Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 76 to 99 of 99
  1. #76
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.

    https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/

    Yep. They're just getting there a different way. I was looking earlier this week, and I think the 5 or 6 top teams in the NBA had assist leaders who were 6'7" or better. When your PG is 6'10" (Ben Simmons) some of your other positions can be shorter and the team can still average out the same.

  2. #77
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Post Count
    13,829
    This debate again. For the umpteenth time, someone with the physical tools of Johnson is suited to defending 2.5's, not 3.5's which is unfortunately what the majority of the best wings are.

    Height isn't the extent of size and it doesn't determine position. For example, S bag is very much a 3.5 and the nominal "SF" because despite "only" being 6'6'' he makes up for it by being 230 (if not 40) and having a 7'3'' wingspan, compared to George who's 6'8'', but 225 with a 6'11'' wingspan.

  3. #78
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Post Count
    30,991
    They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.

    https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/
    That's a great article, and I appreciate you posting it. I think there are issues with its methodology though that get touched on in the article's conclusion. Simply listing the 450/510ish guys on rosters by height doesn't really capture the change in game. Instead, they should use play data to get the functional heights of the players. When guys like Siakam are listed as threes even though they play almost exclusively as PFs, it leaves a lot of be desired. Moreover, this type of listing assumes that guys mostly play at their listed position and essentially have direct backups. I don't believe this is true. If you instead took data for the average heights of the players on the court every minute and fed that into a model, you'd get average heights of guys in actual games and not just the third-string seven-footer

    DeRozan, for example plays almost exclusively at SF. If plays another position, it's more likely to be PF than SG. He should be part of the data for small-forwards instead of SG or even G-F as NBA.com has him listed. LMA is a center. Just because the Spurs sometimes play two centers together doesn't mean he's a PF. I do think it's more helpful to do the play-time, positionless model. But if you're not going to do that, then you have to classify people correctly.

    I do think the NBA is getting smaller. I also think they're getting shorter. But I don't believe that has been entirely reflected in their rosters yet. I think teams tend to want a few seven-footers just in case and load up on bigger guards yet still play smaller guys more often. I don't have the data to back that up, but I do believe it's true, and I believe the Spurs, in both good and bad ways, demonstrate that.

  4. #79
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Post Count
    3,380
    Who's pathetic alt is this? Lmao why dont you stop hiding behind alts? You criticize my takes but you dont have any of your own. It's easy to do what you're doing and acting tough on the internet thinking these insults get you points.
    Missed this mention... I didn't realize how stupid it sounded to accuse someone of being an alt. I guess your victim complex is kicking in and you think I'm after you? Grow a pair, my dude, and get some better ing takes so they're not called out on their idiocy next time. As for my takes, you can see them around the forum... Not being re ed. Saying Keldon's better than Lonnie, lol - got any more of those?

  5. #80
    Believe. DavidTheGoliath's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    232
    That israeli boy is good. Hope we move up to draft him.

  6. #81
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    3,033
    Yep. They're just getting there a different way. I was looking earlier this week, and I think the 5 or 6 top teams in the NBA had assist leaders who were 6'7" or better. When your PG is 6'10" (Ben Simmons) some of your other positions can be shorter and the team can still average out the same.
    Indeed, and good point about Simmons.

    Apparently the last few years have shown a tendency for shooting guards to get taller, and power forwards to get a little shorter, so they're converging on small forward height, the position closest to the league avg height. (Ignoring the Spurs' SG situation, ahem. In better days we were taller there.)

    The even greater trend, tho, is for players to be lighter. Speed and mobility are the goals, even for the tallest players. Teams look for range, and moves, more than power now. Siakam could be seen as the model for that, I suppose.

  7. #82
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    1,153
    That israeli boy is good. Hope we move up to draft him.
    This kid is very raw and a project. He’s not going to have an immediate impact. He’s averaging 2.9ppg/2.5rpg for Tel Aviv right now. About on par with what he did last season. He’s not another Luka Doncic...not even close. Luka won euro league mvp and won a euro league le. Very different situation and a big gamble that high in the draft.

    Deni could eventually be a decent nba player but do the spurs have the luxury to wait for his development? Are they in such a comfortable situation with this roster that if he’s a bust it won’t set the franchise back that much? Doubt he makes it down to our pick but it’s definitely a risky choice.
    Last edited by Prime BEEF; 12-29-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  8. #83
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    10,259
    Small forwards who are tall abuse small forwards who are not. This is not rocket science and it has been that way a majority of the time in every league, every where. The common size is 6-7 to 6-9. Those who are 6-6 could carry the position back when they could play physical, but now it is just too easy for a tall small forward to rise up and shoot over the top.
    Just for reference Bruce Bowen 6-7, Willie Anderson 6-7. Sean Elliot 6-8, Mike Mitc 6-7, KL 6-7, Walter Berry 6-8 and so on. Even though DDR is 6-7, he plays like a SG and does not play the physical way SFs play. Yes, there still is a difference and those who think you can just plug any guard into a SF position needs to take a timeout cause you have lost your way.

  9. #84
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    3,033
    ... When guys like Siakam are listed as threes even though they play almost exclusively as PFs, it leaves a lot of be desired. ...
    You are certainly correct that it does, especially since the starting SF for the Raps, when they're healthy, is Anunoby. Siakam is their PF. They've always been listed that way. I don't know where the other idea came from. A mistake.

    Moreover, this type of listing assumes that guys mostly play at their listed position and essentially have direct backups. I don't believe this is true. If you instead took data for the average heights of the players on the court every minute and fed that into a model, you'd get average heights of guys in actual games and not just the third-string seven-footer
    You raise an interesting question: are NBA reserves, in their overall average, taller than the starters? I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out. Among individual players, you and I can instantly think of two examples: Boban, and Tacko Fall, who are reserves, of course.

    Well, we can think of another one: Bertans. A bench player, taller than the starter. Hm. Being able to think of a few names doesn't prove anything, tho. It does open the question. If anybody has done the calculation, I don't know where.

    DeRozan, for example plays almost exclusively at SF. If plays another position, it's more likely to be PF than SG. He should be part of the data for small-forwards instead of SG or even G-F as NBA.com has him listed. ...
    I have to disagree about DDR. He was SG for 10 straight years with the Raps. He'd be at SG still if the Spurs' roster wasn't so flarnked. SG is his correct position. I believe you've argued that he could be played at PF, but that's hypothetical.

    LMA is a center. ...
    Not in his actual playing history in the NBA. His rookie year at Portland he was C, but then 8 straight years at PF. All through his "formative" years in the NBA, his 20s, he was a power forward. He's listed as C now because the Spurs seldom use two bigs, and they want him in the game. I don't know if there's an actual rule against having "PF" twice on a lineup card, but teams don't do it. So he's shown as the C. But he's a power forward. He's a shooter, not a slammer. Always has been.

    If you want a center, Shaquille O'Neal. Classic slammer. Shaq played from age 20 to 38, and in that entire career I think he made only one 3pt shot, and he only tried it maybe a dozen times. LMA is vastly different. Totally different style.

    To call LMA a center is to go directly against NBA terminology. Unless you just mean "tall guy," in which case Kevin Durant is a "center."

    Among the big guys, an NBA center is a slammer, an NBA power forward is a shooter. That's how the terms have always been used. Of course the terminology has never been perfect.

    Hakeem once attempted two 3pt shots in the same game, which was amazing at the time. He was a center.

    What's happening in the NBA with the big guys is that the centers are going extinct, gradually. Very tall players are still in demand, but they need to be lighter and more mobile, with greater shooting range. Look at the stark contrast between Shaq and Porzingis. Albeit, the Unicorn is indeed listed as a PF, but he's over 7' tall.

    At the moment, LMA has a 3pt percentage almost identical with Porzingis, btw.

    Most important, never forget that Kobe Bryant's middle name is Bean. [Yawn]

    I do think the NBA is getting smaller. I also think they're getting shorter. ...
    Not shorter, overall, but the statistics do show that the taller players are getting lighter. Big fatties aren't usually fast enough now.

  10. #85
    Believe. DavidTheGoliath's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    232
    This kid is very raw and a project. He’s not going to have an immediate impact. He’s averaging 2.9ppg/2.5rpg for Tel Aviv right now. About on par with what he did last season. He’s not another Luka Doncic...not even close. Luka won euro league mvp and won a euro league le. Very different situation and a big gamble that high in the draft.Deni could eventually be a decent nba player but do the spurs have the luxury to wait for his development? Are they in such a comfortable situation with this roster that if he’s a bust it won’t set the franchise back that much? Doubt he makes it down to our pick but it’s definitely a risky choice.
    International player who is two years away from being two years away? PATFO would be gushing. Austin is waiting for him tbh.On a serious note how is he compared to Samanic at the same age?Forget the other Luka, that guy is something else. I dunno why people are comparing those 2 to begin with

  11. #86
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    1,153
    International player who is two years away from being two years away? PATFO would be gushing. Austin is waiting for him tbh.On a serious note how is he compared to Samanic at the same age?Forget the other Luka, that guy is something else. I dunno why people are comparing those 2 to begin with
    Samanic didn’t play in the euro league but he averaged around double the points and rebounds as Deni in his 2yrs playing professionally in Europe. Comparing the 2 pre-draft I would say pass on either of them but if you had to pick one I think Samanic showed more potential pre-draft than Deni.

    The guy could certainly become good but the objective evidence doesn’t support the hype. They basically are just looking at his physical measurements, the fact that he can shoot, and dribble. But at some point you have to look at how he plays on the court. Especially if he’s going to be picked in the top 10

  12. #87
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    324
    I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?
    I like how they just kinda skipped over this

    I agree that 6'6" isn't the ideal height of a starting SF I do think that talent and length can make up for it (as is the case with the development of Johnson). Most Spurs fans are sensitive to this issue because we've been sending DDR out as a 3 for over a year now and watching the taller SF's dominate him on the offensive side. They want a 6'8"-6'9" defensive presence who can body up LBJ, Durant, etc... And the idea of adding what they see as an undersized player into the rotation seems line the clinical definition of insanity.

    I agree with the concept of positionless basketball but I think the argument presented here for it is slightly disingenuous. PG's and SG's are getting a little taller, centers and PF's are getting a little smaller and the value is no longer in the height to position ratio, it's in the ability to guard multiple positions (including your own). While the spurs have guards who can defend multiple positions, We lack that in our 3's, 4's and 5's. So what I think the argument here is is that Johnson may be good and may be able to do what we want, but is he what we need? Can he guard LBJ? Durant? Giannis?

    At the end of the day we had that player in nephew who was only 6'7" but played bigger because of his length and could guard guys listed as a 3 (but as you've pointed out mostly play the 4). We need another player like that who can guard those players competently and hit the 3 at a decent clip to open the lane and the midrange. I like the idea of trading Orlando or Isaacs. I think he could be that guy for us with a little development.

  13. #88
    Believe. DaBears's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Post Count
    926
    Absolutely nothing if we don't get a top 10 pick or try to bring back Bertans or JaMychal Green. Harrell probably wants to get paid.

    What, we're just gonna use Bird Rights on Marco and Forbes?
    Your talking like Bertans was a differnece maker on the team, and Green is 1 or 2 missed jumpers from being back in the G-league... Spurs need a star caliber player not a 7 or 8th player off the bench.
    y

  14. #89
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,323
    Your talking like Bertans was a differnece maker on the team, and Green is 1 or 2 missed jumpers from being back in the G-league... Spurs need a star caliber player not a 7 or 8th player off the bench.
    y
    You are right that Bertans is not a star but if he starts at SF and DDR starts at SG, probably we would had a few games where the result would be favourable to the Spurs as compared to DDR at SF and Forbes at SG. It is also highly unlikely that we can sign an All-Star calibre player.

  15. #90
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    2,179
    Samanic didn’t play in the euro league but he averaged around double the points and rebounds as Deni in his 2yrs playing professionally in Europe. Comparing the 2 pre-draft I would say pass on either of them but if you had to pick one I think Samanic showed more potential pre-draft than Deni.

    The guy could certainly become good but the objective evidence doesn’t support the hype. They basically are just looking at his physical measurements, the fact that he can shoot, and dribble. But at some point you have to look at how he plays on the court. Especially if he’s going to be picked in the top 10

    At the same age avidja is showing more tools, more potential than samanic.

    One important thing is that samanic did not play for a big team like avidja, you can't compare their stats imo.

    That doesn't mean samanic will not be better than avidja but the comparaison is not accurate for a lof of reasons....

  16. #91
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    3,033
    I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?
    NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

    (Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

    And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

    Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

    Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

    Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

    Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

    For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

    The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.

  17. #92
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    1,153
    NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

    (Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

    And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

    Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

    Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

    Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

    Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

    For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

    The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.
    Wow. Thank you for the detailed research.

  18. #93
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    11,572
    Joe Harris will be a free agent in 2020. He's most likely gonna resign with the Nets and will get offers around 15 Million, but if he doesn't he's worth to take a look at. One of the best shooters in the league, clutch, good passer, good cutter, good defender with enough size and can play the 2 and the 3. If Pop decides to coach for another season there might be a chance since he played for him on the national team. Spurs could only afford him if DeRozan is gone

  19. #94
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    8,348
    NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

    (Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

    And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

    Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

    Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

    Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

    Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

    For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

    The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.
    Eek and 3 of those 4 teams are lottery teams fighting for a top 5 pick.

  20. #95
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
    My Team
    Toronto Raptors
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Post Count
    9,576
    i would trade any three spurs for SGA.
    SGA put up 20, 20, 10 on 67% shooting tonight.

  21. #96
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    1,153
    SGA put up 20, 20, 10 on 67% shooting tonight.
    I don’t think okc would give us SGA for any of our players.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •