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  1. #26
    Green 4 3 for 6 dg7md's Avatar
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    Kawhi will have to cover Durant at some point in the series, but I don't think he covers him the whole way due to potential foul troubles. Based on what Kawhi did against LeBron last year, there's no doubt he's capable of getting in the head of any player in the league, so you need to manage his minutes and keep him out of foul trouble. Durant is great but I think Kawhi can stifle him out of his game. Green is also underrated as a defender and could do some work on him.

  2. #27
    Veteran Spurs da champs's Avatar
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    I'd rather see as little of Green on Durant as possible, Danny is too small & doesn't play with a physical style like a Tony Allen did to make up for his lack of size. It depends on how the refs call it, as they let Allen get real physical with Durant yet the same can't be said for the Clippers. Tho, I'm of the mindset that you gotta ride your best & biggest perimeter defender in this case, which is clearly Leonard. Foul trouble or not, he's the best choice on Durant, IIRC, he played really good & physical D on Durant the last time these teams played, fwiw.

  3. #28
    I will not be mishandled MI21's Avatar
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    Leonard will guard him, tbh I'd prefer to see Manu guard Durant over Green. Manu with his old man tricks, flopping and all-around annoyingness seems to annoy Durant a little, as evidenced during the game this season where the Spurs had to play OKC without Danny or Kawhi. He won't stop him or anything, but he will annoy him.

  4. #29
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I know it is still early but do guys think Pop will ask Kawhi to post up Durant?If Kawhi is capable, that will be a game changer..
    i think the better question is if OKC goes small will Diaw stay out there with Leonard, Duncan, Manu and Parker. That could potentially allow Diaw to post Durant.

  5. #30
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I'd rather see as little of Green on Durant as possible, Danny is too small & doesn't play with a physical style like a Tony Allen did to make up for his lack of size. It depends on how the refs call it, as they let Allen get real physical with Durant yet the same can't be said for the Clippers. Tho, I'm of the mindset that you gotta ride your best & biggest perimeter defender in this case, which is clearly Leonard. Foul trouble or not, he's the best choice on Durant, IIRC, he played really good & physical D on Durant the last time these teams played, fwiw.
    I agree. I was surprised how much they let Allen hound KD. Henry Abbot suggested that him coming off the bench allowed for him to be a bit more aggressive, with out having to worry about foul trouble and the Refs early whistles that force everyone to adjust to the level of contact being allowed.


    I'd like to see some Diaw on KD, just to throw another body at him. He is a bit bigger than both and can make Durant use some energy banging with Diaw in the post. KD is a tougher cover due to his range but its worth a shot in limited situations.

    Green is much better suited on guards like WB and Jackson with his length and quickness.

  6. #31
    Big Body look_at_g_shred's Avatar
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    Kawhi was the #1 rated post wing player in the league this season, IIRC..

    He has been fine posting up against wings his size, tbh..I can't believe there are still Spurs fans that doubt his offensive ability..

    Leonard is extremely overrated as a defender, but underrated as an offensive player..
    Kawhi's D overrated, ok Take him off the team and look how bad our d takes a hit. Some people.

  7. #32
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Kawhi's D overrated, ok Take him off the team and look how bad our d takes a hit. Some people.
    There's a big gap between being overrated and being bad. Leonard is a fine defender, but people think he's better at man-to-man defense than he actually is.

    There is a perception that Leonard's defense is overrated because his iso-play D stats and some bad matchups against smalls and fast pg/sg.

    But people often forget that a good defense it's not only about one-on-one D, involves a lot of things.
    How to set the defensive tempo of the game, how disrupted rivals flow, throwing off a player's timing, how players change their shots to adapt to Leonard's defense, he's the head man on top of the press of the team?, lead defensive rebounders?, blocks, steals, etc

    Kawhi defensive impact is invaluable.
    Like guys said in other threads after last game, remember when Spurs lead collapses with Leonard on the bench, then he comes back and the team step up defense...

    Leonard's Defense is not overrated, is overall defense.

    About Leonard playing Durant on the post...I really want to believe in Post Operation Playoffs -aceg3- but that's never gonna happen, it doesn't seem Pop offensive plan against the Thunder.
    No one forgets Leonard's off-ball defense. Harlem is actually saying the opposite of what you're saying. He's saying Kawhi's off-ball defense makes people believe he's a better individual defender than he actually is. He's referring to Leonard being overrated when compared to Green specifically. He believes Green is the better defender, both individual and team, and the numbers bear Harlem out.
    Last edited by Chinook; 05-11-2014 at 10:54 PM.

  8. #33
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Green did a fine job on Durant when Danny was the primary defender. Green can guard almost an perimeter player well if his guard is a ball-dominating player. The problem is Green guarding Durant is that he's not ideal for it, while he is ideal to guard Reggie Jackson. Guarding Westbrook is more of a strategic thing than a match-up thing. The bigs need to guard the paint and force Russ to take jumpers. Honestly, OKC isn't really a Green team like Dallas and Portland are. He could still have a huge impact on that series, but he's not automatically the best two-guard if Beli is hitting shots. Green should be in whenever OKC plays two PGs, but after that, he's pretty much Leonard's insurance.

  9. #34
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    Green is probably the better on ball defender, especially when it comes to smaller guards but Kawhi makes more of an impact on the game defensively by creating momentum plays so to speak that turn into easy offense. And obviously his defensive rebounding ability.

  10. #35
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Green is probably the better on ball defender, especially when it comes to smaller guards but Kawhi makes more of an impact on the game defensively by creating momentum plays so to speak that turn into easy offense. And obviously his defensive rebounding ability.
    Rebounding, yes. Overall court impact is debatable. Green has superior stats to Leonard in all defensive metrics that aren't based on rebounding. Those include on-off numbers. Kawhi makes splash plays, which is why people assume he has the bigger impact.

  11. #36
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    I think Leonard being asked to guard players he probably isn't perfectly suited for plays a role in that. Green really isn't asked to defend 6"10 wings all the time; while a lot of the time Leonard is asked to defend 6"2 guards on a daily basis.

  12. #37
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    That's true to a certain extent. But it cuts both ways. If Leonard is on a guard, then Green is on a forward. Danny does have to go up against the Parsons, Batums and Marions of the NBA while Kawhi checks their two-guard counterparts. Then you have to factor in that RRT where Green had to guard everybody because Leonard was out. We're talking John Wall (and Ariza AND Beal depending on the situation) one night, Joe Johnson (and Deron Williams AND Pierce) another night. Then John Smith, then Kyrie Irving. He serious guarded Batum, Lopez and Lillard in the same stretch during the Portland game.

    Danny had to deal with a lot of physical mismatches just like Leonard. Often, they weren't the opposing team's best player (since Pop foolishly keep Kawhi on those players even when he wasn't suited to it), but they weren't cake walks. Leonard got just as many easy nights as Danny did, which wasn't that many since they both worked hard all year. Green's numbers have plenty of samples against great players to not make excuses for Leonard.

    That doesn't even account for the team numbers which for the most part aren't effected by who guards whom.

  13. #38
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    If Leonard is on a guard, then Green is on a forward. Danny does have to go up against the Parsons, Batums and Marions of the NBA while Kawhi checks their two-guard counterparts.
    So your saying Kawhi has to guard the more threatening player? How does that help your argument? Logically both Green and Kawhi are playing non-ideal match-ups but Kawhi is stuck on the more threatening offensive option.

    I guess address some of this in the second paragraph.

  14. #39
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    Parsons, Batums and Marions

    Danny had to deal with a lot of physical mismatches just like Leonard. Often, they weren't the opposing team's best player (since Pop foolishly keep Kawhi on those players even when he wasn't suited to it), but they weren't cake walks. Leonard got just as many easy nights as Danny did, which wasn't that many since they both worked hard all year. Green's numbers have plenty of samples against great players to not make excuses for Leonard.
    Those three are cake walks in comparison to who Kawhi would be guarding.

  15. #40
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I know Chinook has certain Green Colored Glasses (tm) , but Kawhi simply has the bigger impact offensively, besides a very good defensive focus. While both still have work to do in various areas offensively, Kawhi simply has more weapons to take on the opposition 1 on 1 if needed, something Danny doesn't really have on a consistent basis. This all plays a role even on defense, as we've seen in the first round series, where a solid coach like Carlisle could simply use Danny to hide and rest talented offensive players that are mediocre on defense (see: Calderon). Part of the defensive work includes making the other team's best offensive players work hard on the defensive end. Kawhi can simply make you pay for that: his post game is fairly good, and he has a fairly solid mid-range jumper off a curl or screen, areas where Danny still need to improve.

    Kawhi has some offensive improvements to make on his own, like better footwork, better finishing around the rim, keep working on his shot (including freebies), and more trust in his offensive game and less hesitation, but overall, he's ahead in the development curve than Danny (at least on that side of the court).

  16. #41
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    So your saying Kawhi has to guard the more threatening player? How does that help your argument? Logically both Green and Kawhi are playing non-ideal match-ups but Kawhi is stuck on the more threatening offensive option.

    I guess address some of this in the second paragraph.
    No, Leonard doesn't have to guard the more-threatening player. I addressed that in the second point. I was referring to T's argument that Kawhi has to face physical mismatches more than Green does. You can say MWP (from a couple of years ago) wasn't in the same league as Kobe (and you'd be right). But physically speaking, Kawhi is a better match to guard Kobe than Green is to guard MWP. Didn't stop Danny from shutting Peace down at a time where he was having a bit of a resurgence offensively.

    I know Chinook has certain Green Colored Glasses (tm) , but Kawhi simply has the bigger impact offensively, besides a very good defensive focus. While both still have work to do in various areas offensively, Kawhi simply has more weapons to take on the opposition 1 on 1 if needed, something Danny doesn't really have on a consistent basis. This all plays a role even on defense, as we've seen in the first round series, where a solid coach like Carlisle could simply use Danny to hide and rest talented offensive players that are mediocre on defense (see: Calderon). Part of the defensive work includes making the other team's best offensive players work hard on the defensive end. Kawhi can simply make you pay for that: his post game is fairly good, and he has a fairly solid mid-range jumper off a curl or screen, areas where Danny still need to improve.

    Kawhi has some offensive improvements to make on his own, like better footwork, better finishing around the rim, keep working on his shot (including freebies), and more trust in his offensive game and less hesitation, but overall, he's ahead in the development curve than Danny (at least on that side of the court).
    Where did I say anything about offense? I was defending Harlems' assertion that Leonard is overrated defensively. That same assertion says Kawhi is underrated offensively, which I believe wholeheartedly. Don't take me as a Leonard basher. I think he's a superior overall player to Green. He's just not a far superior defender like many Spurs fans and NBA watchers believe.

  17. #42
    Banned wildchild's Avatar
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    No one forgets Leonard's off-ball defense. Harlem is actually saying the opposite of what you're saying. He's saying Kawhi's off-ball defenses make people believe he's a better individual defender than he actually is. He's referring to Leonard being overrated when compared to Green specifically. He believes Green is the better defender, both individual and team, and the numbers bear Harlem out.
    Well, he didn't mention Danny. I couldn't agree more, Green's contribution is so underestimated.
    He's a great defender, the best iso-play defender but not the best perimeter defender because as I said, a good defense is more than that.
    And that's why I don't like the criteria to choose DPOY, you can't think only one side -just blocks or just rebounds or just iso-d, or just...- is the right way/whole picture.
    I love Danny/Kawhi defensive combo, one of the best in the league, these two guys complement one another's strengths and weaknesses, but IMO Leonard is the best defender because his versatility and overall D.

  18. #43
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Well, he didn't mention Danny. I couldn't agree more, Green's contribution is so underestimated.
    He's a great defender, the best iso-play defender but not the best perimeter defender because as I said, a good defense is more than that.
    And that's why I don't like the criteria to choose DPOY, you can't think only one side -just blocks or just rebounds or just iso-d, or just...- is the right way/whole picture.
    I love Danny/Kawhi defensive combo, one of the best in the league, these two guys complement one another's strengths and weaknesses, but IMO Leonard is the best defender because his versatility and overall D.
    Um, Danny is a better help defender as well as on-ball defender. Kawhi is better at getting steals and rebounds in addition to guarding big forwards. That's about it. That's not to disparage Kawhi's defense (and certainly not his overall game, Nono). Rather, it is to explain why the Spurs defense is elite when Pop actually plays the correct rotations. I agree that Danny and Kawhi are both part of a great combo and that they both deserve the credit. But people give Kawhi too much credit, both individual and impact. The stats just don't bear that out.

  19. #44
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    No, Leonard doesn't have to guard the more-threatening player. I addressed that in the second point. I was referring to T's argument that Kawhi has to face physical mismatches more than Green does. You can say MWP (from a couple of years ago) wasn't in the same league as Kobe (and you'd be right). But physically speaking, Kawhi is a better match to guard Kobe than Green is to guard MWP. Didn't stop Danny from shutting Peace down at a time where he was having a bit of a resurgence offensively.
    That's not nearly as difficult when you factor in offensive ability of the opponent. I expect more success from that combination regardless if it's more of a physical mismatch.

  20. #45
    Veteran in2deep's Avatar
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    Kawhi's D overrated, ok Take him off the team and look how bad our d takes a hit. Some people.

  21. #46
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    CP3 probably has the hgihest bbiq in the game.

    You need someone who knows how to read the refs and plays and can make a bad call look like a really bad call imo.

  22. #47
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Where did I say anything about offense? I was defending Harlems' assertion that Leonard is overrated defensively. That same assertion says Kawhi is underrated offensively, which I believe wholeheartedly. Don't take me as a Leonard basher. I think he's a superior overall player to Green. He's just not a far superior defender like many Spurs fans and NBA watchers believe.
    I don't particularly think he's overrated because I haven't heard anybody call him "a lock-down defender" or such cliches... he's a solid perimeter defender and a great rebounder, and in general so is Danny (I still hate Danny buying on pump fakes all the time, he need to stop with that).

    But I also think that some of these conversations focus on very narrow areas and miss the bigger picture (not saying specifically you do, just in general). There's many aspects about defense besides hard numbers. Look at Lillard talking about fatigue and complaining about tough screens. That's credit to the bigs, and that's part of what makes an entire defensive system work. Perhaps against certain teams that do a lot of ISO and 1-on-1 you can get a clearer picture, but the Spurs are a team that has been doing the little things all around, and while you still need solid defensive players to get anywhere, there's simply much more than players isolated on an island.

  23. #48
    GO SPURS GO! hooperflash's Avatar
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    Time for Mr. Leonard to grow up some more.

  24. #49
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Um, Danny is a better help defender as well as on-ball defender. Kawhi is better at getting steals and rebounds in addition to guarding big forwards. That's about it. That's not to disparage Kawhi's defense (and certainly not his overall game, Nono). Rather, it is to explain why the Spurs defense is elite when Pop actually plays the correct rotations. I agree that Danny and Kawhi are both part of a great combo and that they both deserve the credit. But people give Kawhi too much credit, both individual and impact. The stats just don't bear that out.
    The biggest drawback for Danny is that Manu has to play because he's the only other creator on the team. Kawhi in general has it easy. Pop doesn't have to balance offense-defense that much at his position. I also think Pop likes to see if the team can set a serious defensive tone with the starting unit, then do a switcheroo to a full blown offensive lineup and see if the other team buys that defense is still there. Carlisle didn't buy it and made him pay. Stotts so far did.

  25. #50
    MeloHype's Avatar
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    He'll get 2 early fouls, then apalisoc_9 will make 7 threads crying Leonard isn't playing 48 minutes per game

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