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  1. #26
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Didn't Murray make the defensive team during his rookie season? I guess the voters think he has diminished his abilities since then, eh?

  2. #27
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'm not sure his abilities have diminished but the more he takes on the offensive end the less energy he'll have to be a lock up defender. Not that he ever was that, but yeah, point stands.

  3. #28
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Westbroook was averaging a triple double for 3 or 4 seasons and lead a Oklahoma team to the playoffs and i still think he is and always was a cancer... Murray is a good player, but if we ever wanna be serious team, he would need to be a third option. Thats why i hate that we did not tank as we should. ing Warriors tanked twice in the mean time. The spurs are just a team that has no idea what they are or wanna be.
    Totally agree on the tank. That late season surge especially after we traded away White. At that point, Ca should have been your bench PF at minimum. Collins and Landale should have gotten heavy minutes. Etc

  4. #29
    Believe. couchman's Avatar
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    I thought DJM's defense took a small step back this last season.
    He was essentially a break-even player defensively last year on RAPTOR.
    Which is great for someone who was so good on offense.
    Like others have said, he was expending more energy on offense.
    He wasn't exactly a stopper.

  5. #30
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Uhhh, the Warriors tanked twice? When was the 2nd time? And the first time was driven due to injuries, not a decision to tank.

    The Spurs traded away their key players (or let them walk) this past offseason but the young core they have was too good to tank. You guys want them to not develop players which is ing ridiculous. And besides, the tank is overrated. Out of the 15 players on All NBA teams last year, 6 were picked AFTER the 9th pick. Another 3 were picked after the 6 pick! Only 6 of 15 were picked in the top 5.

  6. #31
    Believe. D-Robinson 50 fan's Avatar
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    Our overall team defense wasn’t the greatest and we didn’t have a winning record so I’m not surprised

  7. #32
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Didn't Murray make the defensive team during his rookie season? I guess the voters think he has diminished his abilities since then, eh?
    because we had one of the best defensive teams of the NBA and they had to pick somebody. DJ at the time had games with 5 and 7 steals to close out the season.

  8. #33
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    Uhhh, the Warriors tanked twice? When was the 2nd time? And the first time was driven due to injuries, not a decision to tank.

    The Spurs traded away their key players (or let them walk) this past offseason but the young core they have was too good to tank. You guys want them to not develop players which is ing ridiculous. And besides, the tank is overrated. Out of the 15 players on All NBA teams last year, 6 were picked AFTER the 9th pick. Another 3 were picked after the 6 pick! Only 6 of 15 were picked in the top 5.
    All the remaining teams left except for Miami have guys who were top 10 in the lottery as key pieces of the their teams. The Warriors have it with Curry, The Celtics have it with Tatum and Brown, The Mavs have it with Doncic.

  9. #34
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    ^^^

    And I wonder if these ulative disses will eventually force Murray to request a trade or sign elsewhere on his next contract so he gets a bit more recognition.
    I think he’ll be tired of the Spurs eventually if they dont make any moves to improve relying solely on the draft. In that case they’ll get yet a few more teenagers that need 2-3 years just to see if they can help win games.

    Its similar to Lavine telling Chicago to build a team around him bc he wasnt going to sign back with a perennial lottery team that kept cycling through draftees that didnt amount to anything. Playing in a good team is not just fun, it matters for career recognition and brand. Besides all Dejounte talked about when asked about the triple doubles and individual accolades was how much he wanted the team to win and that being the most important thing on his mind.
    Last edited by SAGirl; 05-21-2022 at 09:25 PM.

  10. #35
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    because we had one of the best defensive teams of the NBA and they had to pick somebody. DJ at the time had games with 5 and 7 steals to close out the season.
    True and I think on top if that, the fall-off when he went to the bench (the ghost of Tony Parker on one leg) was huge. He was at that point very significant in that sense.

  11. #36
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Yeah, Green's one of the best defensive guards of his era, Anderson has proven to be a great defender, and LMA probably turned in his best season. I was not happy with the selection at the time, and I think history has born that out. The voters confused a beneficiary of an elite defensive system with its enabler. As I've said, it's unfortunate in that Murray does certain things very well. He just hasn't reached and probably won't reach the level on either end of the court. I hope this does motivate him to come out next year and kick ass. But I wouldn't say he's a rage boost away from making the All-D team next year.

  12. #37
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    All the remaining teams left except for Miami have guys who were top 10 in the lottery as key pieces of the their teams. The Warriors have it with Curry, The Celtics have it with Tatum and Brown, The Mavs have it with Doncic.
    Ok, but you just said the Heat didn't. And Curry was a 7th pick, hardly different than the 9th pick of the Spurs. And those Boston picks? Not from tanking, from trading with Brooklyn. They simply got incredibly lucky. Even the Mavs got super lucky by having 3 other teams pass on Luka. So if your argument is that you have to tank, your examples don't even prove that.

    People here severely overrate tanking. Even if the Spurs were some kind of treadmill team, after a few years at their current position, they'd end up with a top 4 pick about 50% of the time.

  13. #38
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Murray had a solid season but I’m not sure he deserved it. He was tasked with alot of responsibility this season and I think his on ball D suffered at times.

  14. #39
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    Ok, but you just said the Heat didn't. And Curry was a 7th pick, hardly different than the 9th pick of the Spurs. And those Boston picks? Not from tanking, from trading with Brooklyn. They simply got incredibly lucky. Even the Mavs got super lucky by having 3 other teams pass on Luka. So if your argument is that you have to tank, your examples don't even prove that.

    People here severely overrate tanking. Even if the Spurs were some kind of treadmill team, after a few years at their current position, they'd end up with a top 4 pick about 50% of the time.
    The Heat are the needle in the haystack with their success. That type of success is very rare. Whether these teams got lucky in the Mavs with Doncic or the Warriors with Curry it still proves my point you have to have a top 10 pick usually to get a star in this league. In the last 30 years only, the Raptors won a le along with the Bucks with having a star player who wasn't a top 10 pick. Tanking unfortunately does work more often then not. The only other option to acquire top picks is through trade like you mentioned.

  15. #40
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The Heat are the needle in the haystack with their success. That type of success is very rare. Whether these teams got lucky in the Mavs with Doncic or the Warriors with Curry it still proves my point you have to have a top 10 pick usually to get a star in this league. In the last 30 years only, the Raptors won a le along with the Bucks with having a star player who wasn't a top 10 pick. Tanking unfortunately does work more often then not. The only other option to acquire top picks is through trade like you mentioned.
    Except the fact that 6 out of 15 all NBA slots from last year shows its not a needle in a haystack, is it. Its the exact opposite. You don't need a top 10 player to get a star in this league.

    God damn I show you X and you still think that it has to be Y even when you yourself are giving examples of how its not. 1/4 is not needle in a haystack. How about the Bucks? Nothing higher than a 15th pick in their big 3. is so much a needle in a haystack I can name another team right off the bat that has done it. Damn., rare AF!

  16. #41
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Ok, but you just said the Heat didn't. And Curry was a 7th pick, hardly different than the 9th pick of the Spurs. And those Boston picks? Not from tanking, from trading with Brooklyn. They simply got incredibly lucky. Even the Mavs got super lucky by having 3 other teams pass on Luka. So if your argument is that you have to tank, your examples don't even prove that.

    People here severely overrate tanking. Even if the Spurs were some kind of treadmill team, after a few years at their current position, they'd end up with a top 4 pick about 50% of the time.
    Portland ABSOLUTELY went into the ter, kept Dame inactive, Kept Nurk inactive when he was ready, played 50% gleague teams nearly every night, fell all the way to the six spot, and will pick seventh.

  17. #42
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    I'm not sure his abilities have diminished but the more he takes on the offensive end the less energy he'll have to be a lock up defender. Not that he ever was that, but yeah, point stands.
    Still, you'd think leading the league in steals would give you an instant spot on All-NBA even if just 2nd team. It's not like he's been a slouch on either end.
    Last edited by Dex; 05-22-2022 at 08:58 AM.

  18. #43
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Still, you'd think leading the league in steals would give you an instant spot on All-NBA even if just 2nd team. It's not like he's been a slouch on either end.
    Who is he really replacing? If they had a 3rd team he probably makes it but at the end of the day it’s another pretty useless accolade.

  19. #44
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    The Heat are the needle in the haystack with their success. That type of success is very rare. Whether these teams got lucky in the Mavs with Doncic or the Warriors with Curry it still proves my point you have to have a top 10 pick usually to get a star in this league. In the last 30 years only, the Raptors won a le along with the Bucks with having a star player who wasn't a top 10 pick. Tanking unfortunately does work more often then not. The only other option to acquire top picks is through trade like you mentioned.
    The Heat play in a glamor market which primarily led to Butler's (don't buy this "culture" propaganda) signing the same way it did James and Bosh and by the time the former signed, he was a 1st overall pick caliber player.

    The same goes for the Raptors and S bag.

  20. #45
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    The Heat play in a glamor market which primarily led to Butler's (don't buy this "culture" propaganda) signing the same way it did James and Bosh and by the time the former signed, he was a 1st overall pick caliber player.

    The same goes for the Raptors and S bag.

    Can’t fault Miami for being a player destination as they really do have a solid culture of hard work. Pat Riley is a pretty damn good GM and Spo is a pretty damn good coach.

  21. #46
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    Can’t fault Miami for being a player destination as they really do have a solid culture of hard work. Pat Riley is a pretty damn good GM and Spo is a pretty damn good coach.
    The Heat were going nowhere fast at the time and had the same exact situation existed in Denver, Milwaukee, Utah, etc. he wouldn't have even given them the time of day.

  22. #47
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    The Heat were going nowhere fast at the time and had the same exact situation existed in Denver, Milwaukee, Utah, etc. he wouldn't have even given them the time of day.
    Those organizations do many things right also. Butler went to a decent team as the best player and leader. Didn’t want to play with perennial losers in Minny and Philly who couldn’t match his energy. I don’t see the problem?

  23. #48
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I'd say that just as there is no single way to win basketball games, there is no single way to assemble good basketball teams. Smart GMs are open to everything: draft work (moving up, moving down), trades, free agency, in house development, analytics, short tanks, etc...
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 05-22-2022 at 01:24 PM.

  24. #49
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The Heat were going nowhere fast at the time and had the same exact situation existed in Denver, Milwaukee, Utah, etc. he wouldn't have even given them the time of day.
    Yes, but also no. They were missing a star, but most of their best players are home-grown talent, including Richardson, whom they were able to use as the main trade piece. It's not very easy to imagine the Spurs as a destination a star would force his way to, but Butler had been traded multiple times before that, and the Spurs could have been one of those teams. If they prepare like Miami did and then strike like Minnesota did, they could have had the same success. As far as we've heard, Butler would have stayed in both Minny and Philly had they been willing to offer a max. He didn't seem obviously worth it at the time, but in retrospect, he was.

    Miami definitely has a lot of advantages, but the Spurs can adopt or emphasize a lot of the Heat's philosophies. They don't need to tank to get their stars, but they can't afford to not be ready in a situation where one becomes available. I don't know who the next Butler would be, but the Spurs can't afford to be in a bad position to make an offer and capitalize on the talent when he does show up.

  25. #50
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I'd say that just as there is no single way to win basketball games, there is no single way to assemble good basketball teams. Smart GMs are open to everything: draft work (moving up, moving down), trades, free agency, in house development, short tanks, etc...
    Yes! I’ll add perceived character issues but elite talent…

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