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  1. #26
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    I blame Pop, if he gets a majority of the praise when they win then he deserves the majority when they lose. To me it just seems like a very poorly coached team. Tbh.
    Agree 100%.

    If Pop had already started experimenting and began playing the young guys and try to put every player in a position to where they could be most successfull then i would lay all the blame on the players. But the lineups are confusing and seem to be putting almost every player in a spot to fail.

    Like with Murray. "Okay Murray you are our new starter but you will be next to 2 players who can't defend so try to help them." What ends up happening? DJ trying to steal passes, overselling on double teams, essentially trying to do too much. He's got the energy but if he had the help *cough* WHITE *cough* he could actually be better.

  2. #27
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    It's the whole starting lineup. Stop putting the blame on DD. The whole starting lineup has massive negative rating, while 20% shooting, defenseless Beli is +18. The Spurs heavily relying on their bench is an understatement. The starting lineup is a show of a mess.
    True, but as I see it, the main issue is DeRozan. His poor D creates trouble when paired with other poor defenders because he can't be hidden. His non existent three point shot lets defenders sag and help, and clogs the lane. His body language is terrible. He can't come off the bench because he's a "star," even though a decade's worth of advanced stats say otherwise. True stars/max players usually have a body of work that illustrates how they affect winning. DeRozan's body of work shows the opposite. He's the highest paid Spur, but instead of being the most versatile piece on the team, he's the most difficult to slot with other players. The starting line up is a mess because Derrick White should be in it, but isn't because the "star" needs to start.

  3. #28
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    It's the whole starting lineup. Stop putting the blame on DD. The whole starting lineup has massive negative rating, while 20% shooting, defenseless Beli is +18. The Spurs heavily relying on their bench is an understatement. The starting lineup is a show of a mess.
    I believe it has more to do with Forbes and his lack of D. If there is any adjustment thats needed and its with him. But knowing Pop, he will just Forbes with Mills.

  4. #29
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    True, but as I see it, the main issue is DeRozan. His poor D creates trouble when paired with other poor defenders because he can't be hidden. His non existent three point shot lets defenders sag and help, and clogs the lane. His body language is terrible. He can't come off the bench because he's a "star," even though a decade's worth of advanced stats say otherwise. True stars/max players usually have a body of work that illustrates how they affect winning. DeRozan's body of work shows the opposite. He's the highest paid Spur, but instead of being the most versatile piece on the team, he's the most difficult to slot with other players. The starting line up is a mess because Derrick White should be in it, but isn't because the "star" needs to start.
    I agree with this 100%

  5. #30
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    White was +6 in 22 minutes, while DeRozan was -15 in 37 minutes. Pretty typical... the entire team flows better with White in there. For the year DeRozan is at -53. White is at +18. Last season was the same: DeRozan at +10, White at +152. DeRozan was 8th on the team in +/- last year and is 13th this year. Pretty much unheard of for the highest paid player on a team. Giannis, Kawhi, & LeBron are all #1 on their team in the +/- stat.


    https://www.foxsports.com/nba/san-an...tOrder=0&opp=0
    plus-minus

  6. #31
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    Exactly. Where is defensive minded pop? did that Pop completely die? its maddening how he continues to trot out Forbes when he's essentially a mismatch against every player he plays against. And DDR not being a good defender definitely makes matters worse.
    Forbes is a made man. I have no idea how as I don't view him as being much different than Gary Neal or Roger Mason but he's somehow outlasted both of those guys. I expect PATFO are going to compensate him with a very generous contract this summer like they did Mills. That's when the fans will really turn on him.

  7. #32
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    Forbes is a made man. I have no idea how as I don't view him as being much different than Gary Neal or Roger Mason but he's somehow outlasted both of those guys. I expect PATFO are going to compensate him with a very generous contract this summer like they did Mills. That's when the fans will really turn on him.
    Yup. Forbes actually really grew on me last year. He was consistent in the playoffs and was really the only one who showed up in game 7 last year. Him in a bench role would probably not only help him but help the team. He's just being put in a position to fail IMO.

  8. #33
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Sadly the beginning of the year is our easy part of the schedule.
    And save for Murray’s minutes restrictions they are all healthy.

    I was just thinking perhaps they would improve with injuries bc Pop would be forced to play other guys and find different lineups to adjust...

  9. #34
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Plus-minus with a small sample size doesn't mean much-- but when the sample size is a whole season, or a whole decade, you can't deny its relevance. There's a reason Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George, Harden, etc are regularly #1 in +/- on their teams and why their teams are challenging for championships. They're great players who make a difference. DeRozan's numbers are empty calories, easily replaced by inexpensive average net-zero role players.

  10. #35
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    Unless you intend to showcase him for a trade, I see no benefit to having Defrozen in the starting lineup. He's gone in a year anyway so who gives a damn if his feeling get hurt. Switch him out with Derrick and see if that helps the ball movement/spacing in the starting lineup. Dumbar can feast on the opposing benches.

  11. #36
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Plus-minus with a small sample size doesn't mean much-- but when the sample size is a whole season, or a whole decade, you can't deny its relevance. There's a reason Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George, Harden, etc are regularly #1 in +/- on their teams and why their teams are challenging for championships. They're great players who make a difference. DeRozan's numbers are empty calories, easily replaced by inexpensive average net-zero role players.
    and you brought up plus minus for a single game then attempted to extrapolate

  12. #37
    Like I said... tmtcsc's Avatar
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    Maybe 40% of the grade is how fast Pop can waddle over to the opposing coach after an L to slurp him off, because that's been at an A+ level all year.
    Perfectly said.

  13. #38
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    Poeltl's total lack of boxing out is starting to really piss me off. I don't know if he was that bad last year - I'd like to think I would have noticed. But this year he's been like a middle school kid who grew 6 inches over the summer, but doesn't have any understanding of what to do with it.
    Thats plain stupid what you say here. How can he box out when he has to help another defender cause Mills, Forbes etc. are not able to stay in front of their man. Unlike Lyles he actually tries to Defend and not just wait for the rebound. yes he could stay under their rim and just wait if someone misses, but thats not defending. I dont care you gets the rebound, i care about that everybody plays defense. At the moment its terrible.

  14. #39
    Believe. KimmyGib's Avatar
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    Eventually (inevitably I think) Murry and White will both be fixtures in the team's starting lineup. Why Pop is continuing to put that off with all the present issues is anyone's guess.

    Moves like White into the sl, DDR in a 6th man role, Forbes off the bench, and Belinelli out of the rotation are not only worth exploring, but must be explored before this team gets too deep in the hole. Like others have said, it's a problem that Pop is being so rigid this early in the season when clearly changes are needed.

  15. #40
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Thats plain stupid what you say here. How can he box out when he has to help another defender cause Mills, Forbes etc. are not able to stay in front of their man. Unlike Lyles he actually tries to Defend and not just wait for the rebound. yes he could stay under their rim and just wait if someone misses, but thats not defending. I dont care you gets the rebound, i care about that everybody plays defense. At the moment its terrible.

    A Lakers fan who has (obviously) never actually played basketball. That explains a lot of the other you've said here.

    Buh'bye.

  16. #41
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    and you brought up plus minus for a single game then attempted to extrapolate
    Because it's part of a ten year trend that some people around here seem to think can easily be altered.

  17. #42
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    Plus-minus with a small sample size doesn't mean much-- but when the sample size is a whole season, or a whole decade, you can't deny its relevance. There's a reason Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George, Harden, etc are regularly #1 in +/- on their teams and why their teams are challenging for championships. They're great players who make a difference. DeRozan's numbers are empty calories, easily replaced by inexpensive average net-zero role players.
    Paul George isn't any better than DeRozan.

  18. #43
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Wow, 34-10FTs? Didn’t watch the game but damn that’s a lot of extra points for them

  19. #44
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Paul George isn't any better than DeRozan.
    He's significantly better, and it's not even close. Better eFG%, better 3pt%, better defender, better rebounder, more steals, more blocks, higher VORP, better BPM...



    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

  20. #45
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    Paul George isn't any better than DeRozan.
    haha, right

  21. #46
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    Paul George isn't any better than DeRozan.
    FTFY.

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