1. #26376
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    He will, the problem are the dead floridians...
    Why??

    They had plenty time to vaccinate. Even Desantis advised them to. Play stupid games...

  2. #26377
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Restaurants, parks and everywhere still packed right now

    Gonna get interesting. Im.leaving back home in 3 weeks so will be able to see what happens next few days
    Go tell your Governor to be President in Florida you will fight FOR the current Cuban government's right to stay in power.
    And then tell him its a free country and that HE can do anything he wants to you because... he's like Assad to you.

    Should be interesting.

  3. #26378
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    You are just full of .
    Choke on it.

    This is such a Trumpian distortion.
    Im so sorry he is gone.
    UrineTractInfection with another meltdown

  4. #26379
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    UrineTractInfection with another meltdown
    I like you on this site.
    When bored, there is always someone to lie and distort so blatantly...
    Im sorry. You are an easy target for the bored and about to fall asleep.

    Night, night heater. Keep it burning.

  5. #26380
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Too long to copy paste here...much more at the link. Curious to hear your thoughts on his theory.

    ==============================================

    The current expansion in prevalence of infectious Sars-CoV-2 variants is highly problematic because it erodes natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity in the non-vaccinated part of the population. The high infectivity rate that results from this expansion not only further enhances the expansion of these variants but may also drive natural selection of viral variants that are featured by an even higher level of infectiousness. Erosion, therefore, of natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity promotes breeding and transmission of more infectious viral variants in the non-vaccinated part of the population. On the other hand, mass vaccination promotes natural selection of increasingly vaccine immunity (VI)-escaping variants in the vaccinated part of the population. Taken together, mass vaccination conducted on a background of high infectivity rates enables more infectious, increasingly VI-escaping variants to expand in prevalence. This evolution inevitably results in inclining morbidity rates in both, the non-vaccinated and vaccinated population and precipitates the emergence of circulating viral variants that will eventually fully resist vaccine-mediated immunity (VMI). This is why mass vaccination campaigns should not be conducted during a pandemic of a highly mutable virus, let alone during a pandemic of more infectious variants (unless transmission-blocking vaccines are used!). It is critical to understand that a rapid decline in viral infectivity rates that is not achieved by natural infection but merely results from expedited mass vaccination campaigns will only delay abrupt propagation of emerging, fully vaccine-resistant viral variants and hence, only delay the occurrence of a high wave of morbidity and mortality. In contrast, mass vaccination campaigns that are progressing more slowly, especially when conducted on a background of relatively low infectious pressure, will result in a steadily growing propagation of increasingly VI-escaping variants and hence, cause a wave of morbidity and mortality that continues to grow bigger and larger as more and more people become vaccinated. It’s only when fully vaccine-resistant viral variants will become dominant that this wave will start to peak.

    To prevent more detrimental consequences of the ongoing evolution of Sars-CoV-2, we have no choice but to mitigate erosion of natural, Coronavirus (CoV)-nonspecific immunity in non-vaccinated individuals and exertion of strong immune selection pressure on immunodominant vaccinal epitopes in vaccinated individuals. This is to say that we must stop mass vaccination and lower viral infectivity rates immediately. Continued mass vaccination will only lead to a further increase in morbidity and hospitalization rates, which will subsequently culminate in a huge case fatality wave when expansion of more infectious, vaccine-resistant variants will explode.

    A rapid and substantial decrease in viral infectivity rates could be achieved by a short-term course of large-scale antiviral chemoprophylaxis (suitable candidates have already been identified) and adequate infection prevention measures while early treatment of symptomatically infected subjects and implementation of a healthy eating (including certain dietary supplements) and lifestyle (including exercise!) plan would further contribute to building herd immunity. Although this strategy is unlikely to eradicate the virus, it should allow forcing the pandemic into transitioning to a kind of ‘artificial’endemicity. Of course, as asymptomatic reservoirs (asymptomatically infected vaccinated or non-vaccinated humans or even animals) would remain, mass gatherings would still need to be avoided in the future and large-scale chemoprophylaxis campaigns using antiviral drugs would likely need to be repeated at specific time intervals and for as long as no sterilizing immune intervention is available. The action plan proposed above should immediately be implemented: Once the virus will become entirely resistant to the current vaccines, the above-mentioned measures will no longer be able to prevent a dramatic rise in casualties, unless campaigns of antiviral chemoprophylaxis are conducted worldwide and on a permanent basis.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...is-toning-down
    Not the first time I read about warnings on immune escape (one paper here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...36-0/fulltext), specifically about COVID. He's a bit more alarmed, but nonetheless raises a valid point.

    Time will tell, but at least current evidence with similar coronaviruses like the flu diminish the argument. Furthermore, despite his claims that antiviral chemoprophylaxis works, they're really not very effective, as we've seen with Alpha before the vaccines and we're seeing with the Delta and Lambda variants where the dead continue to pile up.

    I don't think the argument is without merit or wrong. I just don't think we have a better treatment right now. And if we did, then we wouldn't need vaccines anymore. So, if anything, vaccines continue to buy us time to find that type of treatment.

  6. #26381
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    mini-roundup of counterpoints to Van den Bossche's manifesto.

    tl;dr

    -- speculative, no evidence offered for his various claims in the manifesto
    -- variants of concern, including Delta, emerged before vaccination was widespread
    -- "leaky" vaccines can be swiftly reformulated
    -- Marek's disease shows that vaccines with a marginal effect on transmission can still significantly reduce the incidence of disease; around 99% in the case of Marek's disease
    -- sacrifices public safety to efficacy
    -- schoolboy howlers
    -- the urgency of Dr Van Den Bossche's unpublished scientific hunch is such that there is no time to do the science, mass vaccination must be suspended immediately; but he has no ready solution, just more speculation (coindentally, about a new type of vaccine he is involved in making, but hasn't shared with other scientists yet.)
    -- hasn't published a research paper since 1995

    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche
    https://www.deplatformdisease.com/bl...ossches-claims
    Read this after I replied, and like I noted, he does sound quite alarmed for some reason. What he mentions isn't new either, or without merit, but not a better alternative to vaccines at the moment.

  7. #26382
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second

  8. #26383
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    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    That sucks but vaxed right. So should be fine.

    They really need to stop calling it a rare breakthrough infection

  9. #26384
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    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    That sucks but vaxed right. So should be fine.

    They really need to stop calling it a rare breakthrough infection

  10. #26385
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    RO=8-9 now?

    The CDC presentation says the Delta variant is about as transmissible as chickenpox, with each infected person, on average, infecting eight or nine others. The original lineage was about as transmissible as the common cold, with each infected person passing the virus to about two other people on average.
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/polit...ons/index.html

  11. #26386
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Classic GOP bully act: Wisconsin Republicans will meet remotely without a public hearing to prevent UW from protecting its students.

    45,000 students attend UW.

    A Republican-controlled committee plans to block the University of Wisconsin from ins uting COVID-19 testing, masking and vaccination protocols on campuses across the state, a move that comes as health officials sound warnings about the rapidly spreading, highly contagious delta variant.


    State Sen. Steve Nass said Wednesday that he would be moving to require the university to get approval from the Legislature before enacting any virus-related regulations. Nass co-chairs the Legislature’s GOP-controlled rules committee, which Nass said will vote remotely Tuesday to block UW virus protocols without a public hearing.
    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...es/5415926001/

  12. #26387
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    based on this, perhaps?


  13. #26388
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    "preliminary data, subject to change"


  14. #26389
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    more screenshots (allegedly) of the internal CDC do ent at this thread:


  15. #26390
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    "get the shot, people"


  16. #26391
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Spreads faster then chicken pox,common cold and ebola. Worry that current vaccines will soon be ineffective. Fully vaccinated immune compromised and elderly being hospitalized delta is really ing up

  17. #26392
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    CNN a complete 180

    Vaccination is not enough by itself to stop the spread of variants, study finds

    But, but vaccines

    Says new goal is to keep.wearing masks until we vaccinate 8 billion people and hope the resistant strains die out by us wearing masks the whole time.

    So we gonna be wearing masks and social distance for thenext 2, 3 years and that MIGHT work

  18. #26393
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    New Zealand back in the lead as most successful country. USA back to the middle of the pack


  19. #26394
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    Time for another toilet paper run...

  20. #26395
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    Man, that sucks.

    I have a friend in Colorado who got exposed. His only symptoms were chills, which resolved overnight.

    Fully vaxxed (Moderna). 60+ white male. No comorbidities.

  21. #26396
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    UK data suggests delta less deadly

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

  22. #26397
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    3.8 billion doses have been administered in Earth

    Thats like 2 billion fully vaxed humans tops? So it took 8 months to vax 2 billion and those were the easy ones (rich countries)

    The hard part is vaxing the remaining 6 billion humans in mostly poor countries. That easilyncan take 2 - 4 years.

    Oh and forgot that we need to keep.boosting these people throughout

  23. #26398
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    not quite as simple as "Dems do it, Republicans don't"


  24. #26399
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    If The virus can be transmitted by vaccinated individuals just as easy as unvaccinated we are in deep and the symptoms are significant in both groups we are in big trouble.

    The antivac population was big enough and timed properly. Either the virus has significantly changed in delta or people are just getting giant doses now as opposed to earlier where the vaccines were clearly working. Or a combination of both.

    not good If some of this internal “might be” turns out to be accurate

  25. #26400
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If The virus can be transmitted by vaccinated individuals just as easy as unvaccinated we are in deep and the symptoms are significant in both groups we are in big trouble.

    The antivac population was big enough and timed properly. Either the virus has significantly changed in delta or people are just getting giant doses now as opposed to earlier where the vaccines were clearly working. Or a combination of both.

    not good If some of this internal “might be” turns out to be accurate
    CDC needs to show its work; it smacks of propaganda not to release the data publicly so experts can evaluate it.

    It should also be be stressed that vaccination still does a great job of preventing infection, 80-90%+ efficacy for mRNA vaccines. Therefore, it is misleading to say, as many media outlets have, that the vaccinated spread COVID "just as easily." If vaccine efficacy is as good as advertised, the ratio of the vaccinated spreading COVID will be much smaller than the ratio of unvaccinated folks passing it on.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 07-30-2021 at 09:05 AM.

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