[Woj]Spurs have pulled offer to Marcus Morris and agreed to a deal with free agent Trey Lyles

[Extra Stout]

Then trade Derozan and Aldridge and get even more picks. There's no use to keeping them on the roster if that's what you think.



Me too, chopper. But it's come to that tbh.

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

[Atl Spur]

Bruh, you think most of us want SA to fail? No. We are judging this based on certain things. Of course we would be thrilled if Lyles turns out to be a legit starting level + player. It’s just that with what we’ve seen, given the landscape, other than being a massive homer there is nothing LOGICAL to be signing praises right now.

It’s not like this a proven guy with tons of talent and people are knocking it. This person has to prove it.

I’ve heard this same song & dance from mainstream media for years.........Patfo will get the benefit from me until they fall off��. I live in a major market that would be on cloud nine to be in our shoes, it’s all about perspective.

[Mugen]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

So you're saying Pop is fine with going out as a 6th-8th seed even though they've got the pieces/assets to give them a shot at being better. And Spurfan is fine with Pop on that?

If that's the case, I'd be thrilled if the team was relocated to Seattle tbh

[Atl Spur]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

Because draft picks equal championships or contention��. Patfo have the formula but it takes time and some good fortune! Patience

[TimDunkem]

DPG, the Spurs are NOT trading their franchise player. Please stop including Mills in hypothetical trade talk.

[DPG21920]

I’ve heard this same song & dance from mainstream media for years.........Patfo will get the benefit from me until they fall off��. I live in a major market that would be on cloud nine to be in our shoes, it’s all about perspective.

Sure - Ive been touting win-building and singing SA praises 90% of the time. But what does what you said have to do with this specific conversation and scenario?

We all know that with Murray/Lonnie/White added to the mix more next year SA is playoff team. That’s not the baseline of the discussion here. It’s that SA has the real chance to do more without sacrificing any youth or too much of the future.

If that is a premise most agree on then the next argument is that they SHOULD be aggressive in making win-now moves beyond relying on what they already have in house. Losing Bertans while adding Carroll/Lyles barley even qualifies. It’s not that those are bad moves in a bubble, but its no where near aggressive enough.

Again, not faulting them for Morris, but that is reality and now they need to ramp up trade discussions and should not hesitate to use some assets to net a difference maker.

[Extra Stout]

So you're saying Pop is fine with going out as a 6th-8th seed even though they've got the pieces/assets to give them a shot at being better. And Spurfan is fine with Pop on that?

If that's the case, I'd be thrilled if the team was relocated to Seattle tbh

They maybe have the pieces/assets to be better by the mid-2020’s, when Popovich is like 75 years old, retired and sipping wine with old friends. They’d have to take their lumps now, though, and he wants no part of that.

A move is actually not out of the question... I can’t see the Holt kids holding onto the franchise long-term (do either of them really even want to live in SA? The daughter moved back from NY because she “was expected to”) and unless the Board of Governors is leery about the optics of a 5-time champion franchise disappearing, I absolutely could see Seattle interests gobbling them up as the new SuperSonics eventually.

[DPG21920]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

What are you basing #1 off of? SA made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no DeRozan and that was with White not playing, no Poeltl and no Lonnie or Carroll. SA would not be a 20 win team if you trade DeRozan for picks/youth. They would have a worse ceiling but the floor is the same and that ceiling is low now with adding nothing of note to the team.

2) Spurs aren’t contending now so that is already happening. Spurs are winbuilding and they can do that without DeRozan.

[duncan2150]

Without Derozan and Aldrige this team will not be in the playoff hunt, so i understand that they don't want to rebuild now and they can rebuild with the walker murray white.... and still make the playoff by keeping LA and DDR.

Giving pick for a middle type player like Marvin Williams is not a good option because he will not improve the Spurs from their 5-8 range in the West, same with Morris.

Imo you have to do what's possible without gving picks or youth and in two years you will have young guys and some cap.

[Pavlov]

Sure Morris hurt and I had them at an A with Morris. But results matter and while I don’t blame them for Morris, Rudy was on team last year, Murray/White/Lonnie were a part of the team and adding Carroll/Lyles less Bertans is not a whole lot for a team that went all in on a win now trade with DeRozan vs a future oriented package.

I’ve been high on young3 more than most and understand that internal improvement is crucial; however SA needed to lean in really hard and so far results wise it has not been that. Grading on what has happened, it’s not enough and they need to prove they will make bold moves to give the team a chance to win now.

the bold move was trading Bertans to open up the full MLE for Morris. It was risky and it failed.

What are you proposing now?

Trading expiring deals?

That's probably going to wait until closer to the deadline. Clamoring for more "bold" moves now seems unrealistic.

[Extra Stout]

What are you basing #1 off of? SA made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no DeRozan and that was with White not playing, no Poeltl and no Lonnie or Carroll. SA would not be a 20 win team if you trade DeRozan for picks/youth. They would have a worse ceiling but the floor is the same and that ceiling is low now with adding nothing of note to the team.

2) Spurs aren’t contending now so that is already happening. Spurs are winbuilding and they can do that without DeRozan.

I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

[coachmac87]

I think a direction should be picked. If the goal for SA is just make the playoffs with no real threat of more, then my mindset is shaped by the fact that they can do that without DeRozan. They already proved that and have a way better team (sans DeRozan) than they did the year they made it without Kawhi/DeRozan.

But what I want to see is SA getting aggressive with future picks to land a starting caliber, ceiling raising player. Morris was great because it reasonably accomplished that WITHOUT trading any core youth or picks.


But now? That fell apart but they should be very aggressive with picks. I agree that win-building is a great strategy; but there is nothing that should prevent them from taking aggressive but calculated shots to win now with cir stances in the West changing.

I don’t want to trade any of Walker/Murray/Lonnie to improve unless it’s for a surefire young star (Beal). That is very unlikely but should be explored.

That leaves us with SA using Beli/Forbes/Mills and anyone else (including Poeltl whom I really like) plus future firsts IF it nets a “Morris” caliber player. It’s not ideal to give up a first for Morris, but if that opportunity exists with the amount of youth SA already has it’s a fair price to pay to make good on the deal you made with trading Kawhi for DeRozan while still having plenty of flexibility, future picks and young players.

So call ORL and see if someone like Aaron Gordon could be had for salaries + a pick or two. Call CHA and see if Marvin Williams is available.

It doesn’t have to be an all star; just someone quality enough to crack the top 7 rotation and give SA a reasonable enough shot and making more noise than currently constructed.

I still think all that can be done..just maybe not right now or this second. Most fans of this team know we approach things with a cautious approach. Sometimes it doesn’t work out but their track record shows they know what they’re doing tbh.

They probably want to see how much Murray improved, what will DeMar look like in year Two? Is Walker ready for that big step?

The trade pieces are Belli, Patty, Forbes etc. But if they jump the gun and one of the above things I stated doesn’t go well it could hurt. What if they suffer an injury?

As of NOW this team can compete..but maybe they can’t and then you get aggressive once you figure it out. What if other teams suffer injuries or other things? That can change your aggression or other teams go in a different direction.

I mean it’s not the best feeling seeing other teams “make moves” while we sign Carroll and rely on our development of players. But I mean as a Spurs fan isn’t that expected?

[Marcus Bryant]

I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

Near term best scenario is that one or more of the young guards develops into a borderline star and by a trade or two they get talent in return to have a shot at contending in the next couple of seasons. If it doesn't happen, BFD. Nothing to gripe about every ing day, but to each their own.

[RC_Drunkford]

But what I want to see is SA getting aggressive with future picks to land a starting caliber, ceiling raising player. Morris was great because it reasonably accomplished that WITHOUT trading any core youth or picks.

But now? That fell apart but they should be very aggressive with picks. I agree that win-building is a great strategy; but there is nothing that should prevent them from taking aggressive but calculated shots to win now with cir stances in the West changing.

I agree with you, I think with some minor tweaks they actually have a chance to make a run. I was happy to see RC being more aggressive and making a trade to bring in Morris. But the problem now is there aren't many players of his caliber out there and most of those wings were free agents a few weeks ago. So I guess Spurs would wait things out and see who's on the trading block as the deadline approaches. That seems to be the right strategy here. They should absolutely make a move by then

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs fans were spoiled over the last 25 seasons up until Duncan's retirement by franchise players in him and DRob who were content to play and live in a small market in the middle of the country and also ultimately buy into Pop's system, in addition to supporting stars such as Parker and Ginobili. Not to mention DRob being willing to hand over the reigns gracefully to Duncan as the team's best player and leader. They were more the exception and not the norm in the NBA during that span. Leonard forcing his way out to ultimately a large market was something new to Spurs fans, but much more common in the league.

[DPG21920]

the bold move was trading Bertans to open up the full MLE for Morris. It was risky and it failed.

What are you proposing now?

Trading expiring deals?

That's probably going to wait until closer to the deadline. Clamoring for more "bold" moves now seems unrealistic.

Trading future 1sts is the bold move.

[DPG21920]

I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

Manu wasn’t very good tbh that year and with Lonnie/White/Dejounte/Carroll/Poeltl, yeah, this team sans DeRozan is better than that team sans DeRozan.

We just disagree on DeRozan’s value. He’s not netting a star, but there are plenty of teams that would value him positively

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs were willing to deal with the clownshow in order to land Marcus freaking Morris what gives anyone the impression that they aren't feeling out teams to find trade scenarios that improve the team, with everyone on the roster not exempt from being dealt?

[DPG21920]

I still think all that can be done..just maybe not right now or this second. Most fans of this team know we approach things with a cautious approach. Sometimes it doesn’t work out but their track record shows they know what they’re doing tbh.

They probably want to see how much Murray improved, what will DeMar look like in year Two? Is Walker ready for that big step?

The trade pieces are Belli, Patty, Forbes etc. But if they jump the gun and one of the above things I stated doesn’t go well it could hurt. What if they suffer an injury?

As of NOW this team can compete..but maybe they can’t and then you get aggressive once you figure it out. What if other teams suffer injuries or other things? That can change your aggression or other teams go in a different direction.

I mean it’s not the best feeling seeing other teams “make moves” while we sign Carroll and rely on our development of players. But I mean as a Spurs fan isn’t that expected?

The fact that SA moved Bertans for Morris shows they weren’t ok just waiting to see how this team does. The fact that Morris screwed them shouldn’t change that IMO. Now? They have to use other assets they were not hoping to use to get their “Morris”. Is what it is but has to be done.

[DPG21920]

Near term best scenario is that one or more of the young guards develops into a borderline star and by a trade or two they get talent in return to have a shot at contending in the next couple of seasons. If it doesn't happen, BFD. Nothing to gripe about every ing day, but to each their own.

That young talent and opportunity is here regardless of using pick(s) to get improvements.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs were willing to deal with the clownshow in order to land Marcus freaking Morris what gives anyone the impression that they aren't feeling out teams to find trade scenarios that improve the team, with everyone on the roster not exempt from being dealt?

Nothing gives the impression; it’s discussing what we think SHOULD be happening (not that it isn’t).

[Pavlov]

Trading future 1sts is the bold move.

OF COURSE you want to trade away future picks.

[coachmac87]

The fact that SA moved Bertans for Morris shows they weren’t ok just waiting to see how this team does. The fact that Morris screwed them shouldn’t change that IMO. Now? They have to use other assets they were not hoping to use to get their “Morris”. Is what it is but has to be done.

Well Bertans wasn’t part of the plan....

How much run did he get in the playoffs? Of course you do that.

[DPG21920]

OF COURSE you want to trade away future picks.

Are you against it for a starting caliber player?

[DPG21920]

Well Bertans wasn’t part of the plan....

How much run did he get in the playoffs? Of course you do that.

Wasn’t part of the plan? SA was not trying to dump him. They used Bertans instead of firsts because that is what got Morris. You always use a player before firsts if it’s not a core player.

But that ship has sailed now.