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  1. #51
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Boomer basketball takes are always hilarious to read

  2. #52
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    The 3pt shot is not an anomaly in today's game though. It has become an integral part of the fabric of the modern game. Without it, a great player is lesser. With it, a lesser player is greater. Look at Westbrook and his consecutive triple double seasons and everything he's able to do on the court outside of shooting. He's a giant among giants in every aspect of basketball but shooting. And because of that, he's Russell ing Westbrick, Westbroke. He's a joke of a player who gets laughed at by fans, media, and even opponents.

    The value of 3pt shooting for NBA players across the board is immense. It's why a guy like Brook Lopez can be a starting center on a championship contending team well into his 30s while Andre Drummond is stuck signing 1-2 year minimum contracts in his prime 20s.

    The player comparison of Jordan to DeMarr DeRozan may seem laughable to some, especially Jordan fanbois, but it actually has more merit than at first glance when you really think about it. Imagine Jordan slowing games down to get in the midpost to shoot fadeaway jumper after fadeaway jumper while opposing teams run and gun hitting three after three. You can't build an offense around a halfcourt set midrange fadeaway jumper in today's game, let alone win. That's why he wouldn't be the best player today. He'd either have to change his game or accept a DeRozan type career.
    At the same time, if Jordan played in today’s league he definitely would have personally hired Chip Engelland and made himself a great 3pt shooter. The years with the shortened 3pt line in the 90’s, he immediately jumped on that advantage, and he would most likely do the same in today’s league.

  3. #53
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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  4. #54
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Suns and Jazz up late. MJ steals their hearts.
    You mean Paxson and Kerr mostly

  5. #55
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Outside of the 3pt anomalies, prime Mike would be the best player in the game today. Who would be better, Durant? Devin Booker?
    If he can't shoot 3s, modern defenses can scheme to stop him. He had free reigns back in the 80s with no one physically capable to guard him and get their own buckets. And he played against antiquated defenses and no zones.

    Kobe had everything Mike had in his bag (but with a greater shooting range). Thibbs Celtics defense held him to 6-24 shooting. Why would Jordan do better? For reference, look at what the Glove did to MJ in the 96 Finals (his % was lower in these Finals than the other 5).

    I do think KD would be better, at least offensively in today's NBA. You can't teach that kind of size and shooting ability.

  6. #56
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    6-24 in game 7, that is, IIRC.

  7. #57
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    Demar Derozan, Trae Young, Devin Booker and Donovan Mitc are all top 10 in scoring this season but Michael ing Jordan wouldn't be able to adjust to today's defenses

  8. #58
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Demar Derozan, Trae Young, Devin Booker and Donovan Mitc are all top 10 in scoring this season but Michael ing Jordan wouldn't be able to adjust to today's defenses
    who said he couldnt adjust?

    i think people simply said he wouldnt be the clear-cut best player in the league, or run away with scoring les every year like he did when the rules made isolations the most effective offense in the game.

  9. #59
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I'm definitely not saying that, Pippen and Grant/Rodman played a sizable role in helping them win. But when the games were on the line, MJ came through. Everybody and their momma knew he was getting the rock, yet nobody could stop him. In the closing moments of the 98 Finals, with a hobbled Pippen mainly just a decoy out there, you knew Jordan was going to take over. It was as predictable as Biden saying something stupid every week, because history repeats itself.

    The East was kinda weak but I feel like his Final's opponents were not and they get intentionally underrated in order to elevate Lebron. The 96 Sonics are, imo, one of the best teams in NBA history to not win it all. And in 91, almost everyone was picking LA over Chicago before the series started. When the Lakers lost, the narrative became they were old and washed. I see both sides of the argument trying to rewrite history sometimes,
    Jordan was definitely a clutch mofo, there are no arguments about that.

    For the 91 Lakers, Worthy was hobbling and Scott was in a huge shooting slump (likely because he had to exert so much energy guarding Jordan). The Lakers were leading 0-1 until Pippen started to guarded Magic and forced the Lakers to slow down the offense, it was a great masterful move, which brings me back to the original point of Pippen being a unique player that couldn't be replicated (again, other than Lebron or a healthy in-his-prime Grant Hill). Pippen basically played the role of Kawhi in 14 or Iggy in 15, but with strong offence to go along with it. He is now getting massively underrated because of the Jordan myths.

    Sonics was great, and should have won. Rodman on Kemp really changed that series. If it wasn't for Rodman Kemp would have gone nuclear. Which brings me to another point, the Bulls have issues with good bigs. Ewing really wasn't that great but he gave the Bulls some trouble, even Rik Smits gave the Bulls serios trouble. If the Bulls were out West, they would have to face Olajuwon and Robinson, not to mention Kemp and pedo every year just to get to the finals. As history has it, they only had to go through Ewing and Smits instead (Shaq for a few years before he went to the Lakers).

    Again, Jordan did very well for himself and I think he took advantage of the situation, but to say that Jordan was undisputedly the best player ever is largely due to narratives. Lebron has the stats and accolades to back up, so does Wilt and Kareem. Jordan is definitely NOT the easiest superstar to build a championship team from scratch. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Lebron, Wilt and arguably Kareem were all easier to build around.acc

  10. #60
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    If he can't shoot 3s, modern defenses can scheme to stop him. He had free reigns back in the 80s with no one physically capable to guard him and get their own buckets. And he played against antiquated defenses and no zones.

    Kobe had everything Mike had in his bag (but with a greater shooting range). Thibbs Celtics defense held him to 6-24 shooting. Why would Jordan do better? For reference, look at what the Glove did to MJ in the 96 Finals (his % was lower in these Finals than the other 5).

    I do think KD would be better, at least offensively in today's NBA. You can't teach that kind of size and shooting ability.
    Do you think MJ, who had no midrange game when he entered the league and became probably the best midrange shooter ever, would bring 80's level play to the modern NBA. Just wondering why folks like you think "if you plucked MJ out of the 80's and dropped him into a game today..." which isn't the claim. The claim is, if MJ's prime was now, he'd be the best player in the NBA. Not that his prime then would win today.

  11. #61
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Jordan was definitely a clutch mofo, there are no arguments about that.

    For the 91 Lakers, Worthy was hobbling and Scott was in a huge shooting slump (likely because he had to exert so much energy guarding Jordan). The Lakers were leading 0-1 until Pippen started to guarded Magic and forced the Lakers to slow down the offense, it was a great masterful move, which brings me back to the original point of Pippen being a unique player that couldn't be replicated (again, other than Lebron or a healthy in-his-prime Grant Hill). Pippen basically played the role of Kawhi in 14 or Iggy in 15, but with strong offence to go along with it. He is now getting massively underrated because of the Jordan myths.

    Sonics was great, and should have won. Rodman on Kemp really changed that series. If it wasn't for Rodman Kemp would have gone nuclear. Which brings me to another point, the Bulls have issues with good bigs. Ewing really wasn't that great but he gave the Bulls some trouble, even Rik Smits gave the Bulls serios trouble. If the Bulls were out West, they would have to face Olajuwon and Robinson, not to mention Kemp and pedo every year just to get to the finals. As history has it, they only had to go through Ewing and Smits instead (Shaq for a few years before he went to the Lakers).

    Again, Jordan did very well for himself and I think he took advantage of the situation, but to say that Jordan was undisputedly the best player ever is largely due to narratives. Lebron has the stats and accolades to back up, so does Wilt and Kareem. Jordan is definitely NOT the easiest superstar to build a championship team from scratch. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Lebron, Wilt and arguably Kareem were all easier to build around.acc
    This like like the argument that Tim did so well because he had 3 HOFers around him, and that Parker and Manu wouldn't be without Tim (in the same breath). Take one or the other. Because Mike dominated the league, people try to downplay the level of compe ion, like they use today's players and game style to call that era weak, yet the top 10 all time is full of those guys and Mike sits at the top.

    Some of you think the most recent champion should be on the all time top 10 list, too bad you see Bird, Magic, Kareem, Shaq and Tim on that list. Tim who's prime was in 2003 and who played against MJ while MJ was in Chicago. Bird who also played against MJ and called him god, and Magic who acknowledged Jordan is the GOAT even if he might prefer Butkus or Bob Griese.

  12. #62
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Do you think MJ, who had no midrange game when he entered the league and became probably the best midrange shooter ever, would bring 80's level play to the modern NBA. Just wondering why folks like you think "if you plucked MJ out of the 80's and dropped him into a game today..." which isn't the claim. The claim is, if MJ's prime was now, he'd be the best player in the NBA. Not that his prime then would win today.
    Well considering today's game requires you to be a triple threat, no MJ wouldn't be the best.

    Today's defensive schemes won't just allow him to stay in the midrange.

    Case in point - DeRozan is even shooting 3s now. MJ's 32% 3pt shooting will not unclog the paint or break a zone. There is a plethora of athletic players that can guard him within modern derensive schemes.

  13. #63
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Speaking of non 3pt shooting MJ, he'd be modern day Demar Derozan for real. In the regular season, he'll look great. In the playoffs, he'd fall off, scoring wise. Why? No 3pt shot. Modern defensiveminded coaches can pick out his weaknesses and exploit them in the playoffs. DD is a prime example:

    2022 Regular season
    27.9ppg
    5.2rpg
    4.9apg

    2022 Playoffs
    20.8ppg
    5.4rpg
    4.8apg


  14. #64
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Well considering today's game requires you to be a triple threat, no MJ wouldn't be the best.

    Today's defensive schemes won't just allow him to stay in the midrange.

    Case in point - DeRozan is even shooting 3s now. MJ's 32% 3pt shooting will not unclog the paint or break a zone. There is a plethora of athletic players that can guard him within modern derensive schemes.
    You're still trying to pick and place him.

    "Well he's prime but in the 80s when few shot the 3, he wasn't that great compared today" makes no sense.

  15. #65
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Speaking of non 3pt shooting MJ, he'd be modern day Demar Derozan for real. In the regular season, he'll look great. In the playoffs, he'd fall off, scoring wise. Why? No 3pt shot. Modern defensiveminded coaches can pick out his weaknesses and exploit them in the playoffs. DD is a prime example:

    2022 Regular season
    27.9ppg
    5.2rpg
    4.9apg

    2022 Playoffs
    20.8ppg
    5.4rpg
    4.8apg

    Dogging on your hero's idol.

  16. #66
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    This how teams in today's NBA would guard Jordan:



  17. #67
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    You're still trying to pick and place him.

    "Well he's prime but in the 80s when few shot the 3, he wasn't that great compared today" makes no sense.
    Michael Jeffrey DeFrozen

  18. #68
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    This like like the argument that Tim did so well because he had 3 HOFers around him, and that Parker and Manu wouldn't be without Tim (in the same breath). Take one or the other. Because Mike dominated the league, people try to downplay the level of compe ion, like they use today's players and game style to call that era weak, yet the top 10 all time is full of those guys and Mike sits at the top.
    the talent of the era itself isnt whats weak. its talent at comparable positions. wings were very weak during the time mike dominated. in the mid 80s, about 12 of the top 15 scorers in the league were wing players. by the mid 90s, about 12 of the top 15 were bigs. he rarely had to defend anyone good, and rarely had anyone good defending him. he was a monumental mismatch due to lack of talent at his position, much like shaq and timmy were from 99-07. the rest of the NBA became full of MJ copycats duking it out among each other, while shaq and timmy were unmatched and winning everything until the celtics created a superteam and the lakers colluded and threw the league out of wack.

  19. #69
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Dogging on your hero's idol.
    The truth is the truth. Jordan might even be Andrew Wiggins in today's NBA

  20. #70
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    the talent of the era itself isnt whats weak. its talent at comparable positions. wings were very weak during the time mike dominated. in the mid 80s, about 12 of the top 15 scorers in the league were wing players. by the mid 90s, about 12 of the top 15 were bigs. he rarely had to defend anyone good, and rarely had anyone good defending him. he was a monumental mismatch due to lack of talent at his position, much like shaq and timmy were from 99-07. the rest of the NBA became full of MJ copycats duking it out among each other, while shaq and timmy were unmatched and winning everything until the celtics created a superteam and the lakers colluded and threw the league out of wack.
    Truth bombs throughout this post. Especially the bolded part.

    Great post man. Spot on.

  21. #71
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    The truth is the truth. Jordan might even be Andrew Wiggins in today's NBA
    Still ranked above your heroes (all of them)

  22. #72
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    the talent of the era itself isnt whats weak. its talent at comparable positions. wings were very weak during the time mike dominated. in the mid 80s, about 12 of the top 15 scorers in the league were wing players. by the mid 90s, about 12 of the top 15 were bigs. he rarely had to defend anyone good, and rarely had anyone good defending him. he was a monumental mismatch due to lack of talent at his position, much like shaq and timmy were from 99-07. the rest of the NBA became full of MJ copycats duking it out among each other, while shaq and timmy were unmatched and winning everything until the celtics created a superteam and the lakers colluded and threw the league out of wack.
    Your "anyone good" is once again trying to put today's players in Michael's era. The people he played against are all time greats and he had actual big men in the paint unlike these clowns like Embiid who shoot 3's all day.

  23. #73
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    This how teams in today's NBA would guard Jordan:


    Dam if those two people on the perimeter had their hands up and were wide open, and there was 8 seconds to shoot in the game, and 3 players were guarding Russ, that would be Kobe who would have shot anyhow and airballed.

  24. #74
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    Payton not a good defender, best Jordan ever faced and still MJ scored 27pts a game average in the Finals. These clowns today like Matador Harden and KD leaking out before the ball hits the rim. Who are the great defenders of today? Donkey?

  25. #75
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    Still ranked above your heroes (all of them)
    Dam if those two people on the perimeter had their hands up and were wide open, and there was 8 seconds to shoot in the game, and 3 players were guarding Russ, that would be Kobe who would have shot anyhow and airballed.

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