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  1. #76
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    You're a lunatic.
    You may be right.

    I may be crazy.

    But I just might be the lunatic you’re looking for.

    Or not. Don’t give a .

    Players get paid for upside all the time. But I’ll the off and let you all wank your s to lottery odds.

  2. #77
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    You dont pay someone 30M that needs that much development still IMO…theres a reason its not just PHX passing on him…
    The reason can be:a) character issues
    Or b) him not being considered still an elite big man.
    Obviously in case a) (expecially if supported by Monty's feedback) I would be the first to say we have to avoid him; but it's not that impossible the hypothesis b). We already had heard that samr/most gms share the same wiew of Sarver, alas consider Ayton a limited big man not worth the same amount of money (max or near the max) now paid to a small amount of big men. If that's the case, and Ayton playoff behavior can be considered effectively only the explosion of his frustration once in a lifetime for the choices and considerations made by his management and best teammates and the consequent choices of Monty, then I share the same idea of JMJ.

  3. #78
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Ayton isn’t Hakeem. He isn’t single-handedly keeping you compe ive in a year he’s experimenting with his offense by trying and failing and trying and learning. He’s almost a rookie in several offensive aspects because of how under-utilized they have been by Suns. Stick him on the low block and tell him “you must take 10 post shots.” Stick him on the elbows and tell him “I need to see 10 dribble drives or jab-step jumpers.” Use him in Pick N Roll and tell him he’s jacking up 5+ 3s a game.

    Use him in unique ways guaranteed to have growing pains, but that can expand his game, and with the freedom to just do it no matter, I would bet within 2 years Ayton has, at the very least, a bag of post moves and legit elbow to dead on 3-point range at a good clip on large volume. Maybe the Elbow drives develop. Dribbling been his biggest issue, but some PnR with his jumper may have D in limbo enough he can get that first dribble in and with his stride and fluidity and touch, get him in the lane with a floater or baby hook or two-dribble lay-up/dunk and who knows what player you can unlock.

    Seriously. I’ve watched every game just about since high school. That this man has flashed is crazy. Needs allowance to do it and the confidence to do it frequently.

    Anyways. Whatever. Really hoped Pop would come throw. He’ll never be a Duncan, but a fairly good imitation isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
    I wanted him before we traded Murray. Now it really doesn't make sense. Also with the new TV deal kicking in soon, a max contract for Ayton gonna look quite ok long term when other players make 60 million per year

  4. #79
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    The reason can be:a) character issues
    Or b) him not being considered still an elite big man.
    Obviously in case a) (expecially if supported by Monty's feedback) I would be the first to say we have to avoid him; but it's not that impossible the hypothesis b). We already had heard that samr/most gms share the same wiew of Sarver, alas consider Ayton a limited big man not worth the same amount of money (max or near the max) now paid to a small amount of big men. If that's the case, and Ayton playoff behavior can be considered effectively only the explosion of his frustration once in a lifetime for the choices and considerations made by his management and best teammates and the consequent choices of Monty, then I share the same idea of JMJ.
    There was never a complaint of his growth or development or commitment in 4 years until game 7’s blowup. It has never happened publicly before, and, simply put, it never occurred in any fashion that could be rumored in the media. In game 7 you had a player who averaged 18-9 on 60% FG refuse to go back into a 50-point deficit and risk injury in his final game before his RFA hit. He became the scapegoat, as if Booker and Paul being absolute no-shows in Games 6 and 7 aren’t the real culprit. Ayton put up 20+ and 9 rebounds on like 63% in game 6. More than the other two combined.

    Was that selfish? Sure. But entirely understandable, especially since that team didn’t pay him when it had the chance. He has his money, he plays.

    But, regardless, it was a decision made by a 23 year old. They sometimes make iffy decisions in cultures where they feel it them vs everybody. Suns didn’t have his back, so, he reciprocated when it was obvious no amount of effort was going to be enough.

    Monty is a good dude, but he’s got his favorite (Paul) and neither of them prioritized Ayton. There would be entire second-halves of games where Ayton maybe touched the ball 3-5x after putting up 14-18 ppg in the first half.

    I swear to god at times it felt like they were colluding to keep his value lower than Max.

  5. #80
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    I wanted him before we traded Murray. Now it really doesn't make sense. Also with the new TV deal kicking in soon, a max contract for Ayton gonna look quite ok long term when other players make 60 million per year
    Again, I’d argue it makes just as much sense now because Ayton needs growth to be his best player, and the growth will come through a lot of trial and error for a year or 2.

    And, yea, the new TV money gonna make Ayton’s deal look like 18-20 million now. No reason to fear giving him the Max since within a few years it won’t be the Max.

  6. #81
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    So what is going on with this guy? If Utah really wanted him they’d just tender an offer sheet now, no? I think they have space after the Gobert deal.

    Danny relishes being the turd in the Punchbowl in these types of situations (KD trade here), so something else must being going on.

  7. #82
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    It's already possible to tender the max offer to rfa? Or it's necessary to wait for July 7 (alas when it will be possible to effectively sign contracts) ?

  8. #83
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    So what is going on with this guy? If Utah really wanted him they’d just tender an offer sheet now, no? I think they have space after the Gobert deal.

    Danny relishes being the turd in the Punchbowl in these types of situations (KD trade here), so something else must being going on.
    Utah doesn’t have any space. They took on a lot on contracts in the Gobert trade.

    The dude who is calling Durant to Phoenix says Monday is the day for fireworks.

    So, guess we will see tomorrow.

  9. #84
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Utah doesn’t have any space. They took on a lot on contracts in the Gobert trade.

    The dude who is calling Durant to Phoenix says Monday is the day for fireworks.

    So, guess we will see tomorrow.
    If UTA really wanted him, I am sure they could reroute most of the money they took back from the deal to SA who has 39M in cap space if they were willing to surrender one of those firsts they received.

  10. #85
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    UTA Gets: Kessler + Minnys 25’ + Minnys 27’ + Minnys 29’

    MIN Gets: Rudy

    SA Gets: Beasley + Pat Bev + Vanderbilt + Bolmaro + Minnys 23’

    I dont think that gets UTA all the way to space (have not looked) but if it does get them close enough to where they can land Ayton without any hassle? Maybe its worth it. But my gut says that would not get it done and they would not give up the pick to make that happen when they could just use the players to Sign and Trade with PHX vs giving up the pick

  11. #86
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    That might be the backup plan. Ainge may in the punch bowl, but I think if he can turn Rudy/Mitc /Role Players into Ayton/Simmons/4+ limited protection 1sts, maybe a young prospect or two, then that is considered a significant win, even if the plan is to simply rehab Simmons and trade him at the deadline or next offseason.

    Portland makes sense for Simmons, and maybe Simons is available come December?

  12. #87
    Believe. Rubberducky's Avatar
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    Glad to see your trying to keep your mind off UCLA/USC destroying the Pac12. I assume beardownwildcats is on fire atm.

  13. #88
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    Glad to see your trying to keep your mind off UCLA/USC destroying the Pac12. I assume beardownwildcats is on fire atm.
    LMAO! We are in a weird space. Half the fanbase has spent enough time sniffing the s ches hems of the Elitist Cali Ivory Tower Vibe they ain’t down with a Big 12 merger, and want ACC. The other half are tired of the elitist Cali vibe and want to form a basketball priority super Big-Pac and invite San Diego State and UNLV, but this relies on Oregon hanging with Pac, which isn’t going to happen.

    I’m actually all for a combine ACC minus Clemson and Florida State (BIG) and Miami (SEC), Big 12 minus West Virginia (SEC), and PAC minus Oregon, Washington and Stanford (BIG) to form the All Coast Conference. Throw them all in and shake out the top-24 teams.

    Arizona
    Arizona State
    Baylor
    Cal
    Cincinnati
    Colorado
    Duke
    Georgia Tech
    Houston
    Iowa State
    Louisville
    Kansas
    North Carolina
    NC State
    Oklahoma State
    San Diego State
    Syracuse
    Texas Christian
    Texas Tech
    UCF
    UNLV
    Virgina
    Wake Forest

    All Coastal Conference
    Atlantic Division
    -North-
    Cincinnati
    Louisville
    Syracuse
    Virginia
    -South-
    Duke
    North Carolina
    NC State
    Wake Forest
    -Gulf-
    Georgia Tech
    Houston
    Texas Christian
    UCF

    Pacific Division
    -Plains-
    Baylor
    Iowa State
    Kansas
    Oklahoma State
    -Southwest-
    Arizona
    Arizona State
    San Diego State
    Texas Tech
    -Mountain-
    Cal (or Oregon State)
    Colorado
    UNLV
    Utah

    It has pretty good football, excellent basketball, very good baseball/softball, and will compete in Golf, Track N Field, etc.

    It will also generate a lot of research academic funding.

    Everybody brings something to the table and as the first actual super-conference with large markers and college brand hotbeds, I think it has staying power on TV deals.

    It won’t compete in football, but if they can fully develop Houston and Cincinnati, and if Utah continues its rise, and if Baylor or TCU can be what they were a decade ago, they can have some compe ive teams for a potential expanded playoffs with an undefeated season.

    But this is a ton of work. ACC may be too snooty for this unless Stanford and Cal can 100% commit. If Stanford joins, then lockout UNLV.

  14. #89
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    Ayton, Sarić - Poeltl, Richardson ??

  15. #90
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    Is it possible he takes the QO from Phoenix and we throw max money at him next year when we're not trying to all-out tank?

  16. #91
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    Short answer, No.

  17. #92
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    Ayton, Sarić - Poeltl, Richardson ??
    Snt and other players - illegal

  18. #93
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    Snt and other players - illegal

    Looks like Spurs get Saric and 2 second rnd picks.😔

  19. #94
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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  20. #95
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Is it possible he takes the QO from Phoenix and we throw max money at him next year when we're not trying to all-out tank?
    Short answer, No.
    When is Ayton tradeable, period?

  21. #96
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    When is Ayton tradeable, period?
    Don't quote me on this, but I read January 15.

  22. #97
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Don't quote me on this, but I read January 15.
    January 15th is earliest he can be traded, but Ayton has a full no-trade through this calendar year, so he can veto any trade depending on if he likes the location or situation or coaching, and it’s a full calendar year until he can be traded to the Pacers.

    Pacers with Haliburton and Spurs with Murray we’re my top-2 choices. Oh well. Stays on the Suns and we’ll see if anything changes or if they gonna try and pigeon-hole him into same role and if he buys it, or if he just wants out.

  23. #98
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    January 15th is earliest he can be traded, but Ayton has a full no-trade through this calendar year, so he can veto any trade depending on if he likes the location or situation or coaching, and it’s a full calendar year until he can be traded to the Pacers.

    Pacers with Haliburton and Spurs with Murray we’re my top-2 choices. Oh well. Stays on the Suns and we’ll see if anything changes or if they gonna try and pigeon-hole him into same role and if he buys it, or if he just wants out.
    Good info!!

  24. #99
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Why did some burn on Suns ownership when all along they knew they could match and save 46 million bucks?

  25. #100
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    Ayton will want good stats to get out and increase his value

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