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  1. #326
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    i can't see how LMA has any value other than an expiring contract.
    Tend to agree, and there simply are fewer and fewer long-term bad contracts these days where a team will throw sink to get off it. It will have to be a desperation move by a would be contender like MIA or BOS

  2. #327
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    He seems to play great against teams and that makes people think he's a really good to great player, but in the end, without a three point shot, he's just too limited when going up against the upper echelon teams.

    He can take you to the point of contention, but then will bring you back down due to his limitations. He really needed to work on a three point shot, and Aldridge really needed to lose weight and be more mobile. Both have go no-one to blame but themselves if they have to leave and sign for a lot less money than they expected. It's all on them.
    First I don't blame you for skipping out on 2019-2020 season. Easily the most unwatchable the team has had and not just for the lack of playoffs. It was the Forbes/Belinelli show before Corona, Lonnie Walker getting a raw deal from his coach, and the games 3 months after shutdown were purely exhibition.

    Now to your points on DeRozan and his 3's. It's the one issue I have with him which has made me agnostic on him returning altogether, and certainly not at a max contract.

    Per B-Ball Reference, He's ranked 190th in the league in 3pt-attempt per game.
    Surprisingly his 1.9 attempts per game are the third highest of his career, so he has improved his effort based solely on his own track record.

    DeRozan 3-pt attempt per Game for his career



    To see how 1.9 per game stacks up, here's the 3pt Attempt-per-Game for the 2 best players of teams ahead of San Antonio record-wise so far.

    3-pt Attempt per Game for 2020-2021.


    There's a lot of comments on why Patty Mills (6.7 per gm, 27th rank in attempts) stays on the court routinely.
    ...It wouldn't be unfair to say that DeRozan's lack of attempts is a factor in Mills' necessity, whether for spreading the floor or just hitting the damn shot.

  3. #328
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    what is the actual market value of our next to be free agents?

    Let's try some numbers...in the wiew of our player's value for other teams

    DDR..............difficult to say, in a dry market having no 3 point shot for a guard/wing is a big minus.....I don't see a team offering max but I'd say anything from 15 to 30 a year depending on the team

    LMA.............bad season till now but worth consideration for his offensive ability and his past................No way near his last contract but I'd say anything from min. to mid level depending on the team

    Gay............good season till now but too old............................................... .................................................. ...................................I'd say the same things said for LMA

    Lyles..........no playing time till now, but good behavior and at least decent production for the minutes played........................................I'd say from minimum to max 6/7 millions

    Mills..........decent/good season till now for his capabilities, but because of his defense he's an obvious liability.......................................I' d say anything from 5/6 millions to the mid level

    different thoughts?
    How can anyone disagree when you barbell their market value like that. 15-30mm is huge, vet min to MLE? This league has more liquidity, even during COVID.

  4. #329
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Not Lavine. He’s not in that group. Beal and KAT are head and shoulders above him.
    you also get Lavine for 20mm first year. This season he is not far off of Beal and KAT. I’m not in love with these scenarios just anxious to move on from the status quo while giving our young bulls a complimentary scorer not named DDR; ideally who can shoot 40% from deep on volume.

  5. #330
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    I haven't been around much the past season or so, as it took me a while to get over the Kawhi fiasco (I watched most of the games the first season after he left, but sort of had a hangover last season and didn't want to watch many of the games), however, I made a concerted effort to try and watch every single Spurs game this season because I really did like the potential of some of the young guys. I guess it started with Derrick White and Dejounte in the first season Kawhi left/was traded, and I've liked the draft picks since then too, so I wanted to start watching every single game again. It was also the first time in my life since I became a Spurs fan in '93/'94 where I didn't follow every single game (I couldn't start watching games until 2004 in my country, but before then I followed every game online in some form or another - 90% of the time live). Maybe I also needed a break from Basketball as I was so into it during the D-Rob/TD era and what I thought was going to be the Kawhi era (I also think it's a good thing that I've been able to step back and realize there is other more important stuff. I still love basketball, though, especially when it's played the right way like the Spurs try to).

    Anyway, I digress, so back to the topic at hand. I just haven't been around much the past season/season and a half prior to this one to follow Duncan2K5s posts, so I'll take your word on it for the reasons everyone keeps crapping on him. I just thought his points in that post were really accurate and that is what I've thought the past year or two about DeMar now that I've had a good enough look/handle on his game and mental makeup/temperament in tight/big games.



    I didn't think this before, but seeing how some of these young players are playing now, I looked back at the Raptors and where they were when he left. I really do think DeMar had a pretty big hand in helping some of these young guys get better and become better players, but I think that is the endpoint with him as a leader/player to build your team around. If you want to go any further, he's not the guy to take you there as a number one option. I'm not even sure if he's best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option on a Championship level team. I am leaning towards 3rd option. His lack of three point shot is a killer and really holds him back. These past few years in SA, he really should have made a huge effort to add one to his game. It's all on him for not doing so.
    Yeah, even duncan2k5 himself has posted that he and I share a lot of views on things even though we argue a lot. The problem is his approach to replying to people who show the least bit of openness to the possibility of DeMar and LMA returning to the team. He feels compelled to argue his ass off every single time a word is said about either of these two, as if he wants to force his own opinion onto others and have us become a sort of cult-- one where everybody hates on both DeMar and LMA. He can't accept other people's opinions and will write paragraphs of re-hashed topics every. single. damn. time.

    I'm not even to attached to DeMar or LaMarcus and he always acts like I do or anyone for that matter. *I don't care* if they are gone after this season.

    duncak2k5, you need to ing let go of your demons and stop having a Trump-like at ude to people having other opinions. Not everyone has to have the same opinion as you.

  6. #331
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    Would you rate Bradley Beal as a star? He's one player I am very interested in getting. What do you guys think of Beal? Would he be worth it, and/or would the price be too steep? I think the Clippers tried to get him before getting Paul George, and I think they would have been a better team if they were able to trade for him instead. I mean, on paper Paul George is the more logical choice when the best players in the NBA right now are SF/PF hybrids, but I still think Beal is a better player than PG. I don't know, PG could prove me wrong these playoffs, but I've never been impressed with him come playoff time (despite his playoff failures, I was still a fan of PG until these previous playoffs, as I like his overall game and keep thinking he'll turn a corner, but last year's playoffs have made me to start doubting he'll reach his full potential. I guess we will see this time around).
    Absolutely NO to Beal. I don't understand people infatuation with this guy. All he does is put up stats on a bad team because somebody has to. The price for him is going to be ultra steep as well. You need 28 mil worth of salary so off the top you looking at trading Dejounte, White, plus whatever is left to make salaries work plus a 1st round pick if not multiple first round picks. So you get rid of the strength of your team, your perimeter guards, and the strength of your front office, hitting on 1st round picks, so you can get a guy who isn't good enough to keep his team from being one of the 6 worst teams in the nba every year ? Hard no.

    You not a fan of PG cause he chokes in the playoffs, then how could you be a fan of Beal who can't even get to the playoffs, IN THE EAST

  7. #332
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Absolutely NO to Beal. I don't understand people infatuation with this guy. All he does is put up stats on a bad team because somebody has to. The price for him is going to be ultra steep as well. You need 28 mil worth of salary so off the top you looking at trading Dejounte, White, plus whatever is left to make salaries work plus a 1st round pick if not multiple first round picks. So you get rid of the strength of your team, your perimeter guards, and the strength of your front office, hitting on 1st round picks, so you can get a guy who isn't good enough to keep his team from being one of the 6 worst teams in the nba every year ? Hard no.

    You not a fan of PG cause he chokes in the playoffs, then how could you be a fan of Beal who can't even get to the playoffs, IN THE EAST
    He's leading the entire league in scoring by a good margin, it's not like he's putting up 20ppg. His team is also a complete trainwreck (seriously, look at their roster, it's complete trash). Beal is 10x better than anyone we have on our roster and it's unlikely any player we have will ever end up being a 32ppg scorer. if you can get him, you do it. I love D. White and Lonnie as much as the next guy but you don't hold onto role players out of sentiment if there a real impact player on the table

  8. #333
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    He's leading the entire league in scoring by a good margin, it's not like he's putting up 20ppg. His team is also a complete trainwreck (seriously, look at their roster, it's complete trash). Beal is 10x better than anyone we have on our roster and it's unlikely any player we have will ever end up being a 32ppg scorer. if you can get him, you do it. I love D. White and Lonnie as much as the next guy but you don't hold onto role players out of sentiment if there a real impact player on the table
    Trading White is very hard because of salary rules. His incoming basically accounts for his higher post-extension salary but outgoing only his current contract.

    But framework is right. If you’re getting Beal, trading one of Murray/White plus Walker is something you do yesterday assuming price isn’t crazy beyond that. But it’ll be another first at the very least.

  9. #334
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    He's leading the entire league in scoring by a good margin, it's not like he's putting up 20ppg. His team is also a complete trainwreck (seriously, look at their roster, it's complete trash). Beal is 10x better than anyone we have on our roster and it's unlikely any player we have will ever end up being a 32ppg scorer. if you can get him, you do it. I love D. White and Lonnie as much as the next guy but you don't hold onto role players out of sentiment if there a real impact player on the table
    Who cares about his 32ppg when he couldn't cover a corpse with a white sheet. Roster isn't great but they have nba level talent on it. Russel Westbrook is a former mvp who once took okc to the playoffs surrounded by the worst shooting in the league. Riu and Deni are top 10 lottery picks. Bertans was a top tier 3 point shooter last year and got paid like it. If I told you a team had a former mvp, a current all star, two top 10 lottery picks, and a top tier 3 point shooter, I do not think you would say that is one of the worst teams in the league.

    Beal hasn't done anything but play on lottery teams since Wall got hurt. I think one of the reasons why is because all he offers is scoring a bunch of points on a lot of volume shooting. Thanks but no thanks, that isn't what we need. Also there is no way you are getting Beal without giving up Dejounte, who is playing all nba level defense and flashing all star level offense occasionally. He is the number one guy the wizards are going to ask for.

    At thinking the wizards would be like "hey san antonio you know that guard you got that keeps getting all these weird foot injuries and missing the first 20 games of the season, yeah that is the guy we want to trade for bradley beal"

  10. #335
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    They could just sign him outright, though they're looking at missing the playoffs, a play-in scenario, or a very low seed this season after making the Finals last season. The pressure is on for them to try and improve. Not only that, but having him on the team ahead of FA gives them a leg-up on re-signing him.

    As for why DeMar, they've been linked to him for a while now. His fit is a bit sketchy with Butler, considering neither really take 3's and neither does Bam but if their interest is real then they must have an idea for how to incorporate him.

    If there is a deal to be made between the Spurs and the Heat then altering the protections on a first that they already owe is a way to entice the Spurs into dealing DDR, as well as keeping them from giving up another young player like Robinson in a deal. Its still unlikely, but if true, then they might have enough assets, after all, to be make a deal.
    They've got a good chance to finish top 6 (Knicks will probably drop out) and the likely top 2 (Nets and Bucks) would leave a likely 3-6 of 76ers, Celtics, Raptors and them, which is a virtual coin flip. I suspect they'd be fine with that and I don't think a surprising run to the Finals last season has created pressure or is going to lead them to do something foolish.

    I know, but I'm skeptical of the veracity.

  11. #336
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    I can't help noticing that even the guys who are (sort of) standing up for DeRozan are still awfully lukewarm on him. I'd think a true positive force for this team would be much more enthusiastically embraced. I get the takes some have on him, and I'd impressed by his improvement with regards to distribution & assist numbers, but I still think the Spurs move towards being contenders faster without him than with him.
    Lol, you hit it on the head, lukewarm is a good word.

    At its core, I just don't see DeMar as a player that will help you win (contend, more like) on his own, BUT as evidenced by the team's chemistry, growth and play, he can play a role as a developmental figure, and "hold the fort" until our young guys are ready to blossom. In a way, I see him like CP3, who had a great stint in OKC mentoring SGA, and now is really helping a young Suns squad and Booker specifically to reach their potential. Those kinds of players aren't easy to come by, so there's value to me in keeping DeMar for at least a couple more seasons (though I'd want no part of a deal extending beyond 2 years, maybe 3 at the most if the last season is partially guaranteed); but at the same time, as he won't really help the team contend (at least while he's the #1 option like he is on this Spurs squad), I wouldn't be very sad if he left. I think his on-court production can be replaced with a step forward by some of our youngings, but his true value lies elsewhere, and that's something that I'd worry we'll have trouble replacing.

    I think posters who are anti-resigning DD at all costs, are looking at it from a perspective that DeMar is exclusively a win-now player, which is inaccurate and doesn't represent the entirety of the value he brings to the Spurs right now. At the same time, I also understand that keeping DeMar for any amount of time, will surely prevent the Spurs from bottoming out and playing the lottery game to get a top-level prospect: in my opinion, the Spurs have an amount of intriguing, upside-heavy prospects to the point that they might as well try to see how far they can make it, instead of shipping DD out and going full-tank, which would be counter-productive to the "iden y" that the Spurs have right now. The FO also certainly doesn't want to tank right now, so it's easy to see the direction the team is heading towards, and see how it makes sense keeping DeRozan in the short term.

  12. #337
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    I agree with Poopbox. I wouldn't be looking to trade for Beal. IMO, to seriously compete, we need a ring-worthy #1 option. Derozan ain't that guy. If Beal was that guy, the Wizards would make the playoffs a lot more often during Beal's career... I don't think Beal is better than Derozan (from a wins generated PoV), and he's going to be a lot more expensive. KAT is pretty much in the same boat. We need to be looking for a Kawhi trade or a Durant S&T, not burning talent on guys who aren't worth a max, but will want to get paid it.

  13. #338
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    Absolutely NO to Beal. I don't understand people infatuation with this guy. All he does is put up stats on a bad team because somebody has to. The price for him is going to be ultra steep as well. You need 28 mil worth of salary so off the top you looking at trading Dejounte, White, plus whatever is left to make salaries work plus a 1st round pick if not multiple first round picks. So you get rid of the strength of your team, your perimeter guards, and the strength of your front office, hitting on 1st round picks, so you can get a guy who isn't good enough to keep his team from being one of the 6 worst teams in the nba every year ? Hard no.

    You not a fan of PG cause he chokes in the playoffs, then how could you be a fan of Beal who can't even get to the playoffs, IN THE EAST
    You don't need to send out equal salary if you have the cap space to absorb a portion of his contract, so there's no need to combine white and Murray.

  14. #339
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    We have won ZERO Championship by acquiring a Super Star type of player the only way we will ever win is getting lucky with draft Like we did in getting David and Timmy.

  15. #340
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Who cares about his 32ppg when he couldn't cover a corpse with a white sheet. Roster isn't great but they have nba level talent on it. Russel Westbrook is a former mvp who once took okc to the playoffs surrounded by the worst shooting in the league. Riu and Deni are top 10 lottery picks. Bertans was a top tier 3 point shooter last year and got paid like it. If I told you a team had a former mvp, a current all star, two top 10 lottery picks, and a top tier 3 point shooter, I do not think you would say that is one of the worst teams in the league.

    Beal hasn't done anything but play on lottery teams since Wall got hurt. I think one of the reasons why is because all he offers is scoring a bunch of points on a lot of volume shooting. Thanks but no thanks, that isn't what we need. Also there is no way you are getting Beal without giving up Dejounte, who is playing all nba level defense and flashing all star level offense occasionally. He is the number one guy the wizards are going to ask for.

    At thinking the wizards would be like "hey san antonio you know that guard you got that keeps getting all these weird foot injuries and missing the first 20 games of the season, yeah that is the guy we want to trade for bradley beal"
    "Who cares about 32ppg" stopped reading right there.

  16. #341
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    "Who cares about 32ppg" stopped reading right there.
    With a take dumb as this I'm shot you were even able to start reading tbh

    Actually you and I both know your legal guardian read it for you

  17. #342
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Lol cringe response

  18. #343
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    That was a bull travel call...

  19. #344
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    We have won ZERO Championship by acquiring a Super Star type of player the only way we will ever win is getting lucky with draft Like we did in getting David and Timmy.
    We have a Luka


  20. #345
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    We have won ZERO Championship by acquiring a Super Star type of player the only way we will ever win is getting lucky with draft Like we did in getting David and Timmy.
    Granted Spurs were lucky with Timmy and DRob, but Spurs have won 5 and that’s not lucky. And you can’t call the beautiful game “lucky.” Having 1st round picks don’t guarantee championship(s) either. Go ask Philly. My point is there is more than luck, it’s great management, and Spurs has shown that. I think Spurs have the key players and only missing a 20/10 PF/C to replace Aldridge to become a contender. It could be Luka or it could be from FA. I trust the PATFO will get that player however, but for sure not from “luck.”

  21. #346
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    Absolutely NO to Beal. I don't understand people infatuation with this guy. All he does is put up stats on a bad team because somebody has to. The price for him is going to be ultra steep as well. You need 28 mil worth of salary so off the top you looking at trading Dejounte, White, plus whatever is left to make salaries work plus a 1st round pick if not multiple first round picks. So you get rid of the strength of your team, your perimeter guards, and the strength of your front office, hitting on 1st round picks, so you can get a guy who isn't good enough to keep his team from being one of the 6 worst teams in the nba every year ? Hard no.

    You not a fan of PG cause he chokes in the playoffs, then how could you be a fan of Beal who can't even get to the playoffs, IN THE EAST
    Doesn't Beal have a massive usage rate? Seems an awful idea to take the ball out of the hands of the youth brigade. Just having them stand around and watch. DeRozan is so effective because he circulates the ball. His assists are high and TOs extremely low.

  22. #347
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    "Who cares about 32ppg" stopped reading right there.
    Grandpa stats. How many shots does he take to get that?

  23. #348
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    Beal takes 23 shots a game. He makes $28 million and the next two years $34 and $37 million. I'd rather those shots and that money go to our developing players.

    He's also a pretty terrible defender. (DDR is actually slightly positive this year.)

  24. #349
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    Beal takes 23 shots a game. He makes $28 million and the next two years $34 and $37 million. I'd rather those shots and that money go to our developing players.

    He's also a pretty terrible defender. (DDR is actually slightly positive this year.)
    This is like saying wouldn’t smash a certain model, when everyone knows if the model came up to you...you’d cream your pants and beg to carry her purse. Beal isn’t coming here

  25. #350
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    Beal takes 23 shots a game. He makes $28 million and the next two years $34 and $37 million. I'd rather those shots and that money go to our developing players.

    He's also a pretty terrible defender. (DDR is actually slightly positive this year.)
    honestly amazing to me it’s 20 MFing 21 and we are still doing “trade our young cornerstones and picks for Beal” discourse on ST

    We trade White, Samanic, etc... for Beal and now have a team led by Demar and Beal! Great, now what?

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