Page 55 of 119 FirstFirst ... 54551525354555657585965105 ... LastLast
Results 1,351 to 1,375 of 2970
  1. #1351
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
    My Team
    Sacramento Kings
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    20,548
    So, wrong bout punting to Barr, wrong bout predicate crime for obstruction, and wrong bout TOTAL EXONERATION

    Tough day for team trump
    whatever helps you sleep at night

    The only people crying today are still with her

  2. #1352
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
    My Team
    Sacramento Kings
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    20,548
    it is obstruction but mueller lays out the exact OPPOSITE

    of what Baghdad Barr falsely asserted


    that because of DOJ policy he will not make a criminal determination on the criminal in chief

    and even though there is evidence

    since he is forbidden to make that call - he wont pick a side of the equation

    then he lays out why Congress is the sole authority in this call

    he further states that Baghdad Barrs premise that a prez cannot commit a crime and cannot be held to account because he could not run the country

    is not accurate when a prez corruptly uses his exec power

    you know - just like i said a month ago
    you were wrong a month ago and you are still wrong today


  3. #1353
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    9,834
    take it up with Rosenstein

    "In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding."
    but the COURT

    will make that call

    this is barr & rosensteins treason play

    the court will rule on whether those two comrades-

    or congress

    makes that call

  4. #1354
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Post Count
    41,752
    Come on-- what other reason would there be to fire Mueller other than obstructing justice?

  5. #1355
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    95,840
    take it up with Rosenstein

    "In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding."

  6. #1356
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    9,834
    Nope - not what I said or what I have been saying;

    I would trust Muellers report - when I see Muellers report.

    Mueller could have said something way different than what Barr spun.

    I said Barr - and Trump - are in a cover up.

    Barr could have choked the life out of Muellers investigation and pressured Mueller to wrap up early.

    Many things are fishy.

    Release the full Mueller report.
    Have Mueller testify under oath. (also Rosenstein) -

    I don't give a about Barr testifying because he will just lie or evade answering. He already said that even if he was advised to recuse - he would not.

    You sound like FOX news - distorting the words I wrote.

    Mueller supposedly decided not to make a conclusion. (on Obstruction)
    (WHY? - Did Barr tell him to leave it open? Did Mueller leave it open - so that Congress could make the call?
    Did Barr give Mueller a strict set of rules to keep Mueller from making a conclusion? Did Barr misrepresent Muellers report?)
    yup

  7. #1357
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,992
    take it up with Rosenstein

    "In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding."
    Intent is an element; a predicate offense is not. So, no.

  8. #1358
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,992
    whatever helps you sleep at night

    The only people crying today are still with her
    T
    O
    T
    A
    L

    E
    X
    O
    N
    E
    R
    A
    T
    I
    O
    N

  9. #1359
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    41,654
    Come on-- what other reason would there be to fire Mueller other than obstructing justice?
    He was fired?

  10. #1360
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
    My Team
    Sacramento Kings
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    20,548
    vy65 and spurraider21 --- thoughts on this thread from another lawyer that trying obstruction under 1512 as Mueller attempted is legally dubious





















    Pretty tough to argue against the above.

  11. #1361
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Post Count
    41,752

  12. #1362
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    9,834
    I disagree -somewhat- maybe because I am still naive....

    but -

    I predict that Barr will fight this for as long as Trump is in office...if Trump steals another election he will bury it deeper - if Trump is ousted - then the report will leak eventually - but it will be too late.

    I also cannot blame Mueller - yet.
    We have no idea - but my best guess is along these lines;

    When Barr weaseled his way into the AG job - he immediately cut Mueller's balls off.
    He "guided" the investigation in a way that turned it into a "general synopsis" of what Russia did - but made sure to restrict Mueller from exposing anything on Trump for "executive privilege reasons"

    Barr also caused Mueller to prematurely end the investigation -
    Mueller was no way near finished but Barr pressured Mueller to conclude and turn in his report
    'WITHOUT CONCLUSIONS" -

    or

    at least - pointed out the DOJ "POLICIES" to Mueller so that Mueller had no choice but to refrain from any "decisions"

    Still - there were hundreds of witness interviews that - in years from now - the world will see just how guilty Trump is -and there is more conspiracy with Russia - that we all saw with our own eyes - and the counter-intel part of it will show that Trump has an "allegiance" driven by present and future monetary rewards - to Russia and Putin-

    -but it will be too late by the time we get to see this evidence.

    Mueller needs to testify - but they can't talk to him until they see the full unredacted report -

    and Barr will make sure that does not happen.

    I did call it - actually - on Barr - I knew it when I saw his memo and his hiring and his confirmation.

    It is pretty plain to see that he did his job - cover up the criminal presidents crimes.

    i stand by what i said a month ago

  13. #1363
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
    My Team
    Sacramento Kings
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    20,548
    i stand by what i said a month ago
    PM yourself, no one here gives a .

  14. #1364
    Rosebud CitizenDwayne's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Post Count
    2,772
    Come on-- what other reason would there be to fire Mueller other than obstructing justice?
    Yeah that’s where I’m confused

  15. #1365
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Post Count
    41,752
    vy65 and spurraider21 --- thoughts on this thread from another lawyer that trying obstruction under 1512 as Mueller attempted is legally dubious





















    Pretty tough to argue against the above.
    So the evidence supporting Barr's decision is....


    Barr's memo.

  16. #1366
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    9,834
    PM yourself, no one here gives a .
    only you are to blame for being gullible

    please drink the poison upon trumps order and

    MAGA!!!


    crofl

  17. #1367
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    95,840
    Can someone explain to me how the McGahn situation is not obvious obstruction? Not looking for trolling bull , legitimately curious.
    Come on-- what other reason would there be to fire Mueller other than obstructing justice?
    im not going to pretend to have read through the full report. have read mostly the executive summaries and select portions. the part about mcgahn in the obstruction report reads almost comically tbh... its hard to explain that away.

    my favorite part, just for comedic purposes:

    "The President also asked McGahn in the meeting why he had told Special COunsel's Office investigators that the President had told him to have the Special Counsel removed. McGahn responded that he had to and that his conversations with the President were not protected by attorney-client privilege. The President then asked, 'What about these notes? Why do you take notes? Lawyers don't take notes. I never had a lawyer who took notes.' McGan responded that he keeps notes because he is a 'real lawyer' and explained that notes create a record and are not a bad thing. The President said, 'I've had a lot of great lawyers, like Roy Cohn. He did not take notes.'"


  18. #1368
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,107
    It's been a while since I read 1984 but as I recall Orwell may have underestimated the willingness and enthusiasm with which the plebs would participate in the overt dishonesty.
    whatever helps you sleep at night

    The only people crying today are still with her
    Exhibit A right here.

  19. #1369
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    95,840
    the most interesting part of this, legally speaking, is the long discussion that begins on page 159 of vol 2, or page 371 of the PDF... talking about whether or not a president CAN commit obstruction.

    "But counsel has made a categorical argument that 'the President's exercise of his cons utional authority here to terminate an FBI Director and to close investigations cannot cons utionally cons ute obstruction of justice.'

    In analyzing counsel's statutory arguments, we concluded that the President's proposed interpretation of Section 1512(c)(2) is contrary to the litigating position of the Department of Justice and is not supported by principles of statutory construction.

    As for the cons utional arguments, we recognized that the Department of Justice and the courts have not definitively resolved these cons utional issues. We therefore analyzed the President's position through the framework of Supreme Court precedent addressing the separation of powers. Under that framework, we concluded, Article II of the Cons ution does not categorically and permanently immunize the President from potential liability for the conduct that was investigated. Rather, our analysis led us to conclude that the obstruction-of-justice statues can validly prohibit a President's corrupt efforts to use his official powers to curtail, end, or interfere with an investigation."

    then goes on to explain each of those conclusions in great detail
    Last edited by spurraider21; 04-18-2019 at 03:17 PM.

  20. #1370
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    95,840
    oddly enough, the obstruction section reads quite a bit like comey's presser on hillary's emails...

    here's a list of all the things he did, but ultimately we couldn't prove intent (in part because he was not found to have committed the underlying crime). they also acknowledged early on that they agreed that they can't indict a sitting president.
    Last edited by spurraider21; 04-18-2019 at 01:25 PM.

  21. #1371
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,992
    Pretty tough to argue against the above.
    Do you know what a circuit split is?

  22. #1372
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    9,834
    oddly enough, the obstruction section reads quite a bit like comey's presser on hillary's emails...

    here's a list of all the things he did, but ultimately we couldn't prove intent (in part because he was not found to have committed the underlying crime).
    i dont believe mueller landed there

    barr did - not mueller

    mueller landed on congress being the deciding authority

  23. #1373
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,992
    And for the record, we went from "No Collusion, No Obstruction," to a Twitter memo on what an official proceeding is under one of several statutes cited in the Report.

  24. #1374
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,992
    Rather than a coniption fit of tweets, here's what substantive legal analysis looks like:

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/does-fbi...es-closer-look

  25. #1375
    I needs six for my fix. UnWantedTheory's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    2,095
    "Trump may have been saved from an obstruction of justice charge by his own aides’ refusal to follow his orders. “The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surround the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests,” Mueller wrote."

    So he tried to obstruct justice, but no one would help him. Lmao.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •