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  1. #26
    GetalifewoodU Strategic's Avatar
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    May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.

  2. #27
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.
    Nope. He’s supposedly excited about coaching the youngsters.

  3. #28
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.
    We can only hope. He seems more enthused than ever to coach though. No accountability. If they outperform he is a genius. If they lose they were supposed to. All while slowly adding to his win totals and cutting a check for 12mm while travelling first class, eating and drinking like a king while everyone coddles and patronizes him. Pop is the real winner here.

  4. #29
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-m...antonio-spurs/

    Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

    The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

    I agree with everything except getting Atlanta's 2023 pick...and that simply a product of me believing they have a good chance of missing the playoffs but, I agree with the strategy if one believes they'll make the playoffs.

    The one thing you didn't cover yet that would be interesting to know is: what's next? Is there a way to make a trade to get Charlotte to lift their protection on the pick next season? What do we do with Poeltl? Do we extend KJ or move him and what would he bring?

  5. #30
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I agree with everything except getting Atlanta's 2023 pick...and that simply a product of me believing they have a good chance of missing the playoffs but, I agree with the strategy if one believes they'll make the playoffs.

    The one thing you didn't cover yet that would be interesting to know is: what's next? Is there a way to make a trade to get Charlotte to lift their protection on the pick next season? What do we do with Poeltl? Do we extend KJ or move him and what would he bring?
    Doubt they do that and the Bridges situation just got messy after he caught a domestic. CHA could very well be lottery bound next year.

  6. #31
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    Doubt they do that and the Bridges situation just got messy after he caught a domestic. CHA could very well be lottery bound next year.
    I am curious about the Bridges part of the equation... if Detroit or Charlotte still max him out (Charlotte matching in the scenario that Detroit maxes him) then I think we are in a good position to deal with Charlotte on a Poeltl deal. Conversely, if it is bad enough that Charlotte doesn't want Bridges anymore it yakes pressure off of them needing to move salary and we might not be able to deal...unless it's a trade centered around KJ and McDermott where they see KJ as the best Bridges replacement they can acquire in a weak FA class.

  7. #32
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    SpursTalk: WHY DOES PATFO NEVER DO ANYTHING!? WE ALWAYS JUST STAND PAT AND STAY MEDIOCRE!

    PATFO: Does something.

    Also SpursTalk: WHAT ARE WE DOING!?!? WE'RE GONNA SUCK NEXT YEAR AND THE TEAM IS GOING TO MOVE TO THE MOON!

  8. #33
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I am curious about the Bridges part of the equation... if Detroit or Charlotte still max him out (Charlotte matching in the scenario that Detroit maxes him) then I think we are in a good position to deal with Charlotte on a Poeltl deal. Conversely, if it is bad enough that Charlotte doesn't want Bridges anymore it yakes pressure off of them needing to move salary and we might not be able to deal...unless it's a trade centered around KJ and McDermott where they see KJ as the best Bridges replacement they can acquire in a weak FA class.
    Depends if he just gave some chick a lil love tap or he went Breezy on her.

    Charlotte wasn’t looking to max him. His value just went down no doubt but that is probably a bonus to outside suitors. Charlotte will have a real dilemma in their hands. Someone may thristy enough to offer him the max I feel.

  9. #34
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    Depends if he just gave some chick a lil love tap or he went Breezy on her.

    Charlotte wasn’t looking to max him. His value just went down no doubt but that is probably a bonus to outside suitors. Charlotte will have a real dilemma in their hands. Someone may thristy enough to offer him the max I feel.
    I hope you're right and someone offers him the max...that would put a good bit of pressure on Charlotte to make a deal...either to shed salary or replace him...

  10. #35
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Agree mostly timvp. Disagree with the framing of the OO part of negotiations. Sure as it stands ATL said OO or an unprotected 1st. But that doesn’t mean it had to be that way. SA should have walked away with OO and all the unprotected picks.

    Should not have been either or. Maybe give up the CHA pick instead. But SA had multiple teams making offers, and it’s hard to swallow trading an AS PG and not walking away with anything tangible to celebrate immediately imo.

    Still a high upside haul, but Sa left meat on the bone which you don’t do with trading young all stars and multiple bidders.

  11. #36
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    Agree mostly timvp. Disagree with the framing of the OO part of negotiations. Sure as it stands ATL said OO or an unprotected 1st. But that doesn’t mean it had to be that way. SA should have walked away with OO and all the unprotected picks.

    Should not have been either or. Maybe give up the CHA pick instead. But SA had multiple teams making offers, and it’s hard to swallow trading an AS PG and not walking away with anything tangible to celebrate immediately imo.

    Still a high upside haul, but Sa left meat on the bone which you don’t do with trading young all stars and multiple bidders.
    The other offers extent unprotected picks...huge difference...also OO isn't as valuable as any pick we recieved...not even the Charlotte pick..

  12. #37
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The other offers extent unprotected picks...huge difference...also OO isn't as valuable as any pick we recieved...not even the Charlotte pick..
    OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick

  13. #38
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    OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick
    A 6'8" C who can't shoot in today's game? Good luck with that...

  14. #39
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Sniff Crew finally embracing the tank after 4 years and making it seem like it's some novel concept they just thought of....

    It'd be hilarious if this dumbass FO ended up throwing big money at Ayton now tbh

  15. #40
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-m...antonio-spurs/

    Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

    The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

    Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

    It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

    A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

    I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

    There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.

  16. #41
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    One big takeaway I get from this trade is that the Spurs will probably use their cap space to absorb bad contracts and collect picks, not just this year but next year and maybe 2024 too.

    For a while I thought the Spurs were lining up their cap space to be a major player in 2023 free agency, and without this Murray trade maybe that would have been the goal (to pivot into win-now mode).

    The upshot is that, while Gallinari won't command a first by himself, he is useful salary ballast to absorb a bad contract and receive a pick. In usefulness as a player he is somewhere between Aminu and Thad Young. His contract is also more useful to a team looking to shed salary than McD, who has an extra year after this one.

  17. #42
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

    It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

    A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

    I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

    There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.
    Bird in hand. There was no upside to waiting. Murray wasn’t going to become mvp and up his value any more. He could get injured or ATL move on etc…it met their asking price and no upside in waiting imo and I don’t even “love” the deal personally

  18. #43
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Beyond that - it’s done heading into opening of FA so SA can confidently execute their plans now with what appears to be a clear direction.

    I do wonder what deals they passed on during draft for Jakob or Richardson now though? If they didn’t trade them because they thought they’d keep Murray that’s a bummer. Volume will be slightly lower now that DJ is gone and teams know SA is moving guys. But not a huge deal - Murray value was priority 1-100.

  19. #44
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Bird in hand. There was no upside to waiting. Murray wasn’t going to become mvp and up his value any more. He could get injured or ATL move on etc…it met their asking price and no upside in waiting imo and I don’t even “love” the deal personally
    Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

    I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

  20. #45
    Make a trade steal
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    OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick
    OO was instead of one of the unprotected picks.

  21. #46
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    DJ would only get this team so far, plus he’s a twitter-happy, not very Spursy. I rather Spurs jumped off the mediocrity threadmill and get 3 FRP’s for it. They can either use those to draft the next real player to build around, or even use as a package in case a disgruntled player like Donovan wants out (just an example).

    Primo will be better than Murray. Murray’s game was flawed in so many ways, hesitant to attack the rim in contact and getting to the ft line, ball stuck in his hands, gambling on steals despite the steal leader resulting to his guy blowing pass him at times. I hate to say it, but Murray pads stats imo to get that all important AS nod, steal leader, individual glory. Primo has more steady hand at that age, is not impetous and seems more steady to be the captain of the ship. I know Pop believes so. He is a lottery pick the Spurs bet against all pundits. And I know Pop would love that opportunity to wipe it on those so called experts.

    It’s truly the new era after that Kawhi debacle imo, which have left the franchise in disarray for 4 years. It’s 4 years overdue to finally blow it up than continue patching the leaks. And it’s the new beginning in the hands of Primo. It’s crazy but I think we might just see Obiwan Pop with his new Padawan turning a lot of heads Or at least that’s what I told my wife when keeping the league pass

  22. #47
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    The Spurs didn't have to dump Murray to tank. He was the one guy on the team worth keeping into the future. You get rid of Poetl and Johnson and Murray plus a bunch of rookies isn't taking you farther than 25 wins. timvp what exactly are the Spurs seeing in Primo? You make it sound like they think he's another Tony Parker or something, but Parker was killing from the very beginning in summer league to the point Seattle came knocking with a Gary Payton offer like two games into the summer league.

  23. #48
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    Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

    I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."
    There are two fallacies in your argument here...1) You point out all those 'what if's' but don't point out the 'what if's' in the other direction...what if DJ gets hurt? What if we can't find an allstar to pair with him? What if he regressed this year? (All are just as likely as the ones you pointed out) and 2) you keep declaring that we got mediocre picks...and that's flat out untrue... While the likelihood is that they will be late lottery picks in 25 26 and 27 they could be worse but being unprotected makes them very valuable as currency in future trades...we've heard for a week how we'd never get even 1 unprotected pick in a dj deal and yet we got 2 and an unprotected swap....thats quite the haul in today's market....and before you jump in and say...we'll never trade those Atlanta picks we'll wait and use them.... I'll point out that if one of our guys currently on the roster flashes all star type growth this year or next...and we add an all star talent in this draft with our own top 6 pick we could very well cash in that currency on a real current all star in 2 years....

    The bottom line is that no matter how much whining people do here to justify their personal fan boy motives we are much closer to competing for a championship today than we were yesterday. There was no path to that while DJ was still here...now we have a shot at it with more work left to do...

  24. #49
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

    I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."
    You may not like it, but that is the answer I gave you. Nothing, even the externalities you mentioned, superseded the importance of getting what SA wanted in a Murray deal. That was the singular most important thing, they got what they demanded which they didnt think they would and not taking that type of deal now put everything else at risk.

  25. #50
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    OO was instead of one of the unprotected picks.
    Did you read what I wrote lol? I know that. Im saying SA should not have let them dictate that. Walk away if they hold firm on that vs subbing the CHA pick instead.

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