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  1. #201
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I know where we draft is affecting our choice of talent. Duh. But I'm tired of point guards when it has been proven literally all of NBA history that if your name isn't Steph Curry or Zeke, you will never lead your team to the le as a first option. This combo guard thing is too bc I can't even think of a single combo guard that ever lead a team to the le.

    I'd rather have a ton of SFs then guards. guards. Gimme more misses (if we are going to miss) like Sammich please. Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron, KD, every teams best player has been a SF since like 2012 except for 2 (and in 2014 that SF ended up winning Finals MVP)
    I don't disagree with you, but also don't expect the Spurs to follow my (or your) personal drafting philosophy.

    Saying "except for Steph Curry" is kind of a big omission, since not only is he a very recent and modern player, he completely reshaped a generation of young kids; I can see a player like Trae Young for example, who absolutely molded his game after Curry's, winning a championship in the near future, provided some savvy moves by ATL and of course the necessary luck that every champion needs. Combine that with the shooting dearth of this Spurs team, and I can't fault the FO for swinging to the fences for a SG (I don't really see Primo as a true combo guard, he's a SG first and foremost, with playmaking potential, IMO).

    Lastly, I don't necessarily agree that the Spurs were looking for their championship centerpiece last draft (which seems to be the ulterior assumption behind your comment). The Spurs at this point don't have any player that's head-and-shoulders above the rest, to the point that you can call them a true #1 or even #2 option; I think we'll see Keldon or White, if healthy, rise to that level this season, but it's beyond the point. So, using a mid-lottery pick to try and fish for your #2 guy, that's a pretty different picture than saying "their drafting strategy is futile since almost no SGs have led their teams to rings". I don't see that kind of pressure on Primo's shoulders at all (which there certainly would be if he had been a #1 pick or so).

    I don't expect them to draft a guard if they tank out (er, lose out) the season and get a top lottery pick, is my point. The FO having drafted them with middling picks in the past does not forbid them from changing that strategy under different, more favorable drafting cir stances.

  2. #202
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    JP getting ready for the NBA season.


  3. #203
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with you, but also don't expect the Spurs to follow my (or your) personal drafting philosophy.

    Saying "except for Steph Curry" is kind of a big omission, since not only is he a very recent and modern player, he completely reshaped a generation of young kids; I can see a player like Trae Young for example, who absolutely molded his game after Curry's, winning a championship in the near future, provided some savvy moves by ATL and of course the necessary luck that every champion needs. Combine that with the shooting dearth of this Spurs team, and I can't fault the FO for swinging to the fences for a SG (I don't really see Primo as a true combo guard, he's a SG first and foremost, with playmaking potential, IMO).

    Lastly, I don't necessarily agree that the Spurs were looking for their championship centerpiece last draft (which seems to be the ulterior assumption behind your comment). The Spurs at this point don't have any player that's head-and-shoulders above the rest, to the point that you can call them a true #1 or even #2 option; I think we'll see Keldon or White, if healthy, rise to that level this season, but it's beyond the point. So, using a mid-lottery pick to try and fish for your #2 guy, that's a pretty different picture than saying "their drafting strategy is futile since almost no SGs have led their teams to rings". I don't see that kind of pressure on Primo's shoulders at all (which there certainly would be if he had been a #1 pick or so).

    I don't expect them to draft a guard if they tank out (er, lose out) the season and get a top lottery pick, is my point. The FO having drafted them with middling picks in the past does not forbid them from changing that strategy under different, more favorable drafting cir stances.
    I mean Curry did it for one season and then choked away the next season to a SF
    I don’t see Trae winning a ring personally. I think this is as far as he is going to go for a good long time. Kinda like Portland making it to the WCF that one season.

    Im not against them looking for a number 2 player at all. But to me, SG is a useless position to draft. I mean off the top of my head there is Harden, Klay and then just a buncha guys at SG. They might get lucky and have a good playoff run like a Middleton or Booker but those guys are just chuckers who don’t really do anything when the ball isn’t falling. Harden is in charge of the offense and Klay guards the best players really well. They are the only 2 SGs who aren’t one dimensional chuckers.

    We do need a PG IMO and it’s not a bad idea to draft a PG but like an actual one. One that can dribble and shoot and pass the ball. They can be a scoring PG, I don’t mind that but I’m just tired of this Combo guard ideas. Especially on a team with nothing but guards. I’m guessing we are moving off of Lonnie but it could be Murray as well if he doesn’t learn how to shoot 3s.

    I was just saying that if we are swinging for the fences on guys then why not guys with some height and length to them instead of midget guards that we end up playing as out of position SF. I don’t expect to get a franchise guy with the 12 pick but I also don’t expect to get a clear cut #2 player by drafting shooting guards.

  4. #204
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I mean Curry did it for one season and then choked away the next season to a SF
    I don’t see Trae winning a ring personally. I think this is as far as he is going to go for a good long time. Kinda like Portland making it to the WCF that one season.

    Im not against them looking for a number 2 player at all. But to me, SG is a useless position to draft. I mean off the top of my head there is Harden, Klay and then just a buncha guys at SG. They might get lucky and have a good playoff run like a Middleton or Booker but those guys are just chuckers who don’t really do anything when the ball isn’t falling. Harden is in charge of the offense and Klay guards the best players really well. They are the only 2 SGs who aren’t one dimensional chuckers.

    We do need a PG IMO and it’s not a bad idea to draft a PG but like an actual one. One that can dribble and shoot and pass the ball. They can be a scoring PG, I don’t mind that but I’m just tired of this Combo guard ideas. Especially on a team with nothing but guards. I’m guessing we are moving off of Lonnie but it could be Murray as well if he doesn’t learn how to shoot 3s.

    I was just saying that if we are swinging for the fences on guys then why not guys with some height and length to them instead of midget guards that we end up playing as out of position SF. I don’t expect to get a franchise guy with the 12 pick but I also don’t expect to get a clear cut #2 player by drafting shooting guards.
    lol wtf. MJ and Kobe both played the 2 homie. Dwade may be a migdet by your standards but also played SG and won chips.

  5. #205
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    lol wtf. MJ and Kobe both played the 2 homie. Dwade may be a migdet by your standards but also played SG and won chips.
    I was talking more recently homie. I mean yeah Kobe won in 2010. And MJ 25 years ago. Even Wade was 15 years ago. SGs in TODAYS game are pretty much useless to draft (IMO) if you want a franchise player and other than Harden and Klay, I believe they are just chuckers who bring nothing else to the game. If Booker or Middleton aren’t making shots they are useless. If Chris Paul misses shots then he can still set up teammates and run the offense. Giannis, Kawhi, KD all have the size to effect the game defensively.

    So in order of positions I would draft, SG is last on my list.

  6. #206
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I was talking more recently homie. I mean yeah Kobe won in 2010. And MJ 25 years ago. Even Wade was 15 years ago. SGs in TODAYS game are pretty much useless to draft (IMO) if you want a franchise player and other than Harden and Klay, I believe they are just chuckers who bring nothing else to the game. If Booker or Middleton aren’t making shots they are useless. If Chris Paul misses shots then he can still set up teammates and run the offense. Giannis, Kawhi, KD all have the size to effect the game defensively.

    So in order of positions I would draft, SG is last on my list.
    This league has gone position-less. Play on both sides of the ball and be a threat from outside and you have something.

  7. #207
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    The most dominate shot in today's game is the step back 3. To create a 3 off the dribble is so dominate. Creating space and your shot can't be contested with the rule allowing you to land. Usually guards are the ones that can pulled that off. So guards can still be dominate, hence Harden and Curry. When looking around the league, there are only a few players than can pull it off. Nets have three of them. Spurs have zero.

  8. #208
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    This league has gone position-less. Play on both sides of the ball and be a threat from outside and you have something.
    I mean it has and it hasn’t. You aren’t really using the term positionless correctly. You don’t put Harden at the 5. Houston tried placing Tucker at the 5 and he hated it and got demolished. Positionless is really used to say combo like Harden can be a 1 or a 2 effectively. But on our team, what positions can Lonnie play for instance? Only SG. He’s too small for a SF and he has no idea how to run an offense. So you can say the league has gone positionless, but Lonnie hasn’t. He is still very much a 2 guard.

    Murray is our PG, but he can’t shoot the ball effectively enough from 3 to be our SG. So he isn’t positionless. He’s stuck at the 1 until he learns how to shoot. And you can argue that he doesn’t know much about being a 1 either. So this whole positionless thing only really applies to Derrick White where he can play both guard positions and guard up to the 3. But that takes a toll on your body. Look at KJ, there were plenty of games where he was overmatched and just listless bc every day he had to go against a person taller and bigger than him. Over 82 games and that really hurt him as player.

    Positonless is only really good for certain star players. Steph and Dame are 1s. They aren’t anything else. Embiid and Jokic are Cs and not anything else. Booker is a 2 and Ayton and Chris Paul are a 5 and 1 respectively and not anything else. Gobert is a 5. Poeltl is a 5. The only really effective players aside from Klay and Harden who are truly positionless players are bigger and have size to them. Lebron, AD, KD, Luka, Giannis, Zion, George and Kawhi, Simmons. So it doesn’t make sense to draft a 6ft 4 shooting guard and say he’s going to be positonless bc he just isn’t.

  9. #209
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I mean it has and it hasn’t. You aren’t really using the term positionless correctly. You don’t put Harden at the 5. Houston tried placing Tucker at the 5 and he hated it and got demolished. Positionless is really used to say combo like Harden can be a 1 or a 2 effectively. But on our team, what positions can Lonnie play for instance? Only SG. He’s too small for a SF and he has no idea how to run an offense. So you can say the league has gone positionless, but Lonnie hasn’t. He is still very much a 2 guard.

    Murray is our PG, but he can’t shoot the ball effectively enough from 3 to be our SG. So he isn’t positionless. He’s stuck at the 1 until he learns how to shoot. And you can argue that he doesn’t know much about being a 1 either. So this whole positionless thing only really applies to Derrick White where he can play both guard positions and guard up to the 3. But that takes a toll on your body. Look at KJ, there were plenty of games where he was overmatched and just listless bc every day he had to go against a person taller and bigger than him. Over 82 games and that really hurt him as player.

    Positonless is only really good for certain star players. Steph and Dame are 1s. They aren’t anything else. Embiid and Jokic are Cs and not anything else. Booker is a 2 and Ayton and Chris Paul are a 5 and 1 respectively and not anything else. Gobert is a 5. Poeltl is a 5. The only really effective players aside from Klay and Harden who are truly positionless players are bigger and have size to them. Lebron, AD, KD, Luka, Giannis, Zion, George and Kawhi, Simmons. So it doesn’t make sense to draft a 6ft 4 shooting guard and say he’s going to be positonless bc he just isn’t.
    Fair points. Position-less is also an often overrated skill; see DDR. I guess a better way to approach things is either players who have a sound, undeniable skillset ala Steph, Dame, Harden maybe a Tre or Beal or second tier scorers like your Levine, Booker, CJ type guys etc and team them up with the proper position-less complements. I mean D White would be a good example of a 6’4 guy who could play alongside all of the above as a 1, 2 or even a 3 in certain cir stances. Give this team a pure 6’4 scorer not named Brynn Forbes and we might be a playoff team.

  10. #210
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I mean Curry did it for one season and then choked away the next season to a SF
    I don’t see Trae winning a ring personally. I think this is as far as he is going to go for a good long time. Kinda like Portland making it to the WCF that one season.

    Im not against them looking for a number 2 player at all. But to me, SG is a useless position to draft. I mean off the top of my head there is Harden, Klay and then just a buncha guys at SG. They might get lucky and have a good playoff run like a Middleton or Booker but those guys are just chuckers who don’t really do anything when the ball isn’t falling. Harden is in charge of the offense and Klay guards the best players really well. They are the only 2 SGs who aren’t one dimensional chuckers.

    We do need a PG IMO and it’s not a bad idea to draft a PG but like an actual one. One that can dribble and shoot and pass the ball. They can be a scoring PG, I don’t mind that but I’m just tired of this Combo guard ideas. Especially on a team with nothing but guards. I’m guessing we are moving off of Lonnie but it could be Murray as well if he doesn’t learn how to shoot 3s.

    I was just saying that if we are swinging for the fences on guys then why not guys with some height and length to them instead of midget guards that we end up playing as out of position SF. I don’t expect to get a franchise guy with the 12 pick but I also don’t expect to get a clear cut #2 player by drafting shooting guards.
    Interesting points. Once again I want to acknowledge that there's a difference between your personal drafting preferences, and that of the Spurs org, and I wouldn't judge the latter based on the former, for either your preferences or mine. There's not a single path that leads to a championship and there never has been.

    I don't think Curry choking changes anything in the discussion. To choke the way he did, he had to have already gotten to the Finals, and gotten a 3-1 lead over "a SF", did he not? It's the same when posters mindlessly on Pop for pulling out Timmy for that one rebound; he deserves blame to be sure, but all too often posters forget that he'd have to have gotten the Spurs to that point in order for that mistake to be possible. Anyways, it's still a PG leading his team to a championship, and almost B2B had insane heroics from LeBron & Co and insane choking from the Dubs not taken place, so it fits the criteria - even more so when you see how shooting-based Steph's game is. He was the first to prove you can (long distance) shoot your way into a ring. I see what you're saying about Trae, but I'm more optimistic on his future outlook, especially after watching him in the POs last season. Dude was the underdog in every series and stepped up big time. He'll get his eventually, no doubt to me.

    I don't agree that SG is a useless position to draft (though I do agree that the value of the SG position as a whole has lowered since the 3pt revolution took place; not as much value in a shooting guard when your whole starting lineup can shoot...), and also that they're "just chuckers who don’t really do anything when the ball isn’t falling". That's a harsh preconception that doesn't apply to nearly every SG - did Manu do nothing when the ball wasn't falling? No... And he didn't retire 25 years ago, unlike MJ. At the end of the day, if you draft a SG that can only shoot 3's, yeah, it'll probably bite you in the ass like the 0-27 Rockettes. But that's not a fault of SGs per se. Matter-of-fact, we drafted Primo, who looks to be not only a shoot-first SG, but also have above-average passing instincts and could develop as a playmaker, while also playing interestingly solid defense. Right off the bat, he's not the archetype you loathe, is he?

    What I still agree with you in is that I don't see many SGs be the #1 guy on championship teams. And I think it has a lot to do with that devaluing of the SG position as a whole. A SG that can only shoot will probably not be better than a PG that can playmake, and shoot, or a big that can be a defensive powerhouse, and shoot, like Embiid for example. But again, I don't think the Spurs were ever aiming for Primo to be that #1 guy (nor do I feel they'll play him at SF unless he grows into that length), so I feel it's a strawman to put him there and tear him down.

    I'm also tired of Forbes-like combo guards, tho, tbh. I like Primo a lot precisely because, if he pans out, he might finally be a secure lock for the starting SG position for years to come, and the Spurs can go ahead and focus on other areas with their draftees. They've been waiting to hit gold on a guard for a long ass time and I want them to go in other directions, so Primo working out would be great to me.

  11. #211
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Interesting points. Once again I want to acknowledge that there's a difference between your personal drafting preferences, and that of the Spurs org, and I wouldn't judge the latter based on the former, for either your preferences or mine. There's not a single path that leads to a championship and there never has been.

    I don't think Curry choking changes anything in the discussion. To choke the way he did, he had to have already gotten to the Finals, and gotten a 3-1 lead over "a SF", did he not? It's the same when posters mindlessly on Pop for pulling out Timmy for that one rebound; he deserves blame to be sure, but all too often posters forget that he'd have to have gotten the Spurs to that point in order for that mistake to be possible. Anyways, it's still a PG leading his team to a championship, and almost B2B had insane heroics from LeBron & Co and insane choking from the Dubs not taken place, so it fits the criteria - even more so when you see how shooting-based Steph's game is. He was the first to prove you can (long distance) shoot your way into a ring. I see what you're saying about Trae, but I'm more optimistic on his future outlook, especially after watching him in the POs last season. Dude was the underdog in every series and stepped up big time. He'll get his eventually, no doubt to me.

    I don't agree that SG is a useless position to draft (though I do agree that the value of the SG position as a whole has lowered since the 3pt revolution took place; not as much value in a shooting guard when your whole starting lineup can shoot...), and also that they're "just chuckers who don’t really do anything when the ball isn’t falling". That's a harsh preconception that doesn't apply to nearly every SG - did Manu do nothing when the ball wasn't falling? No... And he didn't retire 25 years ago, unlike MJ. At the end of the day, if you draft a SG that can only shoot 3's, yeah, it'll probably bite you in the ass like the 0-27 Rockettes. But that's not a fault of SGs per se. Matter-of-fact, we drafted Primo, who looks to be not only a shoot-first SG, but also have above-average passing instincts and could develop as a playmaker, while also playing interestingly solid defense. Right off the bat, he's not the archetype you loathe, is he?

    What I still agree with you in is that I don't see many SGs be the #1 guy on championship teams. And I think it has a lot to do with that devaluing of the SG position as a whole. A SG that can only shoot will probably not be better than a PG that can playmake, and shoot, or a big that can be a defensive powerhouse, and shoot, like Embiid for example. But again, I don't think the Spurs were ever aiming for Primo to be that #1 guy (nor do I feel they'll play him at SF unless he grows into that length), so I feel it's a strawman to put him there and tear him down.

    I'm also tired of Forbes-like combo guards, tho, tbh. I like Primo a lot precisely because, if he pans out, he might finally be a secure lock for the starting SG position for years to come, and the Spurs can go ahead and focus on other areas with their draftees. They've been waiting to hit gold on a guard for a long ass time and I want them to go in other directions, so Primo working out would be great to me.
    I was talking in today’s nba. Manu retired like 5 years ago and was drafted 23 years ago. I can only really think of 2 SGs that can affect a game positively when their shot isn’t falling. Harden and Klay. Even a player like Donovan, while very dynamic, is virtually useless when he isn’t scoring. I have no idea if Primo is a good defender. I’m not even sure he can dribble the ball and create for others as well. He has a good shot, but over 82 games can his body handle it? Definitely not right now. He might become out starting 2 of the future. I hope he does but he will never be the #2 on a championship team. Even Manu as great as he was, and he was great, was only the second fiddle once outta his 4 rings.

    My main issue with our drafting is that we are just drafting the same player we have in White. Unless we get rid of Murray and then I see some actual vision for the team, and not the 76ers imma draft Okafor, Noel, and Embiid type vision, then I will continue to be skeptical going forward. Bc I don’t believe we have good ownership, management, coaches, and players. And I don’t see us really addressing it as a whole and everyone is just kinda hoping it will all work out which isn’t really a plan at all

  12. #212
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I mean it has and it hasn’t. You aren’t really using the term positionless correctly. You don’t put Harden at the 5. Houston tried placing Tucker at the 5 and he hated it and got demolished. Positionless is really used to say combo like Harden can be a 1 or a 2 effectively. But on our team, what positions can Lonnie play for instance? Only SG. He’s too small for a SF and he has no idea how to run an offense. So you can say the league has gone positionless, but Lonnie hasn’t. He is still very much a 2 guard.

    Murray is our PG, but he can’t shoot the ball effectively enough from 3 to be our SG. So he isn’t positionless. He’s stuck at the 1 until he learns how to shoot. And you can argue that he doesn’t know much about being a 1 either. So this whole positionless thing only really applies to Derrick White where he can play both guard positions and guard up to the 3. But that takes a toll on your body. Look at KJ, there were plenty of games where he was overmatched and just listless bc every day he had to go against a person taller and bigger than him. Over 82 games and that really hurt him as player.

    Positonless is only really good for certain star players. Steph and Dame are 1s. They aren’t anything else. Embiid and Jokic are Cs and not anything else. Booker is a 2 and Ayton and Chris Paul are a 5 and 1 respectively and not anything else. Gobert is a 5. Poeltl is a 5. The only really effective players aside from Klay and Harden who are truly positionless players are bigger and have size to them. Lebron, AD, KD, Luka, Giannis, Zion, George and Kawhi, Simmons. So it doesn’t make sense to draft a 6ft 4 shooting guard and say he’s going to be positonless bc he just isn’t.

    Totally agree. People go crazy with the "positionless basketball" theory, when all they really mean is that a few players are able to move up or down a position and still be effective. There were always stars in the past who were more talented than the rest and could do diverse things, like Magic starting at center when Kareem was hurt, or Pippen being the de facto PG of those Chicago teams. People made a big deal about Tucker playing a "big" at only 6'5", and he was gritty and great against some match ups... but when it came time to play the Lakers, Anthony Davis put up historically impressive and efficient numbers and destroyed him. In that series, the size-doesn't-matter/positionless philosophy was a disaster.
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 08-28-2021 at 08:39 PM.

  13. #213
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    Totally agree. People go crazy with the "positionless basketball" theory, when all they really mean is that a few players are able to move up or down a position and still be effective. There were always stars in the past who were more talented than the rest and could do diverse things, like Magic starting at center when Kareem was hurt, or Pippen being the de facto PG of those Chicago teams. People made a big deal about Tucker playing a "big" at only 6'5", and he was gritty and great against some match ups... but when it came time to play the Lakers, Anthony Davis put up historically impressive and efficient numbers and destroyed him. In that series, the size-doesn't-matter/positionless philosophy was a disaster.
    Yeah, for some reason people always see Houston as some proof that small-ball worked, but it was basically the opposite. Generalists are great over the the course of a regular season when things are always changing and turbulent. But once they get locked in a phonebooth against a specialist, they aren't going to win. Tucker isn't Chuck Hayes. He's not stopping a real big. He's also not stopping a quick guard. The Spurs had defensive versatility in the Medium Three era because they had defenders who could guard the NBA's best at every level, not because they had a bunch of switchable guys. It's a different league now, but controlling for talent, it's better to play a diverse roster with guys who are good at their position rather than a roster that relies on size differences to mask the lack of talent. A lineup of five guys with Prime Lebron's size, talent and athleticism obviously beats every other lineup. But most teams don't have any guy who can approximate that even just defensively, let alone five.

  14. #214
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    PD Web and Bryce Hendricks Break down Josh Primo's Summer League.




  15. #215
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    PD Web and Bryce Hendricks Break down Josh Primo's Summer League.




    why did they just spend 5 minutes talking about how he gathered his left foot?
    Last edited by KingKev; 08-29-2021 at 06:52 AM.

  16. #216
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    why did they just spend 5 minutes talking about how he gathered his left foot?
    They’re wondering whether it’s possibly a biomechanic issue with the lower leg, is my guess.
    When he puts on weight and as he grows, does it exasperate a possible flaw in the motion leading to unexpected wear and tear, possible injuries related to it down the line.

  17. #217
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    They’re wondering whether it’s possibly a biomechanic issue with the lower leg, is my guess.
    When he puts on weight and as he grows, does it exasperate a possible flaw in the motion leading to unexpected wear and tear, possible injuries related to it down the line.
    Quite the analysis!

  18. #218
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    why did they just spend 5 minutes talking about how he gathered his left foot?
    I see the concern, but I got the point in about the first 30 seconds....yet they kept talking and talking and talking about it.

    Also, it was one shot from an 18-year old in a summer league game. He is obviously not going to have picture perfect form on every shot.

    Some people obviously have way more time to dedicate to watching basketball than I do.

  19. #219
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    I see the concern, but I got the point in about the first 30 seconds....yet they kept talking and talking and talking about it.

    Also, it was one shot from an 18-year old in a summer league game. He is obviously not going to have picture perfect form on every shot.

    Some people obviously have way more time to dedicate to watching basketball than I do.
    It’s not just form. They’re talking about a potential physical issue that only showed itself in his form, that his left ankle may not support him.

  20. #220
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    I see the concern, but I got the point in about the first 30 seconds....yet they kept talking and talking and talking about it.

    Also, it was one shot from an 18-year old in a summer league game. He is obviously not going to have picture perfect form on every shot.

    Some people obviously have way more time to dedicate to watching basketball than I do.
    Imagine analyzing a young Manu eurostep and predicting that it could be cause for concern. Hopefully they are trained osteopaths. The Spurs medical team has had its issues lately lol

  21. #221
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Yeah, for some reason people always see Houston as some proof that small-ball worked, but it was basically the opposite. Generalists are great over the the course of a regular season when things are always changing and turbulent. But once they get locked in a phonebooth against a specialist, they aren't going to win. Tucker isn't Chuck Hayes. He's not stopping a real big. He's also not stopping a quick guard. The Spurs had defensive versatility in the Medium Three era because they had defenders who could guard the NBA's best at every level, not because they had a bunch of switchable guys. It's a different league now, but controlling for talent, it's better to play a diverse roster with guys who are good at their position rather than a roster that relies on size differences to mask the lack of talent. A lineup of five guys with Prime Lebron's size, talent and athleticism obviously beats every other lineup. But most teams don't have any guy who can approximate that even just defensively, let alone five.
    worked with draymond, though. miami played a ton with bosh at C. feels weird to pick out Houson and say oh their small ball lineup couldnt account for a lebron/AD pairing so it doesnt work.

  22. #222
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    worked with draymond, though. miami played a ton with bosh at C. feels weird to pick out Houson and say oh their small ball lineup couldnt account for a lebron/AD pairing so it doesnt work.
    So Bosh and Tucker are very different sizes. And Draymond doesn't play C full time because that wouldn't work. Houston is the team that thought they cheat-coded the NBA. Having All-NBA talents do their thing even though they're shorter than you'd like isn't the same thing as believing that switching and spacing can replace talent.

  23. #223
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    So Bosh and Tucker are very different sizes. And Draymond doesn't play C full time because that wouldn't work. Houston is the team that thought they cheat-coded the NBA. Having All-NBA talents do their thing even though they're shorter than you'd like isn't the same thing as believing that switching and spacing can replace talent.
    i think bosh at the 5 would still count as small ball, in the scheme of things. the would have some lineups with joel anthony or birdman at C, so it wasnt their full time lineup.

    imo houston was successful, and dantoni is heavily underrated.

  24. #224
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    i think bosh at the 5 would still count as small ball, in the scheme of things. the would have some lineups with joel anthony or birdman at C, so it wasnt their full time lineup.

    imo houston was successful, and dantoni is heavily underrated.
    Successful? No more so than his always falling short Suns. The only thing most people remember is that you didn’t ring. Doesn’t matter if you’re a player or a coach. Malone, Barkley, and Ewing get the same treatment.

    My aha moment with Coach three names was after GS won their first ring, he said that he felt it validated his system, completely missing the fact that GS was THE NUMBER ONE TEAM IN Drtg. That is kind of important, but Three names never gets it.

  25. #225
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Successful? No more so than his always falling short Suns. The only thing most people remember is that you didn’t ring. Doesn’t matter if you’re a player or a coach. Malone, Barkley, and Ewing get the same treatment.

    My aha moment with Coach three names was after GS won their first ring, he said that he felt it validated his system, completely missing the fact that GS was THE NUMBER ONE TEAM IN Drtg. That is kind of important, but Three names never gets it.

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