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  1. #26
    Believe. spurtech09's Avatar
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    But threes come after confidence is gained which starts inside. You start pounding them inside, Green, Mills and Kawhi and maybe even Pau can start draining them from outside.

  2. #27
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I love the art of finding the open man on the perimeter with continuous ball movement. It's when these guys isolate, fade away, with no follow through, turning around, all teammates standing around watching, with two hands in their face and swish home a three. Then do some handmotion insinuating they knew it was going in all along. Sure, you'll have games where that just so happens to work for you. That's something you thank God for at the end of the shot clock, not something your team lives by. That's where I draw the line on my 3 point love/hate.
    That's how Curry plays and the bulk of this forum semen shielding the out of him a few years ago when I called him out.

  3. #28
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    The NBA has protected shooters (for a good reason) but it has gone to far. You cannot touch a perimeter player, but damn you can bash a interior one. What NBA need to address: Stop this fouling 3 point shooter crap and enforce moving screens. Be far far more stricter on moving on a screen.
    No. The players will adapt to the current rules. Those who do so faster can learn to take advantage of them. It won't always be the Spurs. If the game becomes unwatchable, the market will force a correction.

  4. #29
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-antonio-spurs
    NBA playoffs defense can't stop the rise of the pullup 3...

  5. #30
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    to my understanding rox arent using bigs and going for the mid-range shot as the basis for their philosophy. they either go for layup/dunk or chunk the 3 more times than not. spurs i dont believe ever did this as a basis in their philosophy. rox are more small ball dominant/minded.
    who wouldn't want to take layups and uncontested 3s? if the spurs cant defend their oh-so-simple strategy, then it's their fault

    like i said, they're generating OPEN threes. that's a good strategy

  6. #31
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-antonio-spurs
    NBA playoffs defense can't stop the rise of the pullup 3...
    Nice read. Thanks.

  7. #32
    Believe.
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    who wouldn't want to take layups and uncontested 3s? if the spurs cant defend their oh-so-simple strategy, then it's their fault

    like i said, they're generating OPEN threes. that's a good strategy
    i hear ya. if the spurs can't defend the 3 or crowd the paint thats on them. but spurs have never been one dimensional like the rox. they may be now because their bigs aren't doing bigs things (but thats a different one dimensional than the rox). spurs may have utilized some elements of moreyball in the past to beat a moreyball dominant team but spurs philosophy never has been about that. spurs have generally been about having many dimensions to their game. not gimmick ball. granted if gimmick ball wins gimmick ball wins. props! but spurs havent been about that.

  8. #33
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    No. The players will adapt to the current rules. Those who do so faster can learn to take advantage of them. It won't always be the Spurs. If the game becomes unwatchable, the market will force a correction.
    I get that, but currently everything is stack up against defenses, while offensive players are being protected. You cannot crowed the shooter and must allow him to land. You cannot touch that player driving with your arms and only can body him. The offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt in foul calls, from reach ins, arms flying around, flops, and blocking/charge calls, and now defenders are getting called for fouling the 3pt shooter when it's the offensive screen that causing the contact. To go along with moving screens, 3 secs in the key, travels and carries not being called, it has come to this.

  9. #34
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    The NBA has protected shooters (for a good reason) but it has gone to far. You cannot touch a perimeter player, but damn you can bash a interior one. What NBA need to address: Stop this fouling 3 point shooter crap and enforce moving screens. Be far far more stricter on moving on a screen.
    Hit the nail on the head. For 2 points you have to score while getting bumped. For 3 points you can score without anyone touching you.

    That's why the Spurs team is doomed.

  10. #35
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    PATFO read the league wrong. They showed how to do it when they won the championship. But for some stupid reason decided to go the other way.

    Spurs can be dominant with Leonard at center!

  11. #36
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    Spurs started dat and now we are complaining other teams do the same but at an even higher rate ? smh

  12. #37
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I get that, but currently everything is stack up against defenses, while offensive players are being protected. You cannot crowed the shooter and must allow him to land. You cannot touch that player driving with your arms and only can body him. The offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt in foul calls, from reach ins, arms flying around, flops, and blocking/charge calls, and now defenders are getting called for fouling the 3pt shooter when it's the offensive screen that causing the contact. To go along with moving screens, 3 secs in the key, travels and carries not being called, it has come to this.
    Compare that with all the pushing, shoving and physicality that is allowed on the post up player, including offensive fouls called on him when a 6'2" guy is attempting to guard a 6'11" man with over 50 pounds on him and appears to flop.
    This is the way the league is going. It definitely favors guards/wings and softness.

  13. #38
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Nice read. Thanks.
    no problem, the pullup 3 has become a kind of indefensible shot.

  14. #39
    Believe.
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    moreyball is either at its apex or still has some ceiling left but i dont doubt that like everything else it will run its course. just the nature of things. since its more in the open now we will be seeing more minds/strategists counter it. one rule in "the formula" is that your opponent gets distracted by his own consumption.

    of course rules/calls seem to be a driving force of moreyball (not sure how much). ie pull up 3 foul call and playing hard defense is called more than hard offense and bigs almost being obsolete.

  15. #40
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    op with the goods

  16. #41
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I get that, but currently everything is stack up against defenses, while offensive players are being protected. You cannot crowed the shooter and must allow him to land. You cannot touch that player driving with your arms and only can body him. The offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt in foul calls, from reach ins, arms flying around, flops, and blocking/charge calls, and now defenders are getting called for fouling the 3pt shooter when it's the offensive screen that causing the contact. To go along with moving screens, 3 secs in the key, travels and carries not being called, it has come to this.
    They are paid millions to play a game. They'll figure it out.

  17. #42
    Believe.
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    They are paid millions to play a game. They'll figure it out.
    is the market a part of dictating calls? ie people/viewership wants more fast break and 3 points/quick scores/and a lot of calls go to protect the offensive players more especially beyond the 3?

    in the nfl its a QB dominated league/more quick scores so the calls benefit and protect the offense more/qbs and this leads to more views and interest. but some say its killing the game.

    curious here. trying to figure this out myself. not trying to argue.

  18. #43
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    is the market a part of dictating calls? ie people/viewership wants more fast break and 3 points/quick scores/and a lot of calls go to protect the offensive players more especially beyond the 3?

    in the nfl its a QB dominated league/more quick scores so the calls benefit and protect the offense more/qbs and this leads to more views and interest. but some say its killing the game.

    curious here. trying to figure this out myself. not trying to argue.
    Since it's only entertainment, it's always about the market, but the NBA thinks long term and you don't make sudden rule changes to try to capture a fad market surge. Remember the basketball change? That was a hoot.

    People are sought out and cultivated from damn near birth to do nothing but play basketball for money. Advanced metrics and cameras and analytics everywhere support the drive to capitalize on loopholes in everything before those loopholes are closed. So regardless how the rules change, someone will be figuring out a way to exploit the weakness in human officiating and rules for monetary gain.

    I think any foul beyond the 3pt line should be reviewable if the shot was attempted, and if the offensive player initiated contact, then the foul can be reversed. I think goaltending should be reviewable just like having a toe on the 3pt line. If the ball was goaltended, then review can either negate or add the points without the ref calling it. It can be done during a timeout. It could affect the point after though, since sometimes a missed shot during a shooting foul gets 2 FTs while a goaltended shot would only get one. In those cases the 2nd FT can be erased and the point total increased by 1 (and 1).

  19. #44
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Spurs started dat and now we are complaining other teams do the same but at an even higher rate ? smh
    yeah, its just fans ing about how their team isn't as dominant as they want them to be

  20. #45
    GAME OVER gospursgojas's Avatar
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    Just go out there and chuck as many 3s as you can. Just keep shooting. On defense, just defend your man as best as you can, if they score oh well, just run back and chuck.
    Pretty much COY candidate Mike D'antoni's system ever since he began coaching in the league.

  21. #46
    Believe.
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    Since it's only entertainment, it's always about the market, but the NBA thinks long term and you don't make sudden rule changes to try to capture a fad market surge. Remember the basketball change? That was a hoot.

    People are sought out and cultivated from damn near birth to do nothing but play basketball for money. Advanced metrics and cameras and analytics everywhere support the drive to capitalize on loopholes in everything before those loopholes are closed. So regardless how the rules change, someone will be figuring out a way to exploit the weakness in human officiating and rules for monetary gain.

    I think any foul beyond the 3pt line should be reviewable if the shot was attempted, and if the offensive player initiated contact, then the foul can be reversed. I think goaltending should be reviewable just like having a toe on the 3pt line. If the ball was goaltended, then review can either negate or add the points without the ref calling it. It can be done during a timeout. It could affect the point after though, since sometimes a missed shot during a shooting foul gets 2 FTs while a goaltended shot would only get one. In those cases the 2nd FT can be erased and the point total increased by 1 (and 1).
    thanks for that response! appreciate it. im learning.

    so what makes morreyball a fad for the market? isn't the most efficient shot or basing your shots on analytics an increasing trend since the 1980s rather than a fad? so while its rather one dimensional it's been around and trending. has it not? you could be right that it is a fad. i hope so. its boring. however im not sure it is a fad and so calls are generated to preference it over other strategies because of entertainment purposes. good discussion. i await your next reply as im sure i will learn more about this topic from it.

  22. #47
    Suck One Pop poop's Avatar
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    outside of a couple of harden shots, its not like the rockets are chucking up wild contested 3's. they're generating open looks at will.
    They just set the nba record for 3 point attempts

  23. #48
    Suck One Pop poop's Avatar
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    This small ball crap is easily countered by playing basketball the way it was always played-using size- problem is is virtually no bigs have post up, inside skills anymore to punish a smaller defender. LA just got stopped twice being defended one on one by freakin james harden...

    The 90's bigs would have feasted on this ...can you imagine hakeem or freaking shaq in todays game?? With the small ball and the volume chucking?? They would be putting up 35, 15 and 8 for the season

  24. #49
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    This small ball crap is easily countered by playing basketball the way it was always played-using size- problem is is virtually no bigs have post up, inside skills anymore to punish a smaller defender. LA just got stopped twice being defended one on one by freakin james harden...

    The 90's bigs would have feasted on this ...can you imagine hakeem or freaking shaq in todays game?? With the small ball and the volume chucking?? They would be putting up 35, 15 and 8 for the season
    Pretty much this. I remember even a few years ago against the thunder that Scott Brooks attempted to go small at one point in game 1 of the series and have Durant guard Duncan. Duncan at old age ended up posting him up multiple times and scoring on him. After that happened Brooks never attempted to go small again. It's amazing how today's bigs can't post up undersized players.

  25. #50
    faggy opinion + certainty Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    This small ball crap is easily countered by playing basketball the way it was always played-using size- problem is is virtually no bigs have post up, inside skills anymore to punish a smaller defender. LA just got stopped twice being defended one on one by freakin james harden...

    The 90's bigs would have feasted on this ...can you imagine hakeem or freaking shaq in todays game?? With the small ball and the volume chucking?? They would be putting up 35, 15 and 8 for the season
    yep, that's the real problem here. Instead of whining about how the league is somehow ruined, the big men need to man up and punish the other team for basically playing five three point shooters.

    ROFL @ playing Ryan Anderson at the five. That nonsense wouldn't have worked against prime Duncan, Shaq, KG, Hakeem, etc

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