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  1. #176
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    Hopefully that's the case and the Spurs sell high on him. Although I doubt the Spurs trade him at all.
    That's my hope...sell high..

  2. #177
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    You may be absolutely right...and your opinion is the consensus here on ST but, I think its different around the league.
    Yeah, Sam Vecenie of the athletic still ranks Dejounte as the best young player of the spurs ahead of White in his top 50 rookie scale prospect rankings. I think Dejounte is 32 while White is 38 overall. Keldon and Lonnie are still unranked.

  3. #178
    Club Rookie of The Year DJR210's Avatar
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    I think he views himself as a star or star in the making. He was crowned as Parker's heir (a mistake). When he's a starter he says the right things, but every time he comes off the bench his body language is terrible.
    Yeah he caries himself professionally the same way he does on his IG

  4. #179
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    It's crazy how much ST has swung on Murray. There was a time when I was dying on a hill of "Murray's defense is overrated". I went back and read through some of those threads just now. It was an ocean of people saying he was a mini-Kawhi. It was exhausting at the time, but I do feel vindicated somewhat. I wish I'd been wrong though. As I've said before, the biggest issue is Murray's at ude. His production is overrated, but it's still fine and could be really good with the right role. But he has never seemed willing to do that, even when he was a rookie. He always seemed to think success would just fall to him. Like sure, he'd "work" and reach that level on his own, but it'd be like a Rocky montage where he would inevitably over the course of some pre-determined steps get to the top of that staircase.

    But no, he's been too meta about this from the start. He was talking about how he had graduated from the d-league after his first true call-up. He kept framing his benchings as a process young players go through. He always focused on the flashy things rather than the fundamental things. And it sucks. I wish he was right and was basically De'Aaron Fox or SGA right now. I wish his swagger and loyalty were the start of a movement. But he's not, and it's not, and they won't be. He needs a fresh start, hopefully from a place that values him and has something SA wants. Atlanta is a good option, as is GS. I don't really think Detroit is, but they might be able to use him. The Spurs need to move on, because it seems like the relationship is on the verge of turning cancerous. He's totally a wolf held by the ears right now.

  5. #180
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    It's crazy how much ST has swung on Murray. There was a time when I was dying on a hill of "Murray's defense is overrated". I went back and read through some of those threads just now. It was an ocean of people saying he was a mini-Kawhi. It was exhausting at the time, but I do feel vindicated somewhat. I wish I'd been wrong though. As I've said before, the biggest issue is Murray's at ude. His production is overrated, but it's still fine and could be really good with the right role. But he has never seemed willing to do that, even when he was a rookie. He always seemed to think success would just fall to him. Like sure, he'd "work" and reach that level on his own, but it'd be like a Rocky montage where he would inevitably over the course of some pre-determined steps get to the top of that staircase.

    But no, he's been too meta about this from the start. He was talking about how he had graduated from the d-league after his first true call-up. He kept framing his benchings as a process young players go through. He always focused on the flashy things rather than the fundamental things. And it sucks. I wish he was right and was basically De'Aaron Fox or SGA right now. I wish his swagger and loyalty were the start of a movement. But he's not, and it's not, and they won't be. He needs a fresh start, hopefully from a place that values him and has something SA wants. Atlanta is a good option, as is GS. I don't really think Detroit is, but they might be able to use him. The Spurs need to move on, because it seems like the relationship is on the verge of turning cancerous. He's totally a wolf held by the ears right now.
    I could see Atlanta or Detroit trading their pick for him. I think he'd fit great in GS but, whst would a trade like that look like in your opinion?

  6. #181
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    For all the flaws he has, what use would he be to another club?

    And why wouldn't those reasons apply here, in SA?

  7. #182
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    It's crazy how much ST has swung on Murray. There was a time when I was dying on a hill of "Murray's defense is overrated". I went back and read through some of those threads just now. It was an ocean of people saying he was a mini-Kawhi. It was exhausting at the time, but I do feel vindicated somewhat. I wish I'd been wrong though. As I've said before, the biggest issue is Murray's at ude. His production is overrated, but it's still fine and could be really good with the right role. But he has never seemed willing to do that, even when he was a rookie. He always seemed to think success would just fall to him. Like sure, he'd "work" and reach that level on his own, but it'd be like a Rocky montage where he would inevitably over the course of some pre-determined steps get to the top of that staircase.

    But no, he's been too meta about this from the start. He was talking about how he had graduated from the d-league after his first true call-up. He kept framing his benchings as a process young players go through. He always focused on the flashy things rather than the fundamental things. And it sucks. I wish he was right and was basically De'Aaron Fox or SGA right now. I wish his swagger and loyalty were the start of a movement. But he's not, and it's not, and they won't be. He needs a fresh start, hopefully from a place that values him and has something SA wants. Atlanta is a good option, as is GS. I don't really think Detroit is, but they might be able to use him. The Spurs need to move on, because it seems like the relationship is on the verge of turning cancerous. He's totally a wolf held by the ears right now.
    The Hawks are a terrible option. They need a play maker who can play alongside Young some and/or back him up and they're in position to select just that with Haliburton at 6.

    The Warriors are another terrible option. They have a bloated payroll as is, are in win now mode and probably looking to make a significant move.

    The Pistons are a perfect fit. They need a "PG" (even though he's not a real one), depth of youth period and Weaver came from the athleticism obsessed Thunder. Unless there's a player available at 7 who they view as having star potential, a trade centered on Murray and 11 for 7 and filler makes a lot of sense for both teams.

  8. #183
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    Spurs will not trade him this offseason. It would mean the contract was a mistake. Spurs don’t go out of their way to say the screwed up. I’m fine with Murray staying.

  9. #184
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    Instagram Baller getting traded? Shouldl've spent less time on IG and more working on that jumpshot

  10. #185
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    People need to recalibrate what it means to trade a player. It's not a punishment. You don't trade bad players. You trade to get something, not to get rid of something.

  11. #186
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    He could still come good if he take a step back and concentrate in a 3/Slash and D role first. His main problem is trying to do too much too soon.

  12. #187
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    Quietly, Murray has also improved his jump shot, which to this point has been his Achilles heel. He hit 50.4 percent of his pull-up shots from midrange this season, a figure that ranks sixth in the NBA. -expressnews
    When looking at point guards, we know pull-up shooting is an important skill, and without it, it’s very hard to score, unless you’re a Russell Westbrook-type athlete that can bully your way to the rim. -fansided
    Last edited by rankingtear; 09-22-2020 at 10:16 PM.

  13. #188
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    People need to recalibrate what it means to trade a player. It's not a punishment. You don't trade bad players. You trade to get something, not to get rid of something.
    Also Point Guards in general take more time to get good. Murrray has time and a nice contract. He will have a plus career unless further injuries derail him.

  14. #189
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    Also Point Guards in general take more time to get good. Murrray has time and a nice contract. He will have a plus career unless further injuries derail him.
    Oh I don't really agree there. I'd definitely be keen to trade Murray if there's something good to be had. I am okay with giving him another year in a vacuum, but he's a risk of becoming a cancer if the team doesn't keep him in the first unit, and that's just not okay. He's clearly the odd man out of White, Walker and Johnson in terms of skill-set and fit. He'd be fine off the bench, maybe even good. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I certainly don't think he's a good contract unless he gets way better at playing basketball.

    But the reason they should look to trade Murray is because he's the most expendable and the team has needs, not because he sucks and people don't want to keep looking at him.

  15. #190
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    Oh I don't really agree there. I'd definitely be keen to trade Murray if there's something good to be had. I am okay with giving him another year in a vacuum, but he's a risk of becoming a cancer if the team doesn't keep him in the first unit, and that's just not okay. He's clearly the odd man out of White, Walker and Johnson in terms of skill-set and fit. He'd be fine off the bench, maybe even good. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I certainly don't think he's a good contract unless he gets way better at playing basketball.


    But the reason they should look to trade Murray is because he's the most expendable and the team has needs, not because he sucks and people don't want to keep looking at him.
    Why do you feel Walker is better then him. I would say it is the prevailing thought on here but I dissagree with it. Johnson I think has shown more at his young age. White I think is a bout even but had a better bubble. He also seems to drop when placed on the bench. Walker has not shown much. He had a Flash game or two but not even as many as murray.

  16. #191
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I've talked about why I think Walker is a better candidate to keep that Murray in a lot of places, even in this thread, I think. A short rehash is that Murray doesn't really have skills that win basketball games besides rebounding. He's not a good shooter, an overrated defender, a horrible driver and facilitator. He's an energy player, and his first year-and-a-half in the league he played that role pretty well. But he basically developed really badly and picked up relatively useless skills like a mid-range pull-up rather than a reliable set-shot from three. It makes it so his only path to build on his skills is to dominate the ball, and he's just not good at it.

    Out of who's "better" between him and Walker? Eh. It's not really the point. Walker is already a better three-and-D player since he's a good corner shooter and a stronger defender. But if we're talking about potential, it's not close. Lonnie has way more physical talent than Murray. DJM worked for two years on that pull-up two, and Lonnie's is still way better, faster, more elevation. Finishing at the rim is an issue for Lonnie, but getting there isn't. He has a tremendous burst that can bend a defense. Play-making? They told Lonnie to start doing that on the side, and he's already able to leverage his athleticism into easy buckets. Add in the extra year and not being a time bomb, and there's no question. Lonnie or no, I don't want Murray starting with White. It doesn't make the team better.

  17. #192
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    Spurs will not trade him this offseason. It would mean the contract was a mistake. Spurs don’t go out of their way to say the screwed up. I’m fine with Murray staying.
    traded a first round pick just to dump RJ

  18. #193
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    Murray would be better served on another team; white,Lonnie, Keldon works for me moving forward. The spurs did Murray a solid for being a good soldier but just doesn’t fit here anymore. They’ll try to place him with a team he can be excited about I suspect....

  19. #194
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    I've talked about why I think Walker is a better candidate to keep that Murray in a lot of places, even in this thread, I think. A short rehash is that Murray doesn't really have skills that win basketball games besides rebounding. He's not a good shooter, an overrated defender, a horrible driver and facilitator. He's an energy player, and his first year-and-a-half in the league he played that role pretty well. But he basically developed really badly and picked up relatively useless skills like a mid-range pull-up rather than a reliable set-shot from three. It makes it so his only path to build on his skills is to dominate the ball, and he's just not good at it.

    Out of who's "better" between him and Walker? Eh. It's not really the point. Walker is already a better three-and-D player since he's a good corner shooter and a stronger defender. But if we're talking about potential, it's not close. Lonnie has way more physical talent than Murray. DJM worked for two years on that pull-up two, and Lonnie's is still way better, faster, more elevation. Finishing at the rim is an issue for Lonnie, but getting there isn't. He has a tremendous burst that can bend a defense. Play-making? They told Lonnie to start doing that on the side, and he's already able to leverage his athleticism into easy buckets. Add in the extra year and not being a time bomb, and there's no question. Lonnie or no, I don't want Murray starting with White. It doesn't make the team better.
    I think you underrate his defense and his shooting. I also dont think walker is a better 3 and D player. Murray is better a defense and not much difference in 3s. I also would say future they both have a ways to go but Murray has shown more. Walker has had a few good games and I dont think he has had a solid stretch yet of putting games together or even 3/5.

  20. #195
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    Chinook is right, Walker is already a better shooter, ballhandler and facilitator than Murray. I still give DJ the benefit of a doubt for next season though. If he doesn't show significant improvements than you gotta move him

  21. #196
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    Chinook is right, Walker is already a better shooter, ballhandler and facilitator than Murray. I still give DJ the benefit of a doubt for next season though. If he doesn't show significant improvements than you gotta move him
    thats a of a risky benefit for DJ.

  22. #197
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    I think you underrate his defense and his shooting. I also dont think walker is a better 3 and D player. Murray is better a defense and not much difference in 3s. I also would say future they both have a ways to go but Murray has shown more. Walker has had a few good games and I dont think he has had a solid stretch yet of putting games together or even 3/5.
    I'd love to see some actual statistics on both players' defense, tbh. But the eye test doesn't agree with you - Dejounte's effort on D has been quite suspect this year, especially in the bubble, oftentimes getting caught over-helping and gambling for steals instead of just staying in front of his man. I don't know if Lonnie is the better defender in all facets (man-to-man, zone, help), but DJ has a very big flaw, which permeates both his D and O: he has low BBIQ. Take the bubble game against Philly for example... That last defensive play was just bad BBIQ. And the thing about low IQ players, is that oftentimes they get on by with their pure skills, until the games inevitably start to matter more, slow down, become chess matches... And then, your player is just going to fail you. I see DJ as a player with a very real, and not very high, ceiling, because of this. He also lacks everything that can't be taught to a PG, from vision, to passing instincts, to IQ, and also things that can be taught, like dribbling skills.

    As for their shooting, Lonnie is definitely the better shooter. Murray has made some strides, especially this season, which I won't deny - and yet, DJ sits at .369% 3P% for the season in 1.7 3PA per game, whilst Lonnie is at .406% with exactly the same number of APG. And it's not only the stats, the eye test backs it up too - Lonnie's form is smooth, quick, high-release and repeatable. Dejounte invariably overthinks or outright denies himself a shot opportunity if he catches the ball beyond the 3pt line, even if there's nobody guarding him; talking about making contested 3pt shots is a pipe dream at this point. I'd say that's a pretty big difference: even if Walker were the worse shooter, which isn't the case, the sheer fact that he does not hesitate to shoot, and actively seeks to create these shots for himself, is extremely telling. I don't care much about DJ's midrange-pullups, I agree with Chinook's reasoning on it.

    I'll say that Lonnie isn't a perfect player by any measures, though. He has a lot of work to do - his zone defense is lackadaisical, his man-to-man could use further work, and he really needs to learn how to move off-ball instead of stand in the corner waiting for a pass, Rockettes-style. But between him and Dejounte, there's a clear difference, and it's a a simple pick in terms of which prospect I'd rather ship out. When you take into account both players' ages and years in the league, it becomes a no-brainer.

  23. #198
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    I don't know why you guys are comparing DJ to Lonnie because they have different roles and guard different types of players. Lonnie and Keldon have the more overlap on play types and people they guard. If you give Lonnie the possesions DJ is getting you would want to trade him too. Most of DJ possesion is as a pick and roll ballhandler and iso, same shot profile as Derozan. Lonnie is on spotups mostly same with Keldon.

    Lonnie is shooting 28% on midrange jumpers , 34% on long 2's and 36% on corner threes, dejounte on the other hand is 49% on midrange, 43% on long 2's and 39% on corner threes.

  24. #199
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    I don't know why you guys are comparing DJ to Lonnie because they have different roles and guard different types of players. Lonnie and Keldon have the more overlap on play types and people they guard. If you give Lonnie the possesions DJ is getting you would want to trade him too. Most of DJ possesion is as a pick and roll ballhandler and iso, same shot profile as Derozan. Lonnie is on spotups mostly same with Keldon.

    Lonnie is shooting 28% on midrange jumpers , 34% on long 2's and 36% on corner threes, dejounte on the other hand is 49% on midrange, 43% on long 2's and 39% on corner threes.
    Nah. Murray doesn't have a role on the team. He chooses to shoot ty mid-range shots. Yes, he's actually good at them, but it also highlights that they aren't a great shot to be good at anyway.

    I'd be totally down with giving Walker more ball-handling responsibilities. He has way more upside there than DeJounte. If anything Murray needs to start getting more "Walker/Johnson" attempts and lay off trying to be a primary ball-handler.

  25. #200
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    And this also continues to miss the point. It doesn't matter if Murray were the better than Walker, even in the future. Trading Murray is about avoiding a situation where he can't stand being benched. And with his desired skill-set, he has no place with White and DeRozan or Johnson. If the Spurs draft Vassel or Nesmith at 11, then that might also make Walker redundant, but it won't make trading Murray any less desirable. Walker's skill-set and demeanor fit just fine on the team, Nesmith, Murray or no. DJM isn't there.

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