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  1. #76
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I mean, Manu Ginobili had to get to the NBA for US developers to realize the Eurostep was something that could actually be done. Probably the most dominant basketball move of all-time.

    I remember NBA refs calling travel on those plays early on.

  2. #77
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    timvp stated that AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED, he was not a star. His Euroleague Final Four MVP came almost three years later, around the time of the FIBA world championship, 2002.
    OK ALL CAPS MAN YOU MASSIVE GOT

  3. #78
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    - Wasn't Javtokas in lowlights on youtube getting dunked on by team USA? Pretty sure he seemed to me like another classic stiff, nothing special. Plus, guys seem way more athletic over in Europe, then come here and for some reason (better compe ion?) look like crap. Guys who have succeeded here from Europe have largely been very heady, skilled players (Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki, Luka, even Oberto had a very nice PnR / pocket pass and reverse layup game, and Splitter was a master at finishing PnRs at the rim). Give me one big Euro dude who came here and was beasting athletically on people.

    - Mahinmi the Savior was supposed to be the chosen one for us for many years. He was a massive disappointment/foul machine while here and only blossomed when he left to our arch rival the Mavs. So only one argument there is we paid to develop him while other teams benefitted from the finished product. Another more fair argument is that he wasn't that motivated here, when we needed him most (to be Robin to aging TD's batman). that dude.

    - DeCola was an a-hole who didn't want to play his role IIRC. Not that he wasn't talented, he was like a poor mans Ricky Rubio. But he thought he was a star, and he was far from it. His at ude sent him packing IIRC.

    - I'll give you LJC had that ACL in his developmental years I think. The rest of the guys I didn't really follow that much, just dismissed outright since we never really saw them. I think there was another one, Viktor Sanikidze or whatever. Who cares, when the point is we picked guys like the aforementioned when Americans were in the draft that were heavily scouted, known commodities, that could have really helped here.
    You have got to be one of the most ignorant posters on this board (and there is some elite ignorance here). Javtokas could dunk on a 12 foot basket before the accident. He was off-the-charts athletic. Your comment about Ian actually disproves your primary premise. Ian blossomed after the Spurs because bigs develop later. The Spurs record with international picks is likely the best in the NBA, but you see the glass 20% empty instead of 80% full.

  4. #79
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.
    Most US players are one and done, and need development. Devin, in spite of the fact that he would have been 19 if the draft were held in its normal June slot, was a two year NCAA player. Tre also played two NCAA seasons.

    The dilemma of a player like Śamanic is that if he didn’t need development, he’d already be good enough that he would never drop to 19. You have to project with a player like that if your pick is outside the lottery. There are no more undiscovered (nba front office), ready to play gems in Europe. Fans may not have heard of Doncic a year out, but you can bet he was on every front office’s draft radar.

  5. #80
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    OK ALL CAPS MAN YOU MASSIVE GOT
    It was a point that obviously slipped past your keen powers of observation.

  6. #81
    Spurs love forever RobinsontoDuncan's Avatar
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    Most US players are one and done, and need development. Devin, in spite of the fact that he would have been 19 if the draft were held in its normal June slot, was a two year NCAA player. Tre also played two NCAA seasons.

    The dilemma of a player like Śamanic is that if he didn’t need development, he’d already be good enough that he would never drop to 19. You have to project with a player like that if your pick is outside the lottery. There are no more undiscovered (nba front office), ready to play gems in Europe. Fans may not have heard of Doncic a year out, but you can bet he was on every front office’s draft radar.
    Exactly. And to go even further, the Spurs have done a great job with Luka’s development so far. Here is a guy who was drafted as a string bean and now looks physically ready to play in the league. He also has a patented spin move, and an increasingly good feel for how the North American game is played.

    He didn’t light the world on fire in his 6 minutes this week, but you see him showing the same traits he’s had all along. His growth has been steady and linear since he got here. Watch his summer league tape from when he was drafted, he made a lot of nice moves to the hoop but didn’t have the strength to finish through contact. Fast forward a few months in the G League and a much stronger Luka is making those same moves and finishing with ease at a higher level of compe ion (G League is harder than Summer League).

    Now he’s starting to get some minutes in the NBA and he’s sort of going through a similar progression. His quickness and fluidity with his ball handling is helping him get to the rim. Now he has to learn that he needs to finish strong and be quicker against NBA athletes. This is just his development path.

  7. #82
    Believe. Rito3d30's Avatar
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    Luka always looks gassed, due to nervousness?

  8. #83
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    I agree even some lottery picks turn out to be real duds. The Spurs picking in the late 20's could take a chance on a prospect because they knew with a few hall of famers and some really good reserves on the team already, the new guy was going to have to go to the back of the line maybe even for a few years. Our hall of famers are all retired and we just have to be more careful who we draft so they can make a real contribution hopefully sooner rather than later if at all. Maybe Luka will turn out Ok who knows, but so far it seems like Keldon should have been the player drafted in the 19th slot. The development he got at Kentucky plus with the spurs coaching looks really good right now for a player drafted 29th.

  9. #84
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Luka always looks gassed, due to nervousness?
    He looks gassed because he's not used to playing NBA level basketball. Playing a single game's garbage time only every 4 months will do that to you. Get him on the court 10-15mpg consistently for a few months, and see how that changes.

  10. #85
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Now imagine Dejounte Murray being properly taught how to dribble a basketball, run a pick and roll, and managing a fast break.
    Or Lonnie being taught how to finish with both hands, intensive layup drills, and so many fundamental things that American prospects never learn through youth ball programs...

  11. #86
    Believe.
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    I wish the Spurs had drafted Brandon Clarke. Would be fun to see Spurstalk posters discuss about his numbers after 6 games into the season. -16 netrating, 17% 3p, 44% ft. Just a reminder: He's 24. I'm not saying Luka will definitely be better when he's 24, but there's a chance.

  12. #87
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    I always remember a take that Sean Elliott would say when a rookie played bad for any team and there was talk about that player being a bust. He said teams that draft an 18 or 19 year old kid and expecting them to be instant NBA Stars are delusional as it takes really 3 years for these young players to develop. He basically said hey if your drafting players that need to be developed then give them time to be developed before you give up on them
    This is the correct approach but the body language of a young player shouldn't be the one Luka has. If he was active and he just didn't have the development(body, skills, etc) then i 100% agree but whenever i saw this kid i dont like what i see effort wise

  13. #88
    Spurs love forever RobinsontoDuncan's Avatar
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    I wish the Spurs had drafted Brandon Clarke. Would be fun to see Spurstalk posters discuss about his numbers after 6 games into the season. -16 netrating, 17% 3p, 44% ft. Just a reminder: He's 24. I'm not saying Luka will definitely be better when he's 24, but there's a chance.
    I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.

  14. #89
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

    As has been said, Trey Jones* is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

    Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age compe ion and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quan y. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.
    Jahlil Okafor was the first player to ever win ACC Player of the year as a freshman, Nolan Smith was an All American and ACC Player of the year, Chris Carrawell was ACC player of the year... the list goes on & on. This litmus test doesn't work.

  15. #90
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.
    ST has a habit of becoming obsessed with the new shiny item. Human nature, I guess.

  16. #91
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    i don't know; how many have we wasted on domestic stiffs?

  17. #92
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.
    I can only hope he will... Luka is a good gamble with very minimal risk. If he pans out, we have an athletic big with touch and ball handling.
    The kid obviously has skills. He was able to get away from his defender with a spin and neat ballhandling, just to get swatted away.
    He needs to get stronger to build confidence to finish strong.

    Agree. Luka has more upsides than any of young core, except Keldon, because of his length. He can realistically be 16/8 by next year if he can get stronger, and double-double machine in 3-5 years imo.

  18. #93
    Spurs love forever RobinsontoDuncan's Avatar
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    ST has a habit of becoming obsessed with the new shiny item. Human nature, I guess.
    I actually think that ST has a lot of hot take artists who just like to make inflammatory statements and either borderline or explicitly racist comments (there are certainly more than a few in this thread). That didn’t used to be the case. Kori and Timvp never moderated this place, but there were strong cultural norms in place in Spurstalk’s hay days that stopped that kind of thing, and they were a big part of it.

    The other issue, I think, is that the Spurs fans on this board don’t seem to have a lot of experience following sports where athletes develop more slowly that basketball. Back in 2007 when the Spurs were setting up the then Toros they spent a lot of time talking to and learning from MLB teams about prospect development. That’s a sport where kids can go pro as early as 16 or 18 and start right away in the minors. A whole lot of those kids never make the majors until their mid 20s. That means it can take years and years to develop an all star level player and you have to learn how to help players continue on a slow and steady trajectory. The Spurs also used to have a minor league hockey team. Hockey is a sport similar to baseball in that hockey prospects are drafted at 17, and a majority of NHL players don’t really break through until their age 22 or 23 season, and a player doesn’t really hit his prime years until around 25. There are exceptions, obviously, but that’s the normal player development trajectory.

    For whatever reason, NBA teams have not historically set themselves up that way. It’s frankly a little mind boggling. The truth is, if you have plus NBA athleticism, work ethic and are good enough to be drafted in the first round, you should be able to turn into a pretty damn good player. Skills like shooting, defense, ball handling, etc. can all be taught and perfected well into a player’s age 26 or 27 season in the NBA. Look at Kawhi for proof of this. Also think about the trajectory of guys like Parker and even Manu, who didn’t really break out into a truly all star level player until his age 27 season. This stuff happens all the time.

    What’s different about the Spurs approach to drafting and developing lately is that they have been focusing more on guys with high ceiling and specific athletic traits above high character guys with higher floors but lower ceilings and more well rounded games. That had been their approach for many years when they had a championship core because that’s the kind of player they needed back then. Now they need to develop a new generation of stars so they’re clearly looking for guys with a bit higher of a ceiling that will take longer to develop. In guys like Luka and Lonnie Walker, the Spurs were basically looking for the basketball version of Josh Allen — guys that can and will develop more slowly, but can really boom if all goes right.

    I’m here to tell you that everything is going really, really well with Luka right now based on what I’ve seen of his progression. It has been linear and it has been upward. The people that say otherwise just haven’t been watching him at lower levels to see his play progress so far. They also make lazy statements like Luka has motor issues because they don’t understand the really wide divergence between the international and NBA game right now. Luka doesn’t have motor issues, he has typical confidence issues and is having to learn to play help defense in North America. There are some guys like Luka D. that have made that translation faster due to their super elite BB IQ, but that’s really rare for a 20 year old.
    Last edited by RobinsontoDuncan; 01-06-2021 at 03:14 PM.

  19. #94
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    Some time I just wonder how many posters here are really Spurs fan, if Spurs took a safe pick it will be a squad of middling players with no further, if the Spurs took a gamble on high ceiling prospect it will be a FO who skip players with high floor. These guys might even piss on DRob when he was drafted, maybe if we had drafted Dallas' Luka he will be an empty calorie player that play no defense.

  20. #95
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    No doubt in my mind RC would’ve picked that walking oak tree, Poeltl, with #6 if he had the chance

    I can’t stand watching his soft ass waddle around the court and get get blocked at the rim by guards. He’s so awful and overrated by “advanced” stat virgins that it’s disgusting. A 7 foot Danny Green. I told folks Danny was a dumpster watching him with my eyes and ignoring useless like DRAYMOND stats now the rest of the fans have caught up after watching him on Bron’s team.

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