Debt ceiling thread, 2023 edition

[Trainwreck2100]

So Biden says he will negotiate budget cuts after they pass a clean debt ceiling bill. Lets assume Republicans do exactly that when they realize there is no other choice.

Odds are about 10-1 Biden's handlers then s backwards on budget talks after they get their bloated budget passed.

Then, good news, the Republicans wouldn't have to pass the budget

[Winehole23]

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/23/o...t-ceiling.html

[Winehole23]

President Joe Biden said on Friday he was not yet ready to invoke the 14th Amendment to avoid the United States defaulting on its debts as early as June 1, comments which for the first time suggested he has not ruled out the option.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bid...lt-2023-05-06/

[Winehole23]

I'm more and more convinced that the simplest way out of the debt-ceiling morass would be to start issuing perpetual bonds or consols (sometimes dubbed "Peter-Pan" bonds, since they never mature or grow up )which simply offer a fixed payment every year, with no face value. This would seem to be immune to court challenges -- unlike the cons utional gambit or the platinum coin. The Republicans in the House are manifestly crazy, so there's no hope there.


One question is how much bigger the term premium would be to borrow longer term in this way.


Posted by kevin quinn at 9:58 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest





6 comments:


Anonymous said..."One question is how much bigger the term premium would be to borrow longer term in this way."

British Consol debt was remarkably rater stable for decades, only losing ground as the Pound began to seriously falter:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=fRnr

January 4, 2017

Consol (Long-term bond) yields in United Kingdom, 1855-2016

May 7, 2023 at 10:57 AM

https://econospeak.blogspot.com/2023...to-rescue.html

[Winehole23]

Republicans won't negotiate. It was never about negotiation. They want unilateral cuts.

Chances are Biden will budge and Republicans won't.

Brandon should tell Republicans to pound sand and mint the coin/invoke the 14th, etc.

[Winehole23]

[scott]

I just took Joe at his word. Deficit reduction is really important to him. I'm waiting to see his counter proposal. You know there will be one.

and LOL @ you and YOUR talking points.

I mean, the deficit has been reduced every year of Biden's presidency, much like it was in almost every year of Obama's presidency (all but his last year in office). In fact, McCarthy's Daddy Trump is the only President in modern history to successively increase the deficit each year of his Presidency

[baseline bum]

I mean, the deficit has been reduced every year of Biden's presidency, much like it was in almost every year of Obama's presidency (all but his last year in office). In fact, McCarthy's Daddy Trump is the only President in modern history to successively increase the deficit each year of his Presidency

LOL Republicans and the deficit. Just sounds better to about the deficit rather than say they want lower taxes on American oligarchs.

[scott]

LOL Republicans and the deficit. Just sounds better to about the deficit rather than say they want lower taxes on American oligarchs.

I'm honestly surprised that Democrats don't run more on the spending considering how much better at it they are than Republicans, but then I remembered GOP voters will pretty much believe anything the GOP tells them, regardless of accuracy.

[TDMVPDPOY]

so have they paid down any of the debt yet?


paying interest to foreign govts who bought american debt bonds....who then go buy private/public assets/utilities, holding everyone to ransom

[SnakeBoy]

"WASHINGTON High-stakes talks over raising the debit limit abruptly came to a halt Friday on Capitol Hill, after Republican negotiators walked out of the room and blamed the White House for holding up discussions.

"Until people are willing to have reasonable conversations about how you can actually move forward and do the right thing, then we're not gonna sit here and talk to ourselves," Rep. Garret Graves, R-La., told reporters.

Apparently Ole Joe is too senile to be reasonable

[ChumpDumper]

yeah, you're the reasonable ones trying to destroy the economy over useless work requirements that only satisfy your emotions

[FuzzyLumpkins]

yeah, you're the reasonable ones trying to destroy the economy over useless work requirements that only satisfy your emotions

And after several empirical trials, much like Kansas and supply side, it doesn't work.

[Winehole23]

[Extra Stout]

Folks here think the Republicans won’t actually go through with it because it would harm the oligarchs, but do they really control the party these days? Peter Thiel thought the -eating, cousin- ing cracker agenda was kayfabe, but then the lights came on in his head that they really do want to throw him off a rooftop. The orcs would gladly burn down the economy to own the libs.

[baseline bum]

Folks here think the Republicans won’t actually go through with it because it would harm the oligarchs, but do they really control the party these days? Peter Thiel thought the -eating, cousin- ing cracker agenda was kayfabe, but then the lights came on in his head that they really do want to throw him off a rooftop. The orcs would gladly burn down the economy to own the libs.

The oligarchs control McCarthy though. If Boebert, MTG, Gohmert, or Gosar was speaker then it would be a different story since they're white nationalists.

[Winehole23]

[ElNono]

The GOP doesn't have any leverage. If they want to watch the world burn, they'll have to own it.

The posturing right now on both sides is to ensure the blame game falls where it should.

[boutons_deux]

Since 2001, when the repugs came into office and ran through huge tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, and when they repeated that in 2017, the repugs have cut taxes and increase subsidies for the wealthy and corporations at every possible chance

Now the repugs, cheap s to the Capitalist oligarchy, refuse to raise revenue by $0.05 on the wealthy corporations while cutting trillions from the social safety net

They don't care that tens of millions of their poor WHITE voters will be hurt by cutting the social safety net

[Winehole23]

Ryan Cooper is right about the consistent tone of technocratic special pleading. A lot of what she talks about is about previously being out to lunch on economic trends.

[Winehole23]

McCarthy pwned, Republican far right, pissed off

On a House Freedom Caucus call Monday night, Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colo., floated using the motion to vacate, a rule that would allow any member of Congress to force a vote to remove the speaker, two sources familiar with the call told NBC News. Buck, speaking toward the end of the call, referred to it as the “elephant in the room,” one source said.

After House Freedom Caucus Chairman Scott Perry, R-Pa., suggested it might be too early for such a drastic threat, Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., proposed using the threat to force McCarthy to allow members to amend the bill on the House floor, under an "open rule" that could stall[COLOR=var(--article-body-content-strong)] the bill's passage.[/COLOR]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...eake-rcna86797

[Spurs Homer]

Not sure why repukes are upset with the deal their leader negotiated masterfully with the old senile illegitimate president who doesnt even know where he is?




are they saying sleepy joe rolled mccarthy?

[Extra Stout]

They didn’t want any deal. They wanted the country to default in order to burn down the economy so that Biden would lose in 2024.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

They didn’t want any deal. They wanted the country to default in order to burn down the economy so that Biden would lose in 2024.

wrecking government, then proposing themselves as the party of national salvation is SOP.