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  1. #51
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Ginobili wasn't a star, tbh. He was on a second division team in Italy. Gordan Giricek was considered by far the better prospect for at least a year after the draft.
    Pretty sure Manu won an MVP or some in one of his Euro leagues.

  2. #52
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Phxspurfan reminding people how ing stupid he is.
    Posts like this. From a player fan of a player who just went 1-13.

    No argument stated, no counterpoint, just random hate. Keep up the quality content.
    Last edited by phxspurfan; 01-04-2021 at 05:07 PM.

  3. #53
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?

  4. #54
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?
    Yup those are called Lottery Picks, and even they are not guaranteed NBA caliber. Most of the picks Spurs had were late 20's, no thanks to Spurs' perennial playoff appearance.

  5. #55
    GAME OVER gospursgojas's Avatar
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    Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.

  6. #56
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?
    Wait, what lesson should the Spurs have learned? Not to draft any Euro prospects? Not to draft project players? Both are re ed lessons to be "learning"...

    Also, the same way you can say "imagine having Keldon, plus another productive player...", we could've easily not drafted Keldon, and be stuck with two projects/busts. Drafting is like shooting in the dark most of the time, many times even in the lottery - and the Spurs have some fine accuracy, all things considered. Who was saying today that people can't be satisfied? I agree with you, my man, wherever you are, tbh.

  7. #57
    Believe.
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    And yes ofc I included some second rounders. Otherwise there's not a lot since we have been drafting mostly high 1st round / 2nd round during the dynasty.
    The thread is about "How many 1st round picks have [the Spurs] wasted on international stiffs." So doesn't your quote above mean that your actual answer is "not a lot"?

  8. #58
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    And btw here is a list of international absolute shows of picks Spurs have made after they hit their TP/Manu home runs (not counting Scola, who was actually good but Spurs mis-managed bringing him over, and not counting players drafted for other teams via draft day trade):

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...SAS/draft.html

    Robertas Javtokas (Lithuania)
    Ian Mahinmi (France)
    Nando De Cola (France)*
    Ryan Richards (UK)
    Adam Hanga (Hungary)
    Livio Jean-Charles (France)
    Nikola Milutinov (Serbia)
    Luka Samanic (Croatia)


    *after this abomination of a pick and the resulting experience / bouncing this head back to Euroleagues, Spurs FO had been burnt and started drafting more American players
    Javtokas would have been good if he didn't himself in a motorcycle crash. But ugh at LJC, Milutinov, and now Samancic as complete wastes of picks. Yeah time to ditch drafting Euros late now that the rest of the NBA has caught up and started drafting the good ones at appropriate spots. Though to be fair, I don't think the Spurs will be drafting late in the first round again for a long time.

  9. #59
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.
    Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.

  10. #60
    Spurs love forever RobinsontoDuncan's Avatar
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    I’m sorry — am I understanding this correctly: Luka played 6 garbage time minutes and all of Spurstalk is now convinced he’s a bust? What?

    First, look back at how much playing time Lonnie had this time last year. He also looked pretty bad in his limited minutes early on. Second, the idea that Luka is not athletic or has bad feet is just really, really stupid. He’s an athletic specimen. I don’t know what happened to this forum, which used to be one of the coolest places on the internet, but the quality of posters is really bad compared to what it used to be. I feel dumber for reading threads like this one.

  11. #61
    Spurs love forever RobinsontoDuncan's Avatar
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    Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.


    Watch it again. Luka made some really nice plays off the dribble and just struggled finishing. He definitely has NBA talent. Horrible take.

  12. #62
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.
    Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

    As has been said, Trey Jones* is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

    Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age compe ion and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quan y. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.
    Last edited by phxspurfan; 01-04-2021 at 09:41 PM.

  13. #63
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

    As has been said, Trey Lyles is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

    Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age compe ion and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quan y. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.
    Taking a chance on a guy like Luka (low floor, high ceiling) could land you a Giannis - type (not very likely MVP - level impact) prospect that completely alters your franchise's trajectory.

    Never taking huge hacks (whether hitting or missing), especially in a small, "unattractive" market like San Antonio, has you in mediocrity for a decade or worse.

    Especially, in a draft where you have 2 first-round picks so you can gamble with one pick and hope he's a home run (like Poke in OKC). Unless you are Keldon's agent or family then why give a where he was selected?


    And unfortunately, because prospects are younger now more than ever, every team is going to whiff at a higher rate. Dragan Bender, Dario Saric & D.J. Wilson are all examples of players of similar skillset to Samanic. Two were from overseas (and drafted in the lottery) while Wilson played 3 years of college basketball (which should have made him more of a "sure thing").

    Bender has washed out of the league, Saric is nothing more than a role player and Wilson has been glued to the Milwaukee bench until this season. And now he's looking like an actual "bust" since his numbers are atrocious after finally getting a chance.

    So, again, it is easy to complain that they "should have chosen so and so," but the reality is they didn’t. Hope Luka pans out, if he doesn't then move on, they'll have a better chance this off-season to draft someone that can actually be impactful and help the team win.

  14. #64
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Our boi Bert was picked in 2011 by the Pacers and came to us via the Kawhi trade, did he not? Plus he was a shining Riga star, nowhere near bust. And Splitter was good. I also didn't include Scola since he ended up being good. Only included guys who were bad. And yes ofc I included some second rounders. Otherwise there's not a lot since we have been drafting mostly high 1st round / 2nd round during the dynasty.
    Like most draft night trades, Bertans was picked by Indy, but at our behest. You don’t honestly think Indy picked him for themselves, and we randomly decided we wanted him, do you?

  15. #65
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Like most draft night trades, Bertans was picked by Indy, but at our behest. You don’t honestly think Indy picked him for themselves, and we randomly decided we wanted him, do you?
    Sure, I don't really remember that the trade went down on draft night and the exact timing of the communication and the pick if it happened that way. Those were the dark days when we were busy being swept by the Suns and losing 1-8 to the Grizz or some .

    I also wouldn't have put him on the list bc the list is about foreign draft picks who sucked as Spurs. Bert was a badass Spur and youre a piece of if you think otherwise. He also took his trade like a man, balled out the next year, got his kid brother a shot at the NBA, and secured the bag.

  16. #66
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.
    No, I’m actually calling next year for rotation minutes, two years after his draft. I haven’t seen anyone calling for a rolling two year window. Reiterating this year that he’s a two year project doesn’t mean we don’t recognize that one of those years has already elapsed.

  17. #67
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?
    It's funny because the first round US college dissapointments list is much bigger, tbh.

  18. #68
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Pretty sure Manu won an MVP or some in one of his Euro leagues.
    timvp stated that AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED, he was not a star. His Euroleague Final Four MVP came almost three years later, around the time of the FIBA world championship, 2002.

  19. #69
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    It's funny because the first round US college dissapointments list is much bigger, tbh.
    Chris Carrawell, Bryan Bracey, Jack McClinton.

  20. #70
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.

  21. #71
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Since 97 (Duncan era)

    List of US college draftees

    -Derrick Dial
    -Felipe López
    -Cory Hightower
    -Chris Carrawell
    -Bryan Bracey
    -Randy Holcomb
    -John Salmons
    -Romain Sato
    -Marcus Williams
    -James Gist
    -George Hill
    -Jack McClinton
    -DeJuan Blair
    -James Anderson
    -Corey Joseph
    -Deshaun Thomas
    -Marcus Denmon
    -Jordan McRae
    -Kyle Anderson
    -Cady Lalanne
    -Dejounte Murray
    -Jaron Blossomgame
    -Derrick White
    -Chimizie Metu
    -Lonnie Walker
    -Devin Vassell
    -Tre Jones
    -Quinndary Weatherspoon
    -Keldon Johnson

    27% hit/miss ratio.

    List of International draftees

    -Manu Ginobili
    -Robertas Javtokas
    -Tony Parker
    -Luis Scola
    -Leandro Barbosa
    -Sergei Karaulov
    -Beno Udrih
    -Ian Mahinmi
    -Damir Marmota
    -Giorgos Printezis
    -Tiago Splitter
    -Goran Dragic
    -Nando DeColo
    -Ryan Richards
    -Adam Hanga
    -Livio Jean-Charles
    -Nikola Milutinov
    -Luka Samanic

    44% Hit/miss ratio. That's absurd for a team constantly picking last.

    And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. First, playing professional basketball in Europe >>> playing college in the US. Second, to hit the NBA radar as an International prospect requires double the talent and effort than being noticed as a US prospect, for obvious reasons.

    And now you know why the Spurs insist so much with International prospects. If anything, numbers indicate they should select even more International players, tbh.
    Last edited by DAF86; 01-04-2021 at 11:55 PM.

  22. #72
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.
    Why?

    That's US centrism at it's finest. Player development in Europe >>>>>> player development in US colleges (and to be really honest, better than player development in the NBA too). You won't find an International developed player that isn't technically sound. No matter the position, most players can shoot, pass and think the game. What US college players have over most International prospects is inhuman raw athleticism, but that many times goes to waste because of the extremely poor level of player development in US colleges.

  23. #73
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Imagine a guy like Fabricio Oberto being developed by the US college program. He would still be working on Mcdonald's trying to make his music career work.

  24. #74
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Now imagine Dejounte Murray being properly taught how to dribble a basketball, run a pick and roll, and managing a fast break.

  25. #75
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    Imagine a guy like Fabricio Oberto being developed by the US college program. He would still be working on Mcdonald's trying to make his music career work.
    Agreed. You could also say the same about Doncic if he grew up in the US instead of Europe he would have been a scrub in the AAU circuit.

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