelicans are 22 - 27 for 10th in the West (out of the playoffs in a normal season).

The guy is otherworldly facing up & getting to the basket, but every other part of his game needs to vastly improve (especially defense).

And it isn't just about Zion, but the Pelicans organization also hasn't done a good job surrounding him with complimentary talent thus far. They made similar mistakes with Anthony Davis, so being skeptical of him (on that team) & that organization is valid.

[J_Paco]

Yeah the dude is crying that the 19 year old kid putting up 28 points a game on damn near 70% shooting isn’t helping his team. This is also basically Zions rookie year too bc he missed most of last year with injury. Just another typical Spurstalk take

Are they winning games or in the top 8 of the conference? No and no.

Again, he's otherworldly on offense (especially attacking the basket), but has thus far been a poor defender at the NBA level.

Never said he wasn't talented, he is, but that his presence hasn't yet led to them becoming a winning team. It hasn't and they are literally below the Spurs in the standings, while having a roster not truly suited to his strengths.

[KobesAchilles]

Are they winning games or in the top 8 of the conference? No and no.

Again, he's otherworldly on offense (especially attacking the basket), but has thus far been a poor defender at the NBA level.

Never said he wasn't talented, he is, but that his presence hasn't yet led to them becoming a winning team. It hasn't and they are literally below the Spurs in the standings, while having a roster not truly suited to his strengths.

Um the dude is basically a rookie. To put him in the category of KAT who has played for near 7 years is stupid. Zion is waaaaay better than anybody we currently have. It's like saying Embiid wasn't a franchise player or Giannis or Lebron bc they didn't lead their team to the playoffs their rookie year. It's a stupid statement. If he doesn't make it within two years then sure you can bring it up again and trash talk me to death, but it's way too soon to just say that Zion isn't a franchise layer when he is dominating his first year of playing.

[Ice009]

the defense turned into garbage once Messina and Udoka left, they came up with all the defensive schemes not Flopovich

Do you think David Robinson and Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, and Kawhi should get all the praise for the Spurs being one of the best defensive teams over the years during those player's primes? Now that you've bought it up, it's starting to look like Pop isn't even a good/great defensive coach like I thought he was all those years. I'd say he rode a some of the greatest defensive players of all-time into making people think he's a great defensive coach. I do remember Messina bringing a lot to the table in regard to defense and defensive schemes in his time here, so I think he may have been responsible for the Spurs defense after TD left. This just amplifies TD's greatness to me. He was criminally underrated on that end of the court by not winning a defensive player of the year, as he may have been responsible for some of the greatest defensive teams, ever. Bruce Bowen IMO also should have also won at least one too (TD more than one IMO).

I don't know, the way this is playing out is making me feel different about the past and if Pop really was the reason for much of that greatness at all.

They never had to trade him when they did. PATFO blinked. They should've taken it as far as possible, getting the league involved if necessary. He was clearly well enough to play. If he chose to sit out after making his trade demands, then the Spurs could've retained his rights. Pop should've told Kawhi, "Get out there and show everyone you can play & we'll trade you for the best package available." He dogged this franchise so bad.

Yeah, I forgot about all that. I now remember at the time, I wanted the Spurs to make him sit and force him to play. They should have done that. Boost his value up and make teams want to give up a bit more for him, or if he chose to sit out the rest of the cotract, retain his rights (is this what you meant? If he sat out the rest of his contract, Spurs would have had his rights still?).

Um the dude is basically a rookie. To put him in the category of KAT who has played for near 7 years is stupid. Zion is waaaaay better than anybody we currently have. It's like saying Embiid wasn't a franchise player or Giannis or Lebron bc they didn't lead their team to the playoffs their rookie year. It's a stupid statement. If he doesn't make it within two years then sure you can bring it up again and trash talk me to death, but it's way too soon to just say that Zion isn't a franchise layer when he is dominating his first year of playing.

I agree, Zion does have flaws and weaknesses, but he's still basically a rookie, and if those numbers someone mentioned are correct (26, 7, 3), then that is pretty darn good numbers for a not only a rookie, but a player in general.

Also, since Karl-Anthony Towns was mentioned a couple of times in this thread, what would you guys think about going after him? I know a lot of people don't consider him as a player that can vault your team into a Championship contender, but do you think he'd be a better building block then any of the current players on the team, or whoever the Spurs can get in free agency or the draft? Would many here be interested in trading some of the young players plus draft picks for him?

[KobesAchilles]

I agree, Zion does have flaws and weaknesses, but he's still basically a rookie, and if those numbers someone mentioned are correct (26, 7, 3), then that is pretty darn good numbers for a not only a rookie, but a player in general.

Also, since Karl-Anthony Towns was mentioned a couple of times in this thread, what would you guys think about going after him? I know a lot of people don't consider him as a player that can vault your team into a Championship contender, but do you think he'd be a better building block then any of the current players on the team, or whoever the Spurs can get in free agency or the draft? Would many here be interested in trading some of the young players plus draft picks for him?

Towns is a good player who has no idea how to play basketball. He had one year under Cal who doesn’t really teach basketball anymore. And all of his years in Minny did not help the cause at all. Minny has never developed a player before except for KG and that was a different regime. To be fair to Minny, they are aware they have no idea how to develop players which is why they re-signed KG at the end to teach Towns.

The point is that he is a very raw player, who doesn’t bring it every night, has low effort some nights and amazing games the next. His work ethic has been questioned by both KG and Jimmy Butler. He somehow gets bullied as a 7 footer, is horrible at pick n roll defense and not much of a passer at all.

That said, LMA was the same type of player in Portland. And we turned him into all nba defense type of player and a much better passer (still not great). Towns will give you all the offense you want, he can give you a bucket from anywhere on the court. And theoretically pairing him with Poeltl would be amazing as Poe does everything Towns can’t/refuses to do. I mean if we can get him then we should. And figure out the rest later. Idk how the salary of it would work.

[tmtcsc]

the defense turned into garbage once Messina and Udoka left, they came up with all the defensive schemes not Flopovich

Don't forget about James Borrego. He prepared the game plan against the Rockets in the playoff series when Manu blocked Harden from behind in OT of Game 5. Spurs humiliated the Rockets without Kawhi in Game 6 by 30 something points.

[ElNono]

I completely understand that but purely tanking isn't what this team and organization need. They need a superstar, period, or they could wind up like Sacramento or Minnesota. That type of player has been found later in the lottery or outside the lottery often most recently, and we need the Spurs to find one or more.

They had a great front-office, but the current incarnation hasn't had the same luck as when R.C. (mostly) was helming it.

Even drafting the #1 pick doesn't guarantee you'll improve, look at New Orleans (where Zion puts up points but loses) and Minnesota (year 6 w/ KAT & they still absolutely suck) as evidence (again) that high picks alone don't work.

We need high - end or generational talent to get back to a compe ive or championship place, but only Doncic has proven he's of that mold (of the last three or so drafts). And even Dallas with a much more aggressive FO, better market size & a talented coach are currently just "treading water" (perennial 7th/8th seed thus far).

I don't care how it's done specifically, but getting a true star(s) or superstar is paramount and acquiring more shooting + defense.

Everything else is crying, pissing, moaning & trolling cause the Spurs are experiencing a lot more of what the rest of the NBA has felt (over the last 20+ years).

No turnaround is going to be quick. There's no "reload" here. Nephew looked good his first season, but nowhere near as good as he looked in season 3+...

But, you simply have a better chance of landing top talent with a higher pick. It's not perfect, and it's not an exact science, but you look statistically at the better players in the league, and they're in the top 10, up to maybe some outliers in the top 15 area if you really want to stretch it.

Obviously, having a competent FO that knows to pick Jordan over Sam Bowie is important as well.

If we were a bigger market, then maybe we could lure talent with capspace and sponsorship deals, but we're not. It's HEB and Taco Cabana. We're clearly at a disadvantage there.

[Ocotillo]

No turnaround is going to be quick. There's no "reload" here. Nephew looked good his first season, but nowhere near as good as he looked in season 3+...

But, you simply have a better chance of landing top talent with a higher pick. It's not perfect, and it's not an exact science, but you look statistically at the better players in the league, and they're in the top 10, up to maybe some outliers in the top 15 area if you really want to stretch it.

Obviously, having a competent FO that knows to pick Jordan over Sam Bowie is important as well.

If we were a bigger market, then maybe we could lure talent with capspace and sponsorship deals, but we're not. It's HEB and Taco Cabana. We're clearly at a disadvantage there.

Meh, you're forgetting Miracle Body and Paint

[duncan2k5]

Comparing Zion to LeBron is moronic.

LeBron in his age 20 season put up raw stats of 27, 7 & 7 while the team improved to 42 - 40. Zion in his age 20 season is putting up raw numbers of 26, 7 & 3 while the Pelicans are 22 - 27 for 10th in the West (out of the playoffs in a normal season).

The guy is otherworldly facing up & getting to the basket, but every other part of his game needs to vastly improve (especially defense).

And it isn't just about Zion, but the Pelicans organization also hasn't done a good job surrounding him with complimentary talent thus far. They made similar mistakes with Anthony Davis, so being skeptical of him (on that team) & that organization is valid.

Don't change the narrative... nobody is saying zion is as good as lebron...lebron was billed as the savior...the chosen one...but he missed the playoffs twice... You judged him because he didn't lead his team to the playoffs... Well judge lebron the same way! Steph Curry also will miss the playoffs this year... I guess he is too

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I have to take this opportunity to gloat...when I said this back then, damn near the whole board came down on me...but it was very evident...if it were a different team that did this move, we would mock them...you know u made a horrible move when the franchise u made a trade with won executive of the year that same year

We're a small market team with limited resources. The balance of power in the NBA is shifting to the big markets more than ever. Unless we get another Duncan in the draft this team will suck for a very long time, and even if we score the unicorn in the draft, someone with Duncan's talent, but not his mentality, will likely bolt to greener big market pastures when given the chance.

The Spurs really did all they could in the situation they were in. They'll likely be wallowing in 20-30 win seasons for a decade by going the tank route and might even end up in a different city altogether when all is said in done. You can gloat if you want to, but I think your hatred for the FO drives a lot of your thought processes. When we're in year 4 of complete crap results let's see how good the tank feels. You can always blame the FO when we haven't turned the corner and become successful again. You probably weren't around when the Gervin era ended and we struggled prior to Robinson's arrival, but that level of irrelevance hurts a lot worse than what fans are experiencing now.

I don't fault the Spurs for continuing to try and stay compe ive however they could. If DDR had fit in better with LMA, and had LaMarcus kept himself in shape and not had the wheels come off, we would be discussing things differently. Armchair quarterbacks are never wrong, so yeah, nice work.

[Maddog]

We're a small market team with limited resources. The balance of power in the NBA is shifting to the big markets more than ever. Unless we get another Duncan in the draft this team will suck for a very long time, and even if we score the unicorn in the draft, someone with Duncan's talent, but not his mentality, will likely bolt to greener big market pastures when given the chance.

The Spurs really did all they could in the situation they were in. They'll likely be wallowing in 20-30 win seasons for a decade by going the tank route and might even end up in a different city altogether when all is said in done. You can gloat if you want to, but I think your hatred for the FO drives a lot of your thought processes. When we're in year 4 of complete crap results let's see how good the tank feels. You can always blame the FO when we haven't turned the corner and become successful again. You probably weren't around when the Gervin era ended and we struggled prior to Robinson's arrival, but that level of irrelevance hurts a lot worse than what fans are experiencing now.

I don't fault the Spurs for continuing to try and stay compe ive however they could. If DDR had fit in better with LMA, and had LaMarcus kept himself in shape and not had the wheels come off, we would be discussing things differently. Armchair quarterbacks are never wrong, so yeah, nice work.

Really good points
Only two teams have won an NBA le since 1980 that where outside the top 10 metro areas - Spurs and Cavs
The Spurs financially do not operate with a significant margin of error and rightly or wrongly feel they may loose their fanbase if prolonged loosing that a full rebuild entails. I'm on the fence about that one. I tend to lean towards blowing it up and taking a chance- but do understand the lack of guarantees and maybe not even a high probability of success.
The Spurs did get the unicorn so speak and he left as you said.
While I'm not enamored of DDR, let's look objectively at that deal.
The only other deal I've seen any remote evidence of being legitimate for Nephew was LAC two firsts (12 & 13) and Tobias Harris. The Spurs would never have been able to re-sing Harris, So basically two drafts picks that have not amounted to much. Not exactly a great draft outside of top 11. Now could they have taken 3 top 20 picks in turned into a top 5- who knows- highly speculative
Is that better than Keldon and Poodle.

[Arcadian]

I mean yeah, franchise is a dumpster fire

[J_Paco]

Don't change the narrative... nobody is saying zion is as good as lebron...lebron was billed as the savior...the chosen one...but he missed the playoffs twice... You judged him because he didn't lead his team to the playoffs... Well judge lebron the same way! Steph Curry also will miss the playoffs this year... I guess he is too

Again, look at LeBron‘s numbers and the fact that his team was heading in a positive trajectory (35 - 47 his rookie season to 42 - 40 his second).

Zion hasn't shown that his combination of insane offensive output and porous defense can lead to wins or a playoff berth. Again, it wasn't meant as a knock on just him (or that he won't get to the mountain top), but more so that even getting multiple #1 picks (or top 5 picks) doesn't guarantee a winning team.


That Curry part is just moronic and not even worth a retort...

[J_Paco]

Um the dude is basically a rookie. To put him in the category of KAT who has played for near 7 years is stupid. Zion is waaaaay better than anybody we currently have. It's like saying Embiid wasn't a franchise player or Giannis or Lebron bc they didn't lead their team to the playoffs their rookie year. It's a stupid statement. If he doesn't make it within two years then sure you can bring it up again and trash talk me to death, but it's way too soon to just say that Zion isn't a franchise layer when he is dominating his first year of playing.

Basically a rookie, my ass.

He played last season, looked out of shape, and has been great on offense this year. He hasn't been the instant "franchise changer" & the Pelicans are doing a questionable job building around him (while having multiple top 5 picks on the team).

We just saw a similar situation play out in New Orleans with Anthony Davis, yet I'm the one giving "bad takes" about a guy putting up huge numbers while his team still losses.

[KobesAchilles]

Basically a rookie, my ass.

He played last season, looked out of shape, and has been great on offense this year. He hasn't been the instant "franchise changer" & the Pelicans are doing a questionable job building around him (while having multiple top 5 picks on the team).

We just saw a similar situation play out in New Orleans with Anthony Davis, yet I'm the one giving "bad takes" about a guy putting up huge numbers while his team still losses.

Dude has played 67 games which is less than one season of basketball. Do you even know how many games there are every year? I mean Giannis isn’t a franchise player bc his team didn’t make the playoffs his rookie year. Neither is Lebron. Or James Harden. Or Kevin Durant. Or Steph Curry. Or Dame Lillard. Or Jokic. Or every ing superstar in the league today except Kawhi bc he was lucky enough to play for us. So yes you have a ty stupid take

[J_Paco]

Dude has played 67 games which is less than one season of basketball. Do you even know how many games there are every year? I mean Giannis isn’t a franchise player bc his team didn’t make the playoffs his rookie year. Neither is Lebron. Or James Harden. Or Kevin Durant. Or Steph Curry. Or Dame Lillard. Or Jokic. Or every ing superstar in the league today except Kawhi bc he was lucky enough to play for us. So yes you have a ty stupid take

Nah, you're too dense to understand my point.

Get back to me once Zion's winning games, the Pelicans are le contenders and making moves that play to his strengths. Or when a team with 3 top 5 picks having a record below .500 is cool cause "it's basically his rookie year."

Guess what, it isn't and the team's win - lose record ain't improving.

And just so you know, most of those guys you referred to as franchise players (where did I say he wasn't or couldn't be one) team's record improved from season one to season two.

[slick'81]

This team is ing trash

[J_Paco]

This team is ing trash

Yeah, the team is absolutely terrible currently.

The grueling schedule, lack of shooting/size & inept defense are a recipe for disaster.

[KobesAchilles]

Nah, you're too dense to understand my point.

Get back to me once Zion's winning games, the Pelicans are le contenders and making moves that play to his strengths. Or when a team with 3 top 5 picks having a record below .500 is cool cause "it's basically his rookie year."

Guess what, it isn't and the team's win - lose record ain't improving.

And just so you know, most of those guys you referred to as franchise players (where did I say he wasn't or couldn't be one) team's record improved from season one to season two.

The backpedaling is hilarious. You compared Zion to Towns, a player who has been in the league 7 years. Then you doubled down saying he isn’t basically a rookie when he hasn’t even played a full season of games. But if your ty point is that drafting a 19 year old doesn’t automatically make you le contenders well no Sherlock. Wtf is the point of even saying that. Literally nobody says it does. But it gives you a better shot at becoming one in the future when your 19 year old is clearly better than every other player his age (besides Luka) who also didn’t make the playoffs his rookie year so he’s not a franchise player and Dallas has a ty future for drafting him according to you bc they aren’t instant championship contenders. You can tell that Lebron was going to be a franchise player. And Luka. And Durant. Some you couldn’t tell like Giannis and Embiid and Dame and Harden. But all these players missed the playoffs. If Zion doesn’t have a better record next year in his year 2 then you would have an actual point. But the dude was hurt and played like 23 games last year.

BREAKING NEWS FROM J-Paco: drafting a transcendent 19 year old doesn’t automatically make you le contenders. You actually have to build a good team around him to win.

[KaiRMD1]

I used to have faith in the front office to think they never needed to blow it up but their luck ran out. Blowing it up is what needs to happen. O'Connor isn't wrong in the slightest

[stephen jackson]

Meanwhile Davis can’t miss a 3

[J_Paco]

The backpedaling is hilarious. You compared Zion to Towns, a player who has been in the league 7 years. Then you doubled down saying he isn’t basically a rookie when he hasn’t even played a full season of games. But if your ty point is that drafting a 19 year old doesn’t automatically make you le contenders well no Sherlock. Wtf is the point of even saying that. Literally nobody says it does. But it gives you a better shot at becoming one in the future when your 19 year old is clearly better than every other player his age (besides Luka) who also didn’t make the playoffs his rookie year so he’s not a franchise player and Dallas has a ty future for drafting him according to you bc they aren’t instant championship contenders. You can tell that Lebron was going to be a franchise player. And Luka. And Durant. Some you couldn’t tell like Giannis and Embiid and Dame and Harden. But all these players missed the playoffs. If Zion doesn’t have a better record next year in his year 2 then you would have an actual point. But the dude was hurt and played like 23 games last year.

BREAKING NEWS FROM J-Paco: drafting a transcendent 19 year old doesn’t automatically make you le contenders. You actually have to build a good team around him to win.

No, you idiot I said that even drafting #1 and picking a Towns or Williamson doesn't guarantee team improvement.

First, he's only "transcendent" offensively, while his rebounding and defense have been average to poor.

Second, you're intentionally ignoring that he has 2 other top 5 picks, who are both under 25 and they still aren't a serious playoff contender.

Lastly, no where did I claim that he couldn't become a superstar (I said only Luka has shown that he is one and it has led to WINS) or that the Pelicans/Zion will never find a winning formula.

Who gives a that he hasn't played a entire 82 games yet. Most rookies from last season needed and this season will need two combined seasons to do so. Why are you stuck on the barometer of "82 games" equals a season . Some guys need less time and others more time to adjust to the NBA, period.

He's clearly gotten in much better shape than his rookie season and has adapted quickly on the offensive end.

My point was that him and KAT are tremendously talented, went high in the draft and put up big numbers but the W's are what matter. And that's what the Spurs need talent + W's not just a guy putting up seemingly "empty calorie stats."

Done, and here are two NBA journalists (one which is O'Connor that everyone is admit is right about the Spurs) with similar thoughts:

Your too busy defending the honor and placement of Zion (on some imaginary hierarchy) to notice the many flaws in his game. That if not corrected, he could wind up like KAT putting up numbers but still losing becaise of his poor defense, rebounding effort, etc.

Imagine how much whining, ing and trolling would go on here if a #1 & two #2 picks didn't lead to near instant success.....

[KobesAchilles]

No, you idiot I said that even drafting #1 and picking a Towns or Williamson doesn't guarantee team improvement.

First, he's only "transcendent" offensively, while his rebounding and defense have been average to poor.

Second, you're intentionally ignoring that he has 2 other top 5 picks, who are both under 30 and they still aren't a serious playoff contender.

Lastly, no where did I claim that he couldn't become a superstar (I said only Luka has shown that he is one and it has led to WINS) or that the Pelicans/Zion will never find a winning formula.

My point was that him and KAT are tremendously talented, went high in the draft and put up big numbers but the W's are what matter. And that's what the Spurs need talent + W's not just a guy putting up seemingly "empty calorie stats."

Done, and here are two NBA journalists with my similar thoughts:

So you found a NY media guy that hyped up his own player. RJ Barrett isn’t even the best player on his own team. Before tonight’s game Zion scored 28, 38, 39, 30, and 34. Zion is averaging 10 more points a game than RJ. Shooting 20% better from the field and has more assists than RJ (who also plays ty defense!)

The amount of nitpicking here about Zion is ridiculous. You have to go back to Tim Duncan to find a rookie that made all nba defense his rookie year and David Robinson before that. And nobody is arguing Zion is as good as they were as rookies. No rookie is good at defense (and please don’t mention 8 minute a game Vassell). Even rookies whose strength in college was defense suck at it early in their career. The game is much faster, the season is much longer, and the athletes are usually a lot stronger than them too. I will agree though about his rebounding.

Secondly, who gives a about #2 draft picks. Michael Beasley was picked second. Thabeet was picked second. Darko was picked second ffs. Derrick Williams. Stromile Swift. MGK. Bagley was picked over Luka! Lonzo is a bust. He’s outshined by the 29th pick in the very same draft! And Brandon Ingram is your empty calories guy on the team not Zion. And even if you want to say well Zion is all offense and no defense. Here’s a list of players who were that (and still are) Lebron, Steph, Harden, KD, Luka. And none of them scored as much as Zion does so early in their career and at such a good clip. I dare you to find me a 19 year old who scored 26 a game on 62% shooting. give me any player who has ever done it, rookie or no rookie. It hasn’t been done. So this “ “ you put on transcendent looks stupid and if you can’t see that then idk what to tell you

[J_Paco]

So you found a NY media guy that hyped up his own player. RJ Barrett isn’t even the best player on his own team. Before tonight’s game Zion scored 28, 38, 39, 30, and 34. Zion is averaging 10 more points a game than RJ. Shooting 20% better from the field and has more assists than RJ (who also plays ty defense!)

The amount of nitpicking here about Zion is ridiculous. You have to go back to Tim Duncan to find a rookie that made all nba defense his rookie year and David Robinson before that. And nobody is arguing Zion is as good as they were as rookies. No rookie is good at defense (and please don’t mention 8 minute a game Vassell). Even rookies whose strength in college was defense suck at it early in their career. The game is much faster, the season is much longer, and the athletes are usually a lot stronger than them too. I will agree though about his rebounding.

Secondly, who gives a about #2 draft picks. Michael Beasley was picked second. Thabeet was picked second. Darko was picked second ffs. Derrick Williams. Stromile Swift. MGK. Bagley was picked over Luka! Lonzo is a bust. He’s outshined by the 29th pick in the very same draft! And Brandon Ingram is your empty calories guy on the team not Zion. And even if you want to say well Zion is all offense and no defense. Here’s a list of players who were that (and still are) Lebron, Steph, Harden, KD, Luka. And none of them scored as much as Zion does so early in their career and at such a good clip. I dare you to find me a 19 year old who scored 26 a game on 62% shooting. give me any player who has ever done it, rookie or no rookie. It hasn’t been done. So this “ “ you put on transcendent looks stupid and if you can’t see that then idk what to tell you

Blah blah blah.

I'm done with you, man. I didn't say anything about R.J. Barrett or care to mention that part of the video (it has absolutely no baring on the discussion), but somehow you swing that posting to being about him.

O'Connor's comments about Zion are the only things dealing with our discussion, homie.

It is about Zion, his lackadaisical effort on the glass and defense. Ignoring his obvious flaws and poor team record cause he's "just a rookie."

No. 2 picks don't matter now? So, I guess Kevin Durant doesn't matter or Ja Morant for that matter....

Nah, you've got the dumb ass take my man.