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  1. #76
    O & 44!!! Now, go back &
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  2. #77
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    http://www.breakingglobalnews.com/nb...decade/1222043

    Fan vote but Charles said then:

    Charles Barkley was outspoken in his defence of O’Neal – ‘That just really shows you fans don’t know anything’.

    Kenny Smith added ‘From the middle of the decade to the end’ Kobe probably was the best player, but he agreed with Barkley that Shaq was the player of the decade.

    For me it is either Shaq and/or Duncan based on the fact they were the alpha dogs on the most championship teams but to each his own. TNT in its popularity contest picked Kobe as did the Sporting News.

    http://ddobbsbasketball.com/2009/12/...00-09s-top-10/

    Another view that put Duncan > Kobe > Shaq.
    Last edited by Rummpd; 01-26-2011 at 05:22 PM.

  3. #78
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
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    Shaq won les with 2 teams even though Wade was the key factor he has a legit claim as well IMO. He still averaged 19 and 9 on the le team so he had 3 les as the primary man and 1 as the 2nd. Kobe had 3 les as 2nd, 1-2 as first. Duncan had either 3-4 as the primary man depending on how you count the decade. Duncan and Shaq had three finals MVPs and Duncan also had two MVPs with Shaq winning in 99-00 and Bryant in 07-8

    http://www.nba.com/history/awards_mvp.html


    http://www.nba.com/history/finalsmvps.html

    (Notice how the site defends Kobe's selection for the finals MVP without mentioning he shot 6 for 24 - Shaq's 2002 performance was unreal as was Duncan's 2003 performance, especially his near quadruple double in the clincher.)


    Honestly even Bryant has a case but his is by far the weakest as I do not believe either a Shaq led or Duncan led team or even any team they have been on has missed the playoffs. However from 00-01 -09-10 Bryant did to be fair have more first team NBA selections but also one 2nd and one 3rd team.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA...389_to_present

    Bryant 8/1/1 Shaq 6/0/1 Duncan 6/3/1

    However if you chose to start the decade with 99-00 then Duncan and Shaq each pick up one more first place selection and Kobe was not selected and Kobe drops back into a tie with them with 7 first place votes for that distinctioni.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA...389_to_present


    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...ew-decade.html

    Bean has a case when it comes to Finals MVPs as well. We all know in that 2001 season, the Sixers would have been fodder for either the Spurs or the Lakers. The NBA Finals weren't the Lakers and Sixers, it was the Lakers vs. the Spurs. That was the true NBA Finals. Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles could see that and one of them is dead.

    Game 1 @ San Antone:
    Shaquille O'Neal - 28 points (11-22), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks
    Bean Bryant - 45 points (19-35), 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block


    Game 2 @ San Antone:
    Shaquille O'Neal - 19 points (8-21), 14 rebounds, 4 assists, no steals, 1 block
    Bean Bryant - 28 points (11-24), 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, 1 block


    Game 3 @ Los Angeles:
    Shaquille O'Neal - 35 points (16-23), 17 rebounds, 3 assists, no steals, no blocks
    Bean Bryant - 36 points (14-27), 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 steal, no blocks


    Game 4 @ Los Angeles:
    Shaquille O'Neal - 26 points (11-19), 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 blocks
    Bean Bryant - 24 points (10-19), 2 rebounds, 11 assists, 2 steals, 1 block


    Averages:
    Shaquille O'Neal - 27 points (48-85, 56.4%), 13 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 0.75 steals, 1.25 blocks

    Bean Bryant - 33.25 points (54-105, 51.4%), 7 rebounds, 7 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.75 blocks

    Bean clearly was the best player on the floor during that series between the four star players (Bryant, Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal).
    Last edited by Ashy Larry; 01-26-2011 at 05:50 PM.

  4. #79
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
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    http://www.breakingglobalnews.com/nb...decade/1222043

    Fan vote but Charles said then:

    Charles Barkley was outspoken in his defence of O’Neal – ‘That just really shows you fans don’t know anything’.

    Kenny Smith added ‘From the middle of the decade to the end’ Kobe probably was the best player, but he agreed with Barkley that Shaq was the player of the decade.

    For me it is either Shaq and/or Duncan based on the fact they were the alpha dogs on the most championship teams but to each his own. TNT in its popularity contest picked Kobe as did the Sporting News.

    http://ddobbsbasketball.com/2009/12/...00-09s-top-10/

    Another view that put Duncan > Kobe > Shaq.

    Most polls are popularity contests. LeBron wouldn't have been on that list if it wasn't one. It's really a tough call. I have no problem with either of the three.

  5. #80
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    That is so true and consistent with SI as Duncan as player of the decade ( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...hts/index.html )- revisionists of NBA history talk about Kobe dominating the decade when he was:

    1) not considered even the best player on his team for 3-4 years and at only widely regarded as the best player in the league less than 1/3 of the decade (at best).
    2) had his team miss the playoffs without Shaq
    3) did not return his team to the finals sans one of the most nebulous trades in NBA history with Gasol/Odom/Bynum all coming on strong.
    4) career and playoff records both trail on percentage basis Duncan's.
    5) never was considered a player who made others better until late in his career and even that is somewhat debatable vs. Duncan's wide acclaim in that regard.

    It is either Shaq or Duncan (the consensus best players on 6 of the decades le teams) - Bryant does not deserve serious consideration.

    SI made the right call:

    PLAYER OF THE DECADE: Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
    The greatest power forward in NBA history, Duncan was the reason San Antonio became the only team to make the playoffs every year of the decade. He was the most valuable team player of his era, an active defender who chased pick-and-rolls out to the three-point line and yet hustled back to protect the rim and control the boards. Offensively, the Spurs played through him as a passer in the post, and his dependable mid-range jumper off the backboard will be part of his highlight reel when he checks into Springfield.
    For some reason when I read that I hear Hubie Brown saying it.

  6. #81
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    LOL of course you can make an argument for any of the 3 but shaq would be the one taken out if you were gonna make a credible argument. Kobe won les in the Pippen/McHale/Worthy role and in the MJ/Duncan/Shaq role. Yes he had help all champions do. His career arc is most like Magic's TBH ...

    For the first few les even though Magic was the catalyst Kareem was the star (scoring/rebounding/clutch) for the Lakers ... (much like shaq minus the clutch)

    then starting in '85 but ESPECIALLY by the back to back les, Magic's role shifted and he was the Alpha male of those teams. Despite this Magic was still named the player of the decade by Sporting News etc. Factoring ALL of his rings ...

    The last decade was not dominated by one team so I can see why votes are split. Shaq was the most dominating early duncan in the middle. But there was only player winning les to start and close the decade. That is why Kobe is the choice. But I respect the duncan argument not shaq he is third ...

    if decade ended in 2006 it would of been shaq first, Tim 2nd and kobe Third ...
    All good points but you have to remember that Shaq won a le with Miami in 2006, near the middle of the decade. With Tim's latest in 2007, Shaq should be right there in the talk.

  7. #82
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    S.I. had their vote: Duncan
    Snews: Kobe

    Besides TNT analysts who chose Shaq?
    I didn't, but those who recall Shaq's early years in LA and late years in Orlando recall a frightening beast that no one had an answer for. Actually, he became that under Phil. He was more timid in Orlando. I think Phil showed him just how unstoppable he really was. If Shaq shoots 70% from the line, he gets 5 rings in a row easily.

  8. #83
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
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    I didn't, but those who recall Shaq's early years in LA and late years in Orlando recall a frightening beast that no one had an answer for. Actually, he became that under Phil. He was more timid in Orlando. I think Phil showed him just how unstoppable he really was. If Shaq shoots 70% from the line, he gets 5 rings in a row easily.

    I've always said that if you took Shaquille O'Neal and gave him the work ethic of Bean Bryant or Michael Jordan, you'd have the world's greatest basketball player. When Rick Barry suggested that he should "try" underhanded free throws because those darts he was throwing at the rim were brutal, he said he'd rather shoot 50% than look stupid. Just imagine if he's knocking down free throws underhanded at a 70% clip. The league would have been utterly destroyed........

  9. #84
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I've always said that if you took Shaquille O'Neal and gave him the work ethic of Bean Bryant or Michael Jordan, you'd have the world's greatest basketball player. When Rick Barry suggested that he should "try" underhanded free throws because those darts he was throwing at the rim were brutal, he said he'd rather shoot 50% than look stupid. Just imagine if he's knocking down free throws underhanded at a 70% clip. The league would have been utterly destroyed........
    Without a doubt, he decimates the league. He gets 50 a game easy and rules have to be changed from 3 to 2 seconds in the paint.

  10. #85
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    Who cares?..

    Quoting NBA players and NBA people as an argument is stupid, they say ridiculous and inaccurate all the time..I can find at least a 100 stupid quotes from NBA people about an NBA-related subject..there was a top 50 players list that was released last year, it was made by polling NBA people, and it was probably the worst list I've ever seen..

    Form your own arguments..quoting others is very telling, in regards to a person's basketball knowledge IMO..

  11. #86
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    Who cares?..

    Quoting NBA players and NBA people as an argument is stupid, they say ridiculous and inaccurate all the time..I can find at least a 100 stupid quotes from NBA people about an NBA-related subject..there was a top 50 players list that was released last year, it was made by polling NBA people, and it was probably the worst list I've ever seen..

    Form your own arguments..quoting others is very telling, in regards to a person's basketball knowledge IMO..

    hey I know where you can get a Lebron skinny dipping tattoo for a cool $20

  12. #87
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    hey I know where you can get a Lebron skinny dipping tattoo for a cool $20
    Adults don't do lick on stick on.

  13. #88
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    Adults don't do lick on stick on.

    You love you some Koolaid don't ya.... this is a classic example...you claim you can't avoid me because I start too many threads yet you comment on every single post...literally like a dog in heat...I ain't mad at cha...keep riding my nuts ....It's Your World...All Day...

  14. #89
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    You love you some Koolaid don't ya.... this is a classic example...you claim you can't avoid me because I start too many threads yet you comment on every single post...literally like a dog in heat...I ain't mad at cha...keep riding my nuts ....It's Your World...All Day...
    It's my thread, .



    You sound intimidated. You trying to shake me?

  15. #90
    Veteran cobbler's Avatar
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    Who cares?..

    Quoting NBA players and NBA people as an argument is stupid, they say ridiculous and inaccurate all the time..I can find at least a 100 stupid quotes from NBA people about an NBA-related subject..there was a top 50 players list that was released last year, it was made by polling NBA people, and it was probably the worst list I've ever seen..

    Form your own arguments..quoting others is very telling, in regards to a person's basketball knowledge IMO..
    says Hollinger's puppet!

  16. #91
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    I've always said that if you took Shaquille O'Neal and gave him the work ethic of Bean Bryant or Michael Jordan, you'd have the world's greatest basketball player. When Rick Barry suggested that he should "try" underhanded free throws because those darts he was throwing at the rim were brutal, he said he'd rather shoot 50% than look stupid. Just imagine if he's knocking down free throws underhanded at a 70% clip. The league would have been utterly destroyed........
    Ashy: Absolutely always my problem with Shaq besides Lebron to me, he had the best chance of surpassing MJ. IMHO he will be judged after Kobe and Duncan.

    DMC: Miami he was key but he was far from the best player ...especially in the Finals where he used to DOMINATEDfor the Lakers. He played so bad he refused to speak to the media (after Game 2 IIRC) when he was outplayed by "Erica Dampier". Regular season he was key and im not taking away his ring. But everyone says he (and Duncan) has 4 rings on here ...but Kobe only 2 .. that is being hypocritical Wade won that le as the alpha dog ...

  17. #92
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Ashy: Absolutely always my problem with Shaq besides Lebron to me, he had the best chance of surpassing MJ. IMHO he will be judged after Kobe and Duncan.

    DMC: Miami he was key but he was far from the best player ...especially in the Finals where he used to DOMINATEDfor the Lakers. He played so bad he refused to speak to the media (after Game 2 IIRC) when he was outplayed by "Erica Dampier". Regular season he was key and im not taking away his ring. But everyone says he (and Duncan) has 4 rings on here ...but Kobe only 2 .. that is being hypocritical Wade won that le as the alpha dog ...
    Sure, on here, but we are talking about the TNT guys and how they voted and why. I would put Shaq and Duncan on top, either one could change the team instantly. Kobe was up there too, but he didn't start doing well again (team wise) until the Lakers acquired Gasol. That shines at least some of the light on Gasol. Duncan doesn't have anyone else who showed up to help him. He was who he was for all those years, and sure Manu and Tony were huge, but a great big man can make those around him much better.

    The point is that Shaq has 3 les as alpha dog, and Kobe only 2, and even in those it's questionable. In fact, Kobe probably hurt his team in the Shaq years by being selfish "gotta feed the big dog" which is evident by the shooting percentages and shots taken.

    Just saying, Kobe one on one, no one touched him in 10 years, but as far as being the player of the decade, Shaq or Tim.

    You have to deduct for missing playoffs, and give credit for never missing playoffs.

  18. #93
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    I rarely quote Hollinger..

    You win HO.... Congrats on being the class act you are.


    It's been fun guys.... Enjoyed the bantar with one and all and even you Ho . But thats a line that should never have been crossed.

    I'm outta here. Good luck to all your teams in the future and go Lakers!
    hypocrite..

  19. #94
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    Sure, on here, but we are talking about the TNT guys and how they voted and why. I would put Shaq and Duncan on top, either one could change the team instantly. Kobe was up there too, but he didn't start doing well again (team wise) until the Lakers acquired Gasol. That shines at least some of the light on Gasol. Duncan doesn't have anyone else who showed up to help him. He was who he was for all those years, and sure Manu and Tony were huge, but a great big man can make those around him much better.

    The point is that Shaq has 3 les as alpha dog, and Kobe only 2, and even in those it's questionable. In fact, Kobe probably hurt his team in the Shaq years by being selfish "gotta feed the big dog" which is evident by the shooting percentages and shots taken.

    Just saying, Kobe one on one, no one touched him in 10 years, but as far as being the player of the decade, Shaq or Tim.

    You have to deduct for missing playoffs, and give credit for never missing playoffs.
    Ok but be consistent Shaq missed the playoffs ...and was even more to blame for breaking up the Lakers ... I know i was in L.A. But what does that have ANYTHING to do with being a player of the decade ... who broke up the team?

    Like i said Shaq's peak was amazing but if we talking the whole decade Shaq is eliminated for how he declined the last 3 years of the decade.

    Kobe was winning les as a second banana in the beginning of the decade and as alpha to close it ...Shaq has not been le relevant in the last 3 or 4 years of the decade despite playing with: Wade and Nash ..he couldnt win with Lebron either or Penny for that matter (outside the decade).

    Plus Shaq has been swept out of the playoffs even more than Pau ...
    I can only recall Duncan being swept twice ...And Kobe only when he was playing with Shaq ...

    You guys do realize what player of the decade means ...right?

    If it was outstanding player of the decade or most dominant ...it's shaq. His MVP year and Finals run ranks with the alltime greats and is better than any one season Kobe has ever had. No doubt about it.

  20. #95
    Veteran cobbler's Avatar
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    Kobe was up there too, but he didn't start doing well again (team wise) until the Lakers acquired Gasol. That shines at least some of the light on Gasol. Duncan doesn't have anyone else who showed up to help him. He was who he was for all those years, and sure Manu and Tony were huge, but a great big man can make those around him much better.
    Except for the small issue that the Lakers were playing leapfrog with the Suns for 1st in the West and only followed the Celts overall at the time of the Gasol trade. And of course some light shines on Gasol. Show me a championship won without support across the team. Duncan doesn't have anyone else who showed up to help him? Really? Didn't TP win a finals MVP you all hold so sacred?

    The point is that Shaq has 3 les as alpha dog, and Kobe only 2, and even in those it's questionable. In fact, Kobe probably hurt his team in the Shaq years by being selfish "gotta feed the big dog" which is evident by the shooting percentages and shots taken. .
    The whole alpha dog argument is a creation of the media and Jordan knobslobbers. The Lakers don't win es without either Shaq or Kobe and QUITE A FEW others. That Kobe deffered to an overpowering Shaq diminishes his les in no way. We never hear how Kareem had only 2 les because he deffered to Magic do we?

    When it is all said and done.... and the boys are bellying up to the bar in the backrooms of the NBA hall of fame inductions... it's gonna be... "I got so many, how many did you end up with?" You wont be hearing any "well I was the alpha dog 2 more years than you so that one doesnt count" BS.

    You have to deduct for missing playoffs, and give credit for never missing playoffs.
    Then you also must give points for defending your championship and deduct double for going out on a skunk by of all teams... the Suns

  21. #96
    Veteran cobbler's Avatar
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    I rarely quote Hollinger..



    hypocrite..
    You are the stat boy galore... you use Hollingers numbers almost as much as you post about the Lakers. It's ok. No need to get defensive.

  22. #97
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Wow, right on cue Cobbler responding to HH

    Little fan boy! How cute

  23. #98
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    Cobbler..

    I don't really use Hollinger stats, I use more advanced stats..

    That doesn't change the fact that you're clearly a hypocrite..

  24. #99
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Except for the small issue that the Lakers were playing leapfrog with the Suns for 1st in the West and only followed the Celts overall at the time of the Gasol trade. And of course some light shines on Gasol. Show me a championship won without support across the team. Duncan doesn't have anyone else who showed up to help him? Really? Didn't TP win a finals MVP you all hold so sacred?
    TP is pretty good. Shows how unselfish Duncan is. David Robinson was also unselfish.

    I addressed your points already, and if the Lakers were doing so well, why did Kobe threaten to quit?
    The whole alpha dog argument is a creation of the media and Jordan knobslobbers. The Lakers don't win es without either Shaq or Kobe and QUITE A FEW others. That Kobe deffered to an overpowering Shaq diminishes his les in no way. We never hear how Kareem had only 2 les because he deffered to Magic do we?
    Really? It just seems like a sore spot for Kobe knobslobbers. There's a reason an individual is considered the best player (singular) of the decade, and it's all about being the leader. I've never seen a role player or 2nd fiddle get any kind of award like that. Certainly no domestiques from Lance Armstrong's team won sportsman of the year.
    When it is all said and done.... and the boys are bellying up to the bar in the backrooms of the NBA hall of fame inductions... it's gonna be... "I got so many, how many did you end up with?" You wont be hearing any "well I was the alpha dog 2 more years than you so that one doesnt count" BS.
    No, anyone who didn't just pop their head out of the uterus would realize that the "boys" all know each other well enough to understand all that already. Tim will be the greatest PF ever until someone plays 15 years and outshines him. His rings validate his effort, but then there are many players who do not have rings who are right there in the mix with the greats. No one is going to be asking anyone else in the HOF bar "how many you got?". If they did, Horry would be ahead of Michael. We both know that's not the case now don't we? Alpha males RULE!
    Then you also must give points for defending your championship and deduct double for going out on a skunk by of all teams... the Suns
    The whole "defend the championship" thing is bull . Do the Lakers lose the previous championship if they don't defend? No. It's not boxing. You aren't stripped of the crown. You are the champ for that year, and then you have to do it again.

    Don't follow the media hype. Getting two in a row is cool, but one isn't in defense of the other. If anything, a team should win two in a row or more if they are that much stronger (or put together using more funds) than the other teams. The fact that SA snuck 4 wins in while the Lakers were busy hating each other is testament to the management in SA, because opportunity is hard to come by, and the rest of the league let it slide right by (except Detroit and Miami of course).

  25. #100
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I still say Tim/Shaq over Kobe.

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