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  1. #676
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    this is the rule for citizen's arrests in georgia.

    arbery didnt commit any crime in their presence or within their immediate knowledge

    https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...cle-4/17-4-60/
    Trespassing not an offense?

  2. #677
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Trespassing not an offense?
    a) not a felony. you cant chase somebody down to arrest them unless its a felony (read the law above). you can still arrest somebody for a misdemeanor (most commonly a store-owner can detain a shoplifter) but the law specifies that somebody escaping cannot be arrested unless it was a felony (they want to avoid exactly the situation that happened, putting people needlessly in harms way)

    b) they didnt witness the trespass in question. they just saw him running on the street. has to be committed within their presence or immediate knowledge (read the law above)

    c) you cannot use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest

    citizen's arrest at gunpoint over trespassing?

  3. #678
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Your logic was that they shouldn't protect themselves all the same, philo.
    no my logic is that you shouldnt grab guns just to pursue somebody and create the deadly situation.

    the only reason anybody "feared for their lives" is because bubbas introduced guns into the equation

  4. #679
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    no my logic is that you shouldnt grab guns just to pursue somebody and create the deadly situation.

    the only reason anybody "feared for their lives" is because bubbas introduced guns into the equation
    I have no problem with you living your life that way. But the parameters for the debate is did they break the law?

    Based on what I know and have heard, I have seen nothing that says this is so.

    I'm open to the possibility of learning otherwise; but your snowflake tears won't make it so.

  5. #680
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I have no problem with you living your life that way. But the parameters for the debate is did they break the law?

    Based on what I know and have heard, I have seen nothing that says this is so.

    I'm open to the possibility of learning otherwise; but your snowflake tears won't make it so.
    i posted the law on citizens arrests above. it doesnt apply. they also broke the law by chasing down and killing the guy in the street

  6. #681
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    a) not a felony. you cant chase somebody down to arrest them unless its a felony (read the law above). you can still arrest somebody for a misdemeanor (most commonly a store-owner can detain a shoplifter) but the law specifies that somebody escaping cannot be arrested unless it was a felony (they want to avoid exactly the situation that happened, putting people needlessly in harms way)

    b) they didnt witness the trespass in question. they just saw him running on the street. has to be committed within their presence or immediate knowledge (read the law above)

    c) you cannot use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest

    citizen's arrest at gunpoint over trespassing?
    A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.
    AA fit the description of the man who had committed the trespassing crime. The men acted upon this immediate knowledge and attempted a citizen's arrest.

  7. #682
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    i posted the law on citizens arrests above. it doesnt apply. they also broke the law by chasing down and killing the guy in the street
    They had immediate knowledge of a crime for which Arbery had committed.

  8. #683
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    They had immediate knowledge of a crime for which Arbery had committed.
    No, that's not what that means, and walking into a vacant structure isn't a felony.

    Jeez you're re ed. You should thank spurraider for having the patience to explain this to you.

  9. #684
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    They had immediate knowledge of a crime for which Arbery had committed.
    what crime committed by arbery did they have immediate knowledge of?

    note that georgia law has held more than once that "immediate knowledge" is synonymous with the crime being committed in their presence



    https://law.justia.com/cases/georgia...7/31907-1.html

  10. #685
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    No, that's not what that means, and walking into a vacant structure isn't a felony.

    Jeez you're re ed. You should thank spurraider for having the patience to explain this to you.
    The law states that a person can be citizen arrested for an offense (misdemeanor or felony) if the person has witnessed it or has "immediate knowledge".Thus we see that the citizen arrest is lawful.

    The second part, philo is just trying to confuse the matter. It's basically saying that if the crime rises to a felony, then anyone may citizen arrest the potential offender even on just su ion rather than having to hit the higher standard of having witnessed the crime or having "immediate knowledge."

    Ten leagues, bruh.

  11. #686
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    The law states that a person can be citizen arrested for an offense (misdemeanor or felony) if the person has witnessed it or has "immediate knowledge".Thus we see that the citizen arrest is lawful.
    so what crime was committed by arbery which the bubbas had immediate knowledge of?

    again, as stated above, georgia law holds "immediate knowledge" and "in the presence of" as synonymous

  12. #687
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    "thus"

  13. #688
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    so what crime was committed by arbery which the bubbas had immediate knowledge of?

    again, as stated above, georgia law holds "immediate knowledge" and "in the presence of" as synonymous
    The write-up example you give is based on evidentiary knowledge and not "in the presence of".

    Lite

  14. #689
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    How did this happen? Muh Mentor Lite is a lawyer and everything!

  15. #690
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    so what crime was committed by arbery which the bubbas had immediate knowledge of?

    again, as stated above, georgia law holds "immediate knowledge" and "in the presence of" as synonymous
    why do you argue with ignorant?

  16. #691
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    ElNono been reduced to an ankle biter.

  17. #692
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    yah, that's what's going on in here

  18. #693
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    Yea, "reduced" was generous. Frankly, it's right up your alley.

  19. #694
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    sure, you also thought rolling out a sock puppet was really showing him

    smh

  20. #695
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    The write-up example you give is based on evidentiary knowledge and not "in the presence of".

    Lite
    No. The court relied on other rulings that an admission is tantamount to the crime being committed in their presence.

    What crime did arbery commit within the immediate knowledge of the bubbas?

  21. #696
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    I don't think the legal aspect matters that much. The lives of the two perps were not in immediate danger but they put themselves and the victim into a very hazardous situation by pursuing. There's no way the victim would have known anything about who was pursuing, and when two fat white bearded rednecks with guns jump out of a truck after chasing you, you know you cannot outrun the long gun so what are you going to do?

    I think this is the point. There was no reason any trespassing or even theft of property (of someone else) should ever be escalated to armed pursuit by civilians. This isn't the wild west.

  22. #697
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I don't think the legal aspect matters that much. The lives of the two perps were not in immediate danger but they put themselves and the victim into a very hazardous situation by pursuing. There's no way the victim would have known anything about who was pursuing, and when two fat white bearded rednecks with guns jump out of a truck after chasing you, you know you cannot outrun the long gun so what are you going to do?

    I think this is the point. There was no reason any trespassing or even theft of property (of someone else) should ever be escalated to armed pursuit by civilians. This isn't the wild west.
    All true.

    Just wanted to let derp know that his “citizens arrest” crap fails at all levels

  23. #698
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    No. The court relied on other rulings that an admission is tantamount to the crime being committed in their presence.

    What crime did arbery commit within the immediate knowledge of the bubbas?
    Immediate knowledge is what it is. You're trying to pretend the case limited that when all it did was uphold the law.

  24. #699
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Immediate knowledge is what it is.
    what crime did arbery commit within the immediate knowledge of the bubbas?


    You're trying to pretend the case limited that when all it did was uphold the law.
    The terms "in the presence of" and "within his immediate knowledge" have been held to be synonymous. Piedmont Hotel Co. v. Henderson, 9 Ga. App. 672, 681 (72 SE 51) (1911). See also Humphrey v. State, 231 Ga. 855 (204 SE2d 603) (1974). The Court of Appeals recently reached a similar result in *550 Moore v. State, 128 Ga. App. 20 (195 SE2d 275) (1973), where it was held that an admission of an offense by an accused to the arresting party is tantamount to the commission of the offense in the presence of the party making the arrest. Whether the offense is said to be in the presence of, or within the immediate knowledge of, the arresting party, the result is the same as the two phrases mean the same thing.
    https://law.justia.com/cases/georgia...7/31907-1.html

  25. #700
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    what crime did arbery commit within the immediate knowledge of the bubbas?
    Trespassing.

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