Well, we passed 16 Trillion today....

[mavs>spurs]

could become the new normal. there's a number of things we've gotten used to in the last ten years that were basically unthinkable before 9/11.

yep, we've become domesticated and castrated pussies who put up with all kinds of bull

[mavs>spurs]

that's not the way it works. first of all, the central banks control interest rates so they can do what they want there. secondly, the coupon payment on those bonds is going to be the same regardless of the interest rate. the only thing that fluctuates is the amount that investors will pay for the bonds, and that determines the interest rate on the bond. but the coupon rate is constant. if we owe 500,000 coupon payments semiannually on each bond for example, then were still going to pay that same coupon payment regardless of the interest rate.

the only thing that changing interest rates could affect is future borrowings basically.

[CosmicCowboy]

that's not the way it works. first of all, the central banks control interest rates so they can do what they want there. secondly, the coupon payment on those bonds is going to be the same regardless of the interest rate. the only thing that fluctuates is the amount that investors will pay for the bonds, and that determines the interest rate on the bond. but the coupon rate is constant. if we owe 500,000 coupon payments semiannually on each bond for example, then were still going to pay that same coupon payment regardless of the interest rate.

That is the way it works. As bonds mature and get paid off new bonds are issued at the current going rate, so new bonds will carry higher interest rates and gradually the "old" low interest bonds get phased out.

[mavs>spurs]

That is the way it works. As bonds mature and get paid off new bonds are issued at the current going rate, so new bonds will carry higher interest rates and gradually the "old" low interest bonds get phased out.

yeah but you are worried about money we haven't even borrowed yet. we just flat won't be able to borrow this kind of money at high interest rates unless we are interested in crashing our country.

[coyotes_geek]

the only thing that changing interest rates could affect is future borrowings basically.

While true, there is the small detail about how we're constantly borrowing money. Thus interest rates going up will affect us.

[mavs>spurs]

While true, there is the small detail about how we're constantly borrowing money. Thus interest rates going up will affect us.

yeah that is going to change, like it or not. one way or another, some day it'll be time to pay the piper. and that's when i flee this and run far, far away. the crash will be devastating.

[boutons_deux]

our government by both parties has betrayed us.

It's a free market, the govt was sold to the highest bidders.

and in the tea world, those bidders are NEVER mentioned, which totally betrays TBs as fakes.

[coyotes_geek]

yeah that is going to change, like it or not. one way or another, some day it'll be time to pay the piper. and that's when i flee this and run far, far away. the crash will be devastating.

The government will just erase the publicly held portion of the debt by having the SSA agree to "forgive" Treasury from paying them back. They'll keep SS going, but there will be massive benefit cuts and massive payroll tax increases. Medicare will also become a voucher program.

Once the public portion of the debt is erased things will be manageable for the time being with the one huge drastic crash averted. Instead we'll just be treated to a cycle of every generation paying more taxes for less benefits than the one before it.

[mavs>spurs]

if you loot SS there will be consequences. the current generation ain't even paying in..it's going to be a mess and not nearly that easily avoidable.

[Wild Cobra]

if you loot SS there will be consequences. the current generation ain't even paying in..it's going to be a mess and not nearly that easily avoidable.

SS has already been looted. there is no lockbox.

[coyotes_geek]

if you loot SS there will be consequences. the current generation ain't even paying in..it's going to be a mess and not nearly that easily avoidable.

Oh people will definitely get pissed, but given the alternative of absolute financial collapse our politicians will relent. Given how little we hold our politicians accountable, most of them will probably keep their jobs. Both sides will come together to do the deal, shake on it and then head for the nearest television camera to tell the upset public that "it had to be done and it's all the other team's fault".

[mavs>spurs]

and when all the retirees starve? the problem is, they need MORE to be able to survive..it's like time to increase benefits and we're going to have to go the opposite direction. won't be good.

how do you tell someone who paid into the damn thing for 50 years that they don't even get enough money to survive on? people ought to be tried for treason and hanged for this .

[coyotes_geek]

and when all the retirees starve?

Publicly, just evidence of the opposing party's irresponsible policies.

Privately, unfortunate but necessary collateral damage to avert a complete financial collapse.

how do you tell someone who paid into the damn thing for 50 years that they don't even get enough money to survive on?

Simple. You blame it all on the opposing party.

[boutons_deux]

7 Ways to End the Deficit (without Throwing Grandma under the Bus)


http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/09/05-12

uncapping SS, and reinstating the complete estate tax cuts would add a couple $T back.

[Wild Cobra]

Common Dreams?

Someone else tell me if it's a worthwhile read before I open it. It seems only about 1% of their material isn't complete bull .

[boutons_deux]

WC is 100% bull

[RandomGuy]

We need 32 Trillion in debt, not 16.

Right now.

[DarrinS]

We need 32 Trillion in debt, not 16.

Right now.

Que?

[Borat Sagyidev]

The dollar will collapse and that $16 Trillion will be paid off with a few hundred Yen.

/end thread.

[boutons_deux]

Who Owns US debt?

Biggest Holders of US Government Debt

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bigges...ov-t-debt.html

China owns USA?

[CosmicCowboy]

So owing ourselves 6.5 trillion (most which will be needed to pay future social security benefits that have been promised) is a good thing?

What happens when they have to come up with the CASH to pay those benefits? Where is the CASH going to come from?

[boutons_deux]

The greedy, gorging, corrupt vampire-squid health care system and the corrupt MIC will provide the cash.

[Quadzilla99]

One day Republicans will get back in charge and fix this horrible debt crisis which they really really care bout. Deeply and truly care about. Deeply.

[Quadzilla99]

Oh cool, another thread where Republicans pretend they've ALWAYS cared about the national deficit

Was this ever not so?

[DMC]

6 trillion, 60 trillion. Who's going to collect? Has anyone here missed a meal because of it? No.