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  1. #76
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    I'm looking forward to this game and think that Gay will start unless Pop already has a sixth man role mapped out for him. In which case I could see Beli starting. We need someone who can shoot from the outside of course....I'll be all eyes and ears. I have a feeling we will see Beli and Gay out there together when we're closing some games- Murray, Derozan, Beli, Gay/Bertans, LMA.
    Gay is not gonna start. He is liable to break down. I think he's a good player though.

  2. #77
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    - No, he doesn't and having him do so would be ridiculous.
    He really does. If Green can go on guys like Durant and Lebron, Murray has to be able to go up to Butler. Jimmy is a two-guard who's tough enough to play three. There shouldn't be a two-guard in the league Murray can't check. Danny shut Jimmy down in the season-opener last year. I don't expect DeJounte to do that, especially not the first time. But he's the ace now and has to be able to handle it. Pop would have gladly put George Hill on Butler, and Murray matches up better than Georgie does.

    - Suspect they preferred Brown or Ingram (so long as the Lakers paid a tax for being the Lakers). If they truly wanted DeRozan, the only logical explanation for the delay was haggling over Anunoby because the actual trade was a no brainer for the Raptors.
    It was in the long post, but I'm pretty convinced DeRozan was the "third star" Pop offered to acquire. I think the delay was Toronto switching from seller to buyer. The deal just seems like Toronto was almost as keen to part with DeMar as to acquire Kawhi. Obviously, we'll never know, but if your idea is right, SA should have held the line at OG, Siakam or keeping Green. They just have no defense now, and Toronto wasn't in a position of strength, especially if the word had really gotten out that the Raps were shopping DeMar. They had so much more to lose.

    - This is the same coach who had Mills and Forbes guarding Thompson and Durant, yet you think Gay starting at SF would be a stretch? There's not a shortage of SF or wing minutes because White is unlikely to have as big a role as many assume or he should.
    It's the coach that clearly thinks guards on larger players makes sense. That's why I don't think he'll worry about having Gay's size on the first unit. He might do it for a number of reasons, but I hope you wouldn't be legit surprised if Pop ran three guards out of the gate.

    - Considering Cunningham is in his prime, has been a rotation player for 7 seasons and a part time starter for 4, it's safe to say he's not joining a non contender to be buried on the deep bench. In small ball matchups, expect him to be the 4th big (at Poeltl's expense).
    Cunningham's highest salary in his career was $3 Million. He's been to the playoffs three times in his career. He's not some high-stock guy who had his choice of places. That's even more true if the Spurs offered him several hundred-thousand bucks over the min. Maybe the dude signed on with the idea that he had a chance at a spot, but he definitely didn't sign on with a guarantee. I like Cun better than most dudes here seem to, but he's not getting minutes over any of the top 10/11 unless he shows out.

    - Belinelli isn't competing for a rotation spot. He's got that on lock. Whether you agree that he should or not, you should know better.
    You're right, and in that long post I said as much. The point that I was making is that Bertans and Beli are the bottom two guys in the rotation if Poeltl (or in your theory Poeltl or Cunningham) have a fixed spot. If you also fix Beli, that means you have Murray, Mills, DeRozan, Aldridge, Gasol, Ginobili, Belinelli, Gay and Poeltl(/Cun) as the nine locks. Like sure, Bertans can slot into that last spot, but so can White, or Cun(/Poeltl) or Forbes or whomever the Spurs bring in for that last spot.

    - Maybe, but as long as Ginobili is playing, the ball is going to primarily be in his hands on the 2nd unit. Point is, the Raptors 2nd unit has a bunch of guys who can make plays in different ways and that Spurs one would too.
    I disagree. They'd only have the one. Poe completely depends on someone feeding him and the others are guys whose percentages go way down when they have to dribble. Gay can get his own shot at least. He also gives a big skilled forward to cause match-up problems. No one in your proposed unit can threaten a defense like he can.

  3. #78
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    I think that White, Cunningham and Poeltl are going to get a lot more minutes at the end of the season which will be a good thing.

  4. #79
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    Pop might come up with a surprise starting five

    Lamarcus at center, Gay and Murray at forwards

    Manu and Derozan at guards

    Anything is posible, lol

  5. #80
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    No. Probably Beli will start. They need 3 point shooting and Gay will be scorer off the bench.
    No way pop starts Beli ad DDR together on the perimeter. Murray, DDR, Gay, LMA, and Gasol is the most likely SL.

  6. #81
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    I suspect that Spurs will trade Pau Gasol to Memphis in exchange for Kyle Anderson and someone else.

    The Gasol brothers will eventually want to play together and it appears to be setup this way.

  7. #82
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    I think this year team can actually cause match up problems for other teams. We have a lot of versatility at the guard position. That is what is needed.

  8. #83
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    I suspect that Spurs will trade Pau Gasol to Memphis in exchange for Kyle Anderson and someone else.

    The Gasol brothers will eventually want to play together and it appears to be setup this way.
    Whoa! Seriously? Or are you trolling? Not like you to troll, but man that is the most novel, ST-blowing idea I've read in a while.

  9. #84
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    From Gay-Bertans duo, Rudy is the 4 and Davis is the 3. You can use the "size-of-ass" criteria or what this really means: quickness, lateral movement, mobility far from the ring, transition speed, strength under the board, etc. Add to this the 3pt shooting. I believe Popovich is trying Davis in the SF, it's his natural position, he's only played PF in the NBA.

    Inserting Bertans in the starting SF will fix the spacing problem. Defensively, Is it worst to have Bertans guarding SF than having Marco doing it or all the problems would cause having Mills? I doubt so. what would be Bertans weakness in defense, being beaten? You have two bigs to protect the rim. On the other hand, Davis can rotate and contest quickly all over the place, can switch with bigs and give a hand protecting the rim and rebounding. He's fast and good running the court as a wing as well. To me is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure if Pop will do it.

    Murray-DeRozan-Bertans-Aldridge-Gasol/Poetl
    Mills-Manu-Marco-Gay-Gasol/Poetl
    White would be the wildcard to replace anybody in the rotation in case of injury, rest, CD and Forbes, Cunningham 12th 13th men.
    Given Davis' history in Europe, that makes sense. On the other hand, NBA SFs are a lot quicker/more athletic. I think Pop will give that lineup a hard look, though. And I hope that before too many games pass, White gets penciled in for Manu in that second unit. I also hope Poodle overtakes Pau pretty quickly. Pau is still reasonably serviceable most games; Poodle's overtaking him would bode well for the Team. Maybe even set up a Pau-to-Memphis trade (see ceperez above).

  10. #85
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    Pop is not gonna play Warrior small ball. While the rest of the NBA mimics Warrior small ball, and loses, Pop is gonna go conventional and run the three point shooters of the three. Gay will be fine as the starting SF in such a role as we are going to crowd the shooters and force them into the bigs. He does not have to keep up with them, he just needs to keep them off the three.

  11. #86
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    Here's what I see our line-ups against GSW/Rox being:

    Starters: Murray/DDR/Cunningham/Bertans/Aldridge Bench: White/Ginobili/Acy/Gay/Poeltl

    Shooting and defense balanced more or less. Gasol, Mills, Forbes and Belinelli will be assumed to be unplayable.

  12. #87
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    Is there a “prime” for a Dante Cunningham?



    He really does. If Green can go on guys like Durant and Lebron, Murray has to be able to go up to Butler. Jimmy is a two-guard who's tough enough to play three. There shouldn't be a two-guard in the league Murray can't check. Danny shut Jimmy down in the season-opener last year. I don't expect DeJounte to do that, especially not the first time. But he's the ace now and has to be able to handle it. Pop would have gladly put George Hill on Butler, and Murray matches up better than Georgie does.
    While he did it by default on occasion, Green was too small to guard James (which is why Diaw was the secondary defender in the '13 and '14 Finals) and Durant doesn't have the strength of James or Butler. Butler isn't an SG; he's a power wing and Murray is too slight to guard those types.

    You're also presuming Mills starts. If Gay does, that means DeRozan would have to defend PG's on occasion, which he can't do.

    It was in the long post, but I'm pretty convinced DeRozan was the "third star" Pop offered to acquire. I think the delay was Toronto switching from seller to buyer. The deal just seems like Toronto was almost as keen to part with DeMar as to acquire Kawhi. Obviously, we'll never know, but if your idea is right, SA should have held the line at OG, Siakam or keeping Green. They just have no defense now, and Toronto wasn't in a position of strength, especially if the word had really gotten out that the Raps were shopping DeMar. They had so much more to lose.
    Nah. DeRozan would have been a terrible fit playing off of Leonard and to a lesser extent Aldridge because he's useless off ball. As limited as I think DeRozan's value was if this didn't fall into the Raptors lap, the Spurs wouldn't have otherwise had the assets. Even though the Raptors clearly wanted to move on, it would have been a PR nightmare to trade him for something like financial relief, a B prospect and late 1st.

    It's the coach that clearly thinks guards on larger players makes sense. That's why I don't think he'll worry about having Gay's size on the first unit. He might do it for a number of reasons, but I hope you wouldn't be legit surprised if Pop ran three guards out of the gate.
    I would be mildly surprised.

    Cunningham's highest salary in his career was $3 Million. He's been to the playoffs three times in his career. He's not some high-stock guy who had his choice of places. That's even more true if the Spurs offered him several hundred-thousand bucks over the min. Maybe the dude signed on with the idea that he had a chance at a spot, but he definitely didn't sign on with a guarantee. I like Cun better than most dudes here seem to, but he's not getting minutes over any of the top 10/11 unless he shows out.
    Not a guarantee, but if he didn't believe he was going to be at least a part time rotation player, I seriously doubt he signs. As minimal as he is, as I've alluded too numerous times, the league clearly doesn't view him that way.


    You're right, and in that long post I said as much. The point that I was making is that Bertans and Beli are the bottom two guys in the rotation if Poeltl (or in your theory Poeltl or Cunningham) have a fixed spot. If you also fix Beli, that means you have Murray, Mills, DeRozan, Aldridge, Gasol, Ginobili, Belinelli, Gay and Poeltl(/Cun) as the nine locks. Like sure, Bertans can slot into that last spot, but so can White, or Cun(/Poeltl) or Forbes or whomever the Spurs bring in for that last spot.
    No, I have Bertans as the 9th lock, not Poeltl/Cunningham. I have them as the 10th, depending on the matchup. Belinelli probably plays the 2nd most minutes off the bench, behind Mills.


    I disagree. They'd only have the one. Poe completely depends on someone feeding him and the others are guys whose percentages go way down when they have to dribble. Gay can get his own shot at least. He also gives a big skilled forward to cause match-up problems. No one in your proposed unit can threaten a defense like he can.
    Gay isn't a p-n-r initiator though; he's a mid post ISO scorer. He's not creating for the rest of the 2nd unit any more than Mills' off ball movement/gravity would.

  13. #88
    Veteran 8FOR!3's Avatar
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    My guess is:

    Murray
    Mills
    DeRozan
    Aldridge
    Gasol

    Not going to analyze how I feel about it until we see who actually starts and how it looks, but that's my best guess at what they'll go with.

  14. #89
    Mods ruined spurstalk!!!! Walter Donovan's Avatar
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    Here's what I see our line-ups against GSW/Rox being:

    Starters: Murray/DDR/Cunningham/Bertans/Aldridge Bench: White/Ginobili/Acy/Gay/Poeltl

    Shooting and defense balanced more or less. Gasol, Mills, Forbes and Belinelli will be assumed to be unplayable.
    What was the point of signing Ferrari then? Your lineups are delusional at best.

    1: Murray, Mills, White, Forbes
    2: Belinelli, Ginobili, Walker
    3: DeRozan, Gay, Cunningham
    4: Aldridge, Bertans, Metu
    5: Gasol, Poetl

    This is very likely the depth chart and lineups you’re going to see.

  15. #90
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    No way pop starts Beli ad DDR together on the perimeter. Murray, DDR, Gay, LMA, and Gasol is the most likely SL.
    This team isn’t winning games with defense. They can’t outscore teams without having a three point shooter on the floor at all times.

  16. #91
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    Disagree. Spurs found themselves in way too many big holes because their SL couldn't score for last year. Pop needs to figure out a SL that doesn't have us digging out of a hole to start every second quarter
    Absolutely! This! Especially early when the parts are still meshing, we need strong starts. A team with a lot of new/young pieces is not nearly as prepared to stage come-backs as a veteran team that has played together for awhile. We saw that last season.

    I do agree that Pop has to win the ones we have a chance and not try to make a point and loose and easy game.
    Yep. Dropping a game to spark a team that was not giving good effort in the GOAT era was one thing. Trying that same shtick with this team of young/new guys seems like a bad/risky idea to me.

  17. #92
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    Derrick White has surpassed expectations repeatedly in the last few years, in college, in the G League, and in Summer League...
    I'm hoping he can do it again this year and finish the season with 20+ MPG. His advanced stats have been consistently good, so he's not putting up empty numbers, and he has the potential to match/beat Danny Green's 3PT% & D while easily surpassing his passing & ball handling abilities. I think he's the single player I'm most interested in watching develop this year.

  18. #93
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    My guess is:

    Murray
    Mills
    DeRozan
    Aldridge
    Gasol

    Not going to analyze how I feel about it until we see who actually starts and how it looks, but that's my best guess at what they'll go with.

    How about
    Murray
    Ginobili
    DeRozen
    Aldridge
    Gasol

    No law exists that Manu must come off the bench.

  19. #94
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    These potential lineups are horrendous. I'm most interested in the progression of White this year tbh.

  20. #95
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    What was the point of signing Ferrari then? Your lineups are delusional at best.

    1: Murray, Mills, White, Forbes
    2: Belinelli, Ginobili, Walker
    3: DeRozan, Gay, Cunningham
    4: Aldridge, Bertans, Metu
    5: Gasol, Poetl

    This is very likely the depth chart and lineups you’re going to see.
    OK so how will we guard Durant/Lebron/Kawhi/Butler/PG13?

  21. #96
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    How about
    Murray
    Ginobili
    DeRozen
    Aldridge
    Gasol

    No law exists that Manu must come off the bench.
    Problem with starting Manu is that he is going to play few minutes for most games and he'll sit out a number. I think the Spurs will want a more consistent unit. Plus, the Spurs need three point shooting in their starting line up, which means either Mills or Belli. They'll figure it out defensively, but this team has to have space since its two best scorers are two point scorers that like to operate in the paint.

  22. #97
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    Problem with starting Manu is that he is going to play few minutes for most games and he'll sit out a number. I think the Spurs will want a more consistent unit. Plus, the Spurs need three point shooting in their starting line up, which means either Mills or Belli. They'll figure it out defensively, but this team has to have space since its two best scorers are two point scorers that like to operate in the paint.
    It could be a good unit to start the season where our calendar is hard and our experience will be little, the he can slide back to the bench when DeRozan and whoever beats him for the starting lineup are up to the task defensively.

  23. #98
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    Murray
    White
    Derozan
    Bertans
    Aldridge

  24. #99
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    OK so how will we guard Durant/Lebron/Kawhi/Butler/PG13?
    The Spurs wont. They don’t have anybody on the roster or any lineup capable of doing that. Stop pretending they do.

  25. #100
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    While he did it by default on occasion, Green was too small to guard James (which is why Diaw was the secondary defender in the '13 and '14 Finals) and Durant doesn't have the strength of James or Butler. Butler isn't an SG; he's a power wing and Murray is too slight to guard those types.

    You're also presuming Mills starts. If Gay does, that means DeRozan would have to defend PG's on occasion, which he can't do.
    Butler isn't going to be posting anyone up and down the floor. He's a slasher. There's no reason why Murray can't just use length and quick hands to guard him. James destroyed Diaw in 14, and Pop gave up on that after the first game.

    Of course I'm presuming Mills starts instead of Gay. That's been my opposing position to yours this whole time.

    Nah. DeRozan would have been a terrible fit playing off of Leonard and to a lesser extent Aldridge because he's useless off ball. As limited as I think DeRozan's value was if this didn't fall into the Raptors lap, the Spurs wouldn't have otherwise had the assets. Even though the Raptors clearly wanted to move on, it would have been a PR nightmare to trade him for something like financial relief, a B prospect and late 1st.
    DeRozan is an abysmal fit next to Gay and Murray, but you think Pop would ignore that. Between Mills and Leonard? That's fine, especially if Bertans started at the four. DMDR would essentially be replacing Parker on offense. Having that guard scorer would have been just what the doctor ordered. Were there players I'd rather have as the third member of the Big Three? Yes, of course. But for what they could give up (Murray, Green, Gasol, 18 and a first), I think that's the best they could get.

    I would be mildly surprised.
    It's almost literally the only option if Gay doesn't start. It can't be that surprising.

    Not a guarantee, but if he didn't believe he was going to be at least a part time rotation player, I seriously doubt he signs. As minimal as he is, as I've alluded too numerous times, the league clearly doesn't view him that way.
    The league doesn't view him as anything special. This is his last season compared to two guys who are currently out of the league and to Rasual Butler (RIP) the year before he signed his non-guaranteed year with SA.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    They are very similar in terms of uses, and Cun is solidly middle-of-the-road compared to those guys in terms of performance. If he had been as sought after as you seem to think, he wouldn't have stayed in Brooklyn all year. Teams like Cleveland had open spots all the way until the end of the season. Nope, the reality is that had SA not signed Dante, he could very well be in China right now.

    No, I have Bertans as the 9th lock, not Poeltl/Cunningham. I have them as the 10th, depending on the matchup. Belinelli probably plays the 2nd most minutes off the bench, behind Mills.
    Beli may play more minutes than Ginobili, but he's clearly not higher up on the lock list. Also, it doesn't make sense that Bertans is more of a lock than Poeltl. Jakob has been a significantly better player and has more NBA experience. It's really not close between the two of them. Pop certainly starts rookies off slowly, but he doesn't have same bias toward new vets. When talking about salaries as small as Bertans' and Poeltl's it doesn't make a ton of sense to assign in bency there. That's even more true considering how much rim protection is needed. Bertans would have a rotation spot if he were so good that he had to play. But guys with his salary sit all the time.

    Gay isn't a p-n-r initiator though; he's a mid post ISO scorer. He's not creating for the rest of the 2nd unit any more than Mills' off ball movement/gravity would.
    First, Gay can create just fine when he wants to. But second, Gay doesn't have to be a play-maker in his own right to relieve Manu's burden. Just him being able to catch the ball and make something happen or being a guy they can throw it to in the post would help

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