And I suppose I didn't explain things enough
But yes, the Showcasing is what it is, but it's a 'scam', and a good one Or rather, playing NBA teams for suckers.
I don't think those guys would have been as successful as standing out against the backdrop of the talent in the French league.
Each of the guys I named, who did play the showcase game successfully, were over drafted. Their potential was an illusion, buoyed by something in the makeup of NBA media and teams that sees French players in other leagues that subconsciously equals, "They were too good for France and had to stretch their talents elsewhere".
But 8 suspect it's a farce, a trick played on the NBA by smart players and their agents.
I assume this were the Hawks reaching out. If the Spurs really want Collins they should reach out to Indy to see what they want for Brogdon and make it a 3-team deal. I think ATL would do Brogdon for Collins straight up.
If the Spurs trade DJ they have basically admitted that what they did the past 5 years was idiotic
He's a fool and wrong as Sharpe is going inside the top 10.
What‘s also funny is that the last trade discussion around John Collins was centered around Harrison BarnesHawks are probably just trying to increase the price by leaking this info
Yep. This is how you create a market. Or try to.What‘s also funny is that the last trade discussion around John Collins was centered around Harrison Barnes
Interesting
I understand the argument for trading Murray
Having watched a lot of Collins- I don't see the attraction. Also, if he's so good why is Atlanta trying offload him?
I think Lamelo and Giddey succeeding there, could have influenced him.
Still, he remains for me a very risky project with high bust potential. His highlights look good, until you realize he cant really shoot and only the few shots he made are in those clips. Talk about misleading.
He reminds me of Samanic in being a player with a lot of theoretical skills that aren't really good enough, also in being showcased as a shooter that can’t shoot.
His upside is also not sky high for such a risk. He has roleplayer potential. Hes at best Batum, but Batum was much better at his age and had a better shot. The odds are he’s below Batum level. TBH, I don’t even like him with 20 bc he has no bankable skill.
Ultimate boom or bust projects are why teams end up with a bust taken in the lottery gambling on upside and youth on guys that dont have a single skill they can contribute right away, while passing up better players bc they are older or have a perceived flaw like shorter arms than desired, tweener size, or character. Still those flawed guys have skill, and can play basketball. They end up panning out somewhere. Their flaw wasn’t that they can’t play basketball well enough.
This is one case where being super young is misleading as a positive. You let him get away with things that in a year or two will drop him completely from your board. If he doesn't develop you don't have a player that can do anything well. A lot of things need to go right to hit on this one. That is why I would not take him this high.
A caveat, Spurs may think his shot is fixable to get him at 9. That is one of those things where time will tell. If he's drafted I hope they are right.
I suppose they wan at assets for him to trade to the Spurs for Murray.
The significance of this rumor for me is that it marks the beginning of a process where he will ultimately end up being traded. It can be a year from now, but it's probably happening. It doesn’t even have to end up being to ATL. Manny could be interested to, which is why they need to turn D’Angelo into other assets the Spurs want.
Spurs aren't keeping Murray long term. They are in the first couple of years of a rebuild that they chose to make slow and gradual. Murray is a player in his prime that is growing tired of losing. I don’t see the Spurs making win now moves to appease him, because they remain knee deep in a slow rebuild. They dont really want to tank, and are open to fleecing moves like Derricks. They are not above trading anyone but they expect a haul. On the flip side, they aren’t making efforts to sign any significant FA and dont want to give up a single asset to add talent like gong after Ayton for example. (And this is just an example)
Basically they are in the business of collecting assets, drafting and developing youngins until they hit. Murray will outgrow that.
I was in shock bc I have talked about this for a while, and yet when it became a mainstream topic my main reaction was denial. Truth is, Id rather keep Murray, but I already see the way this is going, and I want the Spurs to get a.haul for him. To set themselves up for a rebuild like New Orleans. Lost a lot of talent, but were able to rebuild a team with a ton of assets gathered. Grizzlies kind of the same after trading Gasol and Conley — they were lucky in getting Ja — but they collected assets and drafted well and turned things around quickly.
The mistake would be holding on to him past the point where he can continue to tolerate the losing and then there is urgency. Still I dont expect a trade to happen quickly at all. Spurs have leverage here. It took a while to trade White, Murray will take longer.
When was the locker room thing? Was this against NO? Also, someone else mentioned a spat with Pop on the bench? When did those things happen as I don't remember said incidents.
Timvp DO NOT listen to Mac Miller today.
Spurs tend to do the opposite of this. We didn't hear anything about White until he was traded. Murray name being in the wind is against the spurs MO.
Not to say he won't ever be traded. But it's not happening anytime soon. The spurs aren't that far away from being a perennial playoff team. Just need to get a real pf and real center. They can do both this year.
i'd be okay with this or, better yet, the spurs trading the 9th and 20th to move up just a couple of spots and possibly grabbing mathurin.. . . . for example, trading 25 and 38 to move up a couple spots to get a player they really like is a no-brainer due to their vast collection of picks.
It’s uncharacteristics of the Spurs to be taking calls on their no. 1 guy, letting know he’s available. I agree with Sagirl that DJ will eventually get moved, and it doesn’t have to be today. I think DH has expressed frusrations, and the PATFO is catering on his demands and getting the best haul for him. I think if they would do it, they should it before the draft and leverage them on the players that they want. Personally, I would welcome a pairing of Ivey and Collins by the end of the day, however the PATFO work on the details, or a Davis and Collins. Personally I see Davis as having the bigger upsides than Murray. I’ve discussed before that I believe Murray has reached his ceiling and will just improve marginally. DJ is a borderline All-Star. He avoids contact ariund the rim, preventing him from getting to the line more. He settles on the elbow shot and crossover, relatively less effective in closing the game and playoffs situation. While Davis relishes contacts, where he earns 25% of his points. But more so, I think Davis is the better leader. Honestly I’m tired of DJ’s twitter-happy fingers, not very Spursy. I think DJ pads stats to get individual glory. That MIP award was on his head, and steals leader. Many times I see him gable for a steal, and gets burned with his guy blowing him by. These are not Big 3 characteristics, who could care less if their names are mentioned in the nightly highlights.
I think we will see some trades uncharacteristics of the Spurs. And it started with Derrick. Poeltl will be moved. The roster was just flawed from the Kawhi debacle that the PATFO to patch, but it doesn’t work. And I have a feeling they have decided to overhaul it finally. Buckle up Spurs fan!
Both White and Murray have been in trade rumors -- even to Atlanta -- for years now. I do think this rumor is baseless, but it comes from a logical place.
Also, Murray's not going to go for a superstar package.
Murray isn't really that far out of the timeline. If you're going to have a impactful player that is older than the timeline you want to be the pg anyway. He has many good years ahead of him and I don't believe he's at peak value today anymore than he would be this time next year.
This team is one good player away from making the playoffs and a star away from being a threat to get past the second round. Unless its an absurd haul I don't see any reason to move DJ. This draft and offseason has the potential to move the needle and it would be worth at least getting to the trade line or next years off season to find out.
#Cavs have had conversations with San Antonio about Murray going back to February at the trade deadline, when they also inquired about Derrick White.
Agreed. Plus not all firsts are created equal, getting 3 firsts from a team that is playoff bound in that timespan, isn't all that enticing to me. You need multiple tries + years of development, and once you get there you don't give it away. I'm not opposed to a trade if it brings something we REALLY need, but it better be "an offer we can't refuse".
Spurs should still try to get Collins without involving Murray, Keldon or Vassell tbh
Do you consider the Jrue Holiday package to be that of a superstar?
This. Such a no brainer that I'm confident it isn't even on Wright's radar
I don't see the logic in the Collins/Murray trade for the Spurs, unless they don't think he's worth paying. I would say Atlanta would have to give up a lot more than Collins.
That one might require a help from a Jedi
No, I consider a great young player and three unprotected lotto picks a superstar package.
I don't think the Spurs want a Jrue package either, to be fair. They'd want something concrete rather than just "value". They didn't do that with White, and I think they regret it. If Murray's not traded today, I don't think he'll be traded before next off-season/draft.
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