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  1. #76
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    No, I'm not you, Stat .... some more true facts:

    If you took Shaq off the Lakers during their le runs, the Lakers wouldn’t be guaranteed to make the playoffs. When O’Neal was injured during his three peat, the Lakers had a regular-season record of 12-11 (.5217%).

    When Kobe was injured, the Lakers regular season record was 25-7 (.78%). Interestingly, the Lakers’ entire regular-season record during their three-peats was 181-65 (.735%), which is a lower record than when Kobe wasn’t playing. The Lakers therefore actually had a better record when Kobe wasn’t playing.
    He doesn't even deserve to be called a stat , since he uses the most antiquated metrics (raw per game stats) and focuses only on PPG.

  2. #77
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
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    Cmon Mid you need to look at their prime stats

    Kobe 2001-2010 Playoffs:
    28.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, .452 FG%, .341 3P%, .825 FT%, .486 eFG%, .548 TS%

    Kobe led the playoffs in 4th quarter scoring 4 times ('01-'03, '08), Dirk 1 time ('11), Duncan 0 so please...

  3. #78
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
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    Playoffs stats during prime:

    Kobe '01-'10: 29/6/5/2/1 on 45/34/83 (42 mpg)
    Tim '99-'08: 24/13/4/1/3 on 50/15/69 (40 mpg)
    Dirk '02-'11: 26/11/3/1/1 on 47/40/89 (41 mpg)

    Real stats my friend.

  4. #79
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    I can't remember Rapist ever doing what Dirk did in 2011. that was legendary, putting the team on his back etc....
    Love Dirk, but slow down. He shot 41% in the Finals.

  5. #80
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    Playoffs stats during prime:

    Kobe '01-'10: 29/6/5/2/1 on 45/34/83 (42 mpg)
    Tim '99-'08: 24/13/4/1/3 on 50/15/69 (40 mpg)
    Dirk '02-'11: 26/11/3/1/1 on 47/40/89 (41 mpg)

    Real stats my friend.
    Correct. Prime numbers is how you should look at it.

  6. #81
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    the issue with this is its moronic to quantify defensive contributions as steals and blocks, and Tim Duncan being the anchor to the best defensive team of his era isn't measured by his blocks/steals per game.

  7. #82
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    Deuce still basing his arguments off PPG and TS%.

    Duncan stomps Kirby in pretty much every known traditional and advanced stat known to man except PPG and assists. Duncan is in another world defensively over his career compared to Kobe. Duncan is the better Finals performer. Better clutch performer.

    There's no argument anymore, not that there ever was.

    Kobe vs. Dirk is a better comparison, and I'm not entirely convinced Kobe had the better individual career.

    Playoffs:

    Kobe: 25.6ppg, 5.1.rpg, 4.7apg, 1.4stl, 0.7blk, .448FG, .541TS, 22.4PER


    Dirk: 25.6ppg, 10.1rpg, 2.5apg, 1.1stl, 0.9blk, .461FG, .579TS, 24.2PER


    Dirk never played with a dominant big, much less a top 10 player of all-time. Furthermore, Dirk turned around one of the worst franchises in the NBA, leading them to their first championship, which is more impressive than crying yourself onto the Lakers, who were already stacked when Kobe was drafted.

    We know Dirk is probably the best closer post-Jordan (insert your Chris Paul joke at my expense here).

    I can't find any reason to put Kobe above Dirk aside from muh rings and muh scoring.

  8. #83
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Cmon Mid you need to look at their prime stats

    Kobe 2001-2010 Playoffs:
    28.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, .452 FG%, .341 3P%, .825 FT%, .486 eFG%, .548 TS%

    Kobe led the playoffs in 4th quarter scoring 4 times ('01-'03, '08), Dirk 1 time ('11), Duncan 0 so please...
    Not all 4th quarters are created equal, which is why the clutch stat exists. Not to mention the intentional fouling that happens late in the game, which a team will do in the playoffs even where there's no chance of winning.

    And Kobe shoots worse than Duncan and Dirk in crunch time.

  9. #84
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Playoffs stats during prime:

    Kobe '01-'10: 29/6/5/2/1 on 45/34/83 (42 mpg)
    Tim '99-'08: 24/13/4/1/3 on 50/15/69 (40 mpg)
    Dirk '02-'11: 26/11/3/1/1 on 47/40/89 (41 mpg)

    Real stats my friend.
    Now Deuce is arbitrarily deciding what "prime" is.

    Kobe looked prime to me in '11. He just sucked in the playoffs. Convenient of you to leave that year out.

    A better way to do it is by starter minutes, which Kobe has played since '99.

    That said, both Dirk and Duncan have better prime stats anyhow. But yeah, I know, PPG!

  10. #85
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    kobe wasn't prime in 2011 unless you are referring to offensive prime only, in which case, sure.

  11. #86
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    kobe wasn't prime in 2011 unless you are referring to offensive prime only, in which case, sure.
    Kobe hasn't been in his defensive prime since about '02. It's a tragedy he has as many All NBA Defensive 1st Teams as he does.

    Is the trend clear? There have been 3 players who’ve dominated the All-Defensive team for the past decade: Bryant, Garnett, and Tim Duncan. Over any extended period, Garnett dominates the list, Duncan is near the top of the list, and Bryant is pretty much at the bottom.

    Being at the bottom is visually striking, but it’s actually not that damning in and of itself. If my knock on Kobe was that he was only the 20th best defender in the league on average, this would not be that horrendous of a knock. After all, big men dominate these kind of lists, maybe he’s still won of the top 5 or so perimeter defenders in the game, no?

    No. The more damning thing is that every metric I’ve broken down here has Kobe’s defensive impact as utterly average. -0.8, -0.6, 0.1, 0.1, these are not numbers of someone who is consistently a game changer on defense. The other guys given even half the love Kobe’s gotten over the year, pretty consistently do turn up on these metric doing quite well.

    I’ll point out also: it’s not that +/- considers Kobe vastly overrated across the board. If I were to post the analogous charts for Kobe on offense, he’d typically look like a superstar. Both Ilardi & Engelmann’s 6 year metrics rank Kobe as a top 3 offensive player in the game.

    This statistic isn’t saying Kobe is extremely overrated in all parts of his game, only his defense shows such shockingly weak values.
    http://asubs uteforwar.wordpress.c...er-imaginable/

  12. #87
    Wrecks and Effects RsxPiimp's Avatar
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    dirk is a bad ass mother er but he's not on kobe's league . duncan i feel is much more valuable than both however.

  13. #88
    808s & Heartbreak Kool Bob Love's Avatar
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  14. #89
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    I came back and took it like a trooper.

    & I cited ya's, sang your praises day & nite for a solid fortnight. What thanks did I get? Deeps knelt down behind me & Jeebs push me ass over teacup.

  15. #90
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    I came back and took it like a trooper.
    Nuh uh. You went back on your "win the last game you play" credo and started trying to qualify Duncan: 5. You've still yet to take it.

  16. #91
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Nuh uh. You went back on your "win the last game you play" credo and started trying to qualify Duncan: 5. You've still yet to take it.
    No. You're wrong. I came back took it like a trooper and sang your praises. You guys rang and I was here standing tall before the man.

  17. #92
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    No. You're wrong. I came back took it like a trooper and sang your praises. You guys rang and I was here standing tall before the man.
    Nuh uh. Parroting "The Bag stays in Texas" is not taking it, it's making excuses. Act like somebody!

  18. #93
    Believe. elmanutres's Avatar
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    im ok with thread using the bag excuse. because i know when kobe comes to town he's gonna pick it up and take it home

  19. #94
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Nuh uh. Parroting "The Bag stays in Texas" is not taking it, it's making excuses. Act like somebody!
    The Bag stays in Texas.

  20. #95
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    The Bag stays in Texas.
    That is so lame. The stays in Texas.

  21. #96
    808s & Heartbreak Kool Bob Love's Avatar
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    The Bag stays in Texas.
    So damn bitter.

  22. #97
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    T-Mac was the real MVP in 2003 (32/7/5 on 46/39/79)
    Manu was the real Finals MVP in 2005

    Based on deserving MVPs

    Regular season
    Kobe - 2 (06 should have been his, 07 is arguable)
    Duncan - 1

    Finals
    Kobe - 2
    Duncan - 2

    How about you compare each of their stats in the playoffs and Finals for each championship won and compare their best regular seasons. Kobe comes out on top.
    where's this got been?

  23. #98
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    That is so lame. The stays in Texas.
    If it were so lame you wouldn't mention it.

    You're not big enough to handle The Bag, X7, it handles you.

    Me? I'm big enough to handle 5. I've proven that time & again since you rang.

  24. #99
    TD since 97 ezau's Avatar
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    If it were so lame you wouldn't mention it.

    You're not big enough to handle The Bag, X7, it handles you.

    Me? I'm big enough to handle 5. I've proven that time & again since you rang.
    Just a reminder, Duncan rang last June 15, 2014 not Kobe. Let us proceed

  25. #100
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    No. You knew the protocol at 5-4. I deceived no man. I was up front and I spoke plain English.

    5 belongs to you. And so does The Bag.

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