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  1. #301
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    But since I value both critical thinking and honesty, I will answer.
    Quid pro quo.

    How was Sicknick's death an unlawful premeditated killing?

  2. #302
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    RandomGuy you've been active in multiple threads today and I saw you in here earlier lurking. Why did you suddenly shut up and refuse to answer my question?

    quid pro quo
    valuing honesty

  3. #303
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Quid pro quo.

    How was Sicknick's death an unlawful premeditated killing?
    ANSWER MY QUESTION THAT DEFINES MURDER THIS WAY AND THIS WAY ONLY OR I WIN

  4. #304
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    ANSWER MY QUESTION THAT DEFINES MURDER THIS WAY AND THIS WAY ONLY OR I WIN
    You never win, Blake.

  5. #305
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    RandomGuy you've been active in multiple threads today and I saw you in here earlier lurking. Why did you suddenly shut up and refuse to answer my question?

    quid pro quo
    valuing honesty
    Honestly been debating on how best to respond. Go a few more rounds of Q & A, or just cut to the chase. Already pretty much know how it is going to play out, and it is less interesting than shredding Nathan's ill-considered stance on racism, sorry.

    Really have to get RL stuff done though. Thanks for the mention, because I was going to log and get to it later. it is good to have reminders, and you have my word I will get to it, and let it play out.

  6. #306
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Honestly been debating on how best to respond. Go a few more rounds of Q & A, or just cut to the chase. Already pretty much know how it is going to play out, and it is less interesting than shredding Nathan's ill-considered stance on racism, sorry.

    Really have to get RL stuff done though. Thanks for the mention, because I was going to log and get to it later. it is good to have reminders, and you have my word I will get to it, and let it play out.
    A few more rounds of Q & A??? how bout just answering my question. Quid pro quo remember?

  7. #307
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    A few more rounds of Q & A??? how bout just answering my question. Quid pro quo remember?
    Let's cut to the chase:

    We are using the word "murder" differently.

    You want the narrow legal definition, and mine is not that, and inferred, i.e. mostly my opinion. I base it on having some proximal cause, and would not be anything that I would personally convict someone on in a court.

    I think it more likely than not that Sicknick was, in fact, murdered. I think the sudden stroking out after impacts to his head, and exposure to chemicals to be a bit too much to attribute to pure coincidence. The ME's report, what we know of it so far, doesn't really rule it out, probably since conclusively establishing a causal connection isn't supported by the evidence. That is cool, and probably appropriate.

    I construe the officers that committed suicide in the aftermath to have also been essentially murdered, since the violence of that day is what I would consider to be a proximal cause (legal term look it up). You have actually acceded to a couple of the things I regard as necessary to establish some reasonable basis for my estimation.

    You want the "gotcha" based on a narrow reading, and that is not how I am using it here.

    Better?

  8. #308
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    Idiots thought that their actions would not cost them anything and that they would not be prosecuted!

    ‘Trump Train’ drivers who tried to run Biden bus off road sued under KKK Act.

    Days before the 2020 election, a bus transporting a team of President Joe Biden’s campaign staff to an event in Texas was nearly run off the road by a barrage of vehicles toting Trump flags. Now, two lawsuits have been filed in relation to the incident — one against the Trump supporting drivers, dubbed the ‘Trump Train,’ and another against law enforcement who “turned a blind eye.”

    “When members of the ‘Trump Train’ surrounded us on the highway and started harassing and threatening us, we were terrified,” said bus driver and plaintiff Timothy Holloway in a press release.

    In the lawsuit filed against the drivers, the plaintiffs argue that the Trump Train’s goal was to intimidate supporters of Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris. And the tactic worked — the final event of the Biden campaign’s “Battle for the Soul of the Nation” tour was cancelled.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

  9. #309
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Let's cut to the chase:

    We are using the word "murder" differently.

    You want the narrow legal definition, and mine is not that, and inferred, i.e. mostly my opinion. I base it on having some proximal cause, and would not be anything that I would personally convict someone on in a court.

    I think it more likely than not that Sicknick was, in fact, murdered. I think the sudden stroking out after impacts to his head, and exposure to chemicals to be a bit too much to attribute to pure coincidence. The ME's report, what we know of it so far, doesn't really rule it out, probably since conclusively establishing a causal connection isn't supported by the evidence. That is cool, and probably appropriate.

    I construe the officers that committed suicide in the aftermath to have also been essentially murdered, since the violence of that day is what I would consider to be a proximal cause (legal term look it up). You have actually acceded to a couple of the things I regard as necessary to establish some reasonable basis for my estimation.

    You want the "gotcha" based on a narrow reading, and that is not how I am using it here.

    Better?
    I mean Chauvin just got sentenced for murder and he didn't plan that for months.

  10. #310
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Let's cut to the chase:

    We are using the word "murder" differently.

    You want the narrow legal definition, and mine is not that, and inferred, i.e. mostly my opinion. I base it on having some proximal cause, and would not be anything that I would personally convict someone on in a court.

    I think it more likely than not that Sicknick was, in fact, murdered. I think the sudden stroking out after impacts to his head, and exposure to chemicals to be a bit too much to attribute to pure coincidence. The ME's report, what we know of it so far, doesn't really rule it out, probably since conclusively establishing a causal connection isn't supported by the evidence. That is cool, and probably appropriate.

    I construe the officers that committed suicide in the aftermath to have also been essentially murdered, since the violence of that day is what I would consider to be a proximal cause (legal term look it up). You have actually acceded to a couple of the things I regard as necessary to establish some reasonable basis for my estimation.

    You want the "gotcha" based on a narrow reading, and that is not how I am using it here.

    Better?
    There was no impact to the head. There was no allergic reaction to chemical irritants. What you “think” is irrelevant.

    In an interview with The Washington Post, Francisco J. Diaz, the medical examiner, said the autopsy found no evidence the 42-year-old officer suffered an allergic reaction to chemical irritants, which Diaz said would have caused Sicknick’s throat to quickly seize. Diaz also said there was no evidence of internal or external injuries.

  11. #311
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    It's hilarious when a grassy knoller like tsa doesn't question anything about the medical examiner's report because it's his team that stormed the castle.

  12. #312
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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  13. #313
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    It's hilarious when a grassy knoller like tsa doesn't question anything about the medical examiner's report because it's his team that stormed the castle.
    Tsa also left out: However, Diaz told the Post that "all that transpired played a role in his condition."

  14. #314
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Tsa also left out: However, Diaz told the Post that "all that transpired played a role in his condition."
    And any QANONer worth his salt would ask about the part further down about it taking 100 days to release the report to authorities and why it hasn't been released to the public yet.

  15. #315
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    And any QANONer worth his salt would ask about the part further down about it taking 100 days to release the report to authorities and why it hasn't been released to the public yet.
    True, plus how come the autopsy was not conducted by an American medical examiner instead of a being outsourced to a foreigner.

  16. #316
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    There was no impact to the head. There was no allergic reaction to chemical irritants. What you “think” is irrelevant.
    Stupid , we have evidence of both head impact and exposure to chemicals happening.

    Sorry, there is evidence outside of what the ME said.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUuJy4TGz8



    Videos that show Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick being hit with a chemical spray and the moments that followed during the January 6 riot.obtained by NBC News

    TSA

  17. #317
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Stupid , we have evidence of both head impact and exposure to chemicals happening.

    Sorry, there is evidence outside of what the ME said.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUuJy4TGz8



    Videos that show Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick being hit with a chemical spray and the moments that followed during the January 6 riot.obtained by NBC News

    TSA
    Never said there wasn't exposure to chemicals but that there wasn't an allergic reaction to chemicals.

    What evidence outside of the medical examiners report can you provide that prove the stroke was caused by impacts to his head and chemical irritants? Back your claims up.

    "Democratic House managers arguing for then-President Donald Trump’s impeachment said Sicknick was killed by rioters, citing a New York Times story that said police initially believed Sicknick had been struck with a fire extinguisher. The Times later updated the story saying there was no evidence of blunt-force trauma."

  18. #318
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    TSA admits the right wing terror attack of 1/6 was unforgivably violent. The rest is nitpicking.

  19. #319
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    Can't make this up! Guess who is backtracking on marching to Capitol? But it will not mater to the "great unwashed" trailer camp dwellers on this forum who will spermshield for him, as they are so low iq and gullible.

    Trump Said He 'Didn't Mean It Literally' When He Told Supporters He Would March to the Capitol With Them.

    On Jan. 6, Trump’s then-chief of staff Mark Meadows was surprised to hear Trump tell his supporters that he would accompany them to the Capitol that day.

    "After this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you,” Trump said from the “Stop the Steal” rally stage. “We’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down.”

    As soon as Trump got off the stage, a little after 1 p.m., Meadows pulled him aside to tell him that the White House team couldn’t “organize” such an excursion for the president. Trump replied: “I didn’t mean it literally.”

    This detail comes from a new excerpt for Michael Wolff’s forthcoming tell-all, which chronicles the final days of the Trump administration. There are other notable tidbits, but this one jumps out because it’s probably the clearest example of how Trump’s tossed-off comments brought about disastrous consequences. As with many such comments, Trump had ad-libbed this part of the speech; there was no line about walking in its original text, Wolff reports.

    Trump’s reassurance that he would march alongside his supporters to the Capitol undoubtedly encouraged them to do it, and renewed their rage and righteous feeling, which shortly thereafter led to insurrection and death. And of course Trump never intended to go at all. As Wolff puts it: “Trump didn’t walk anywhere.”

    The former president’s response to the Capitol attack—which he reported watched on television—consisted mostly of “puzzlement,” according to Wolff. Trump is said to have openly wondered “who these people were with their low-rent ‘trailer camp’ bearing and their ‘get-ups.’” Wolff said Trump also referred to the group of insurrectionists as “the great unwashed”—reminders of Trump’s profound disdain for the poor.

    https://jezebel.com/trump-said-he-di...upp-1847191142

  20. #320
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Never said there wasn't exposure to chemicals but that there wasn't an allergic reaction to chemicals.

    What evidence outside of the medical examiners report can you provide that prove the stroke was caused by impacts to his head and chemical irritants? Back your claims up.

    "Democratic House managers arguing for then-President Donald Trump’s impeachment said Sicknick was killed by rioters, citing a New York Times story that said police initially believed Sicknick had been struck with a fire extinguisher. The Times later updated the story saying there was no evidence of blunt-force trauma."


    I do not have the ME's report, which by all accounts, was pretty inconclusive.

    It merely seems to me to be a bit too much of a coincidence that someone subjected to that dies of a stroke within hours.

    I merely think it more likely than not, based solely on that.

    My opinion.

    I also straight up blame the Trump cultists for the deaths by suicide of the officers that later took their own lives.

    The riots and violence were a proximal cause in my opinion, making the instigators of that violence murderers in that sense of the word.

    I view the ones that really lashed out with bats, poles, and pepper spray that were actively attempting an insurrection to, in essence to collectively be murderers, just as surely as if they had guns and killed the officers in general.

    Your fellow Trump cultists that day were, to me, murderers.

  21. #321
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    TSA admits the right wing terror attack of 1/6 was unforgivably violent. The rest is nitpicking.
    Pretty much.

    The sophism here is just like his Mueller report sophism. Hiding behind the inconclusive nature of the available evidence as a fig leaf to cover for a common-sense wider damning assessment.

  22. #322
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    A Florida pastor and his son were arrested in connection with the Capitol riot after a congregant gave them up


    A father and son pastor duo are the most recent accused Capitol rioters to be arrested and charged over their participation in the January 6 insurrection.

    James "Jim" Varnell Cusick, 72, and his son Casey Cusick, 35, who both serve as pastors at Global Outreach Church of Melbourne in Melbourne, Florida, as well as a member of their congregation, were arrested on Thursday, according to charging do ents.

    In late January, the FBI received an anonymous tip that James was inside the Capitol rotunda during the Capitol attack, prosecutors said. On March 26, the agency received another tip from a different individual alleging that both James and his son Casey had traveled from Florida to Washington, DC, to attend then-President Donald Trump's rally.

    The tipster said the pair was accompanied by another individual, "known to law enforcement" as David Lesperance, and the three had entered the Capitol during the riot and taken videos and pictures, according to charging do ents.

    https://news.yahoo.com/florida-pasto...220635369.html

  23. #323
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    EXCLUSIVE: 'It's like Guantanamo Bay': Inside the Washington D.C. jail where Capitol rioters are 'treated like domestic terrorists,' assaulted, taunted and locked up in 'closet-sized' cells up to 24hours a day

    McBride said there were about 30 Capitol protest suspects in the jail in April when his client was released under house arrest - following three months at DC Central. Many of riot suspects have also been released under house arrest or moved to another jail.

    The Washington D.C. Department of Corrections didn't respond to multiple calls and emails for interview or say how many are currently being housed.

    McBride said guards told his client and other '1/6ers' that 'the world hates them,' 'they'll be forgotten' and 'they'll spend the rest of their lives in here,' among other disparaging remarks.

    There's a pending grievance against one of the guards who allegedly threatened to sexually assault Barnett's wife.

    Another Capitol rioter, Ryan Samsel, was allegedly beaten by a guard so badly that he may lose an eye and has had his jaw wired shut, his lawyer Elisabeth Pasqualini said in media interviews.

    Samsel is accused of attacking a law enforcement officer during the insurrection.

    The Department of Corrections deny their guards' involvement but Pasqualini is urging them to allow her client to be transferred to another jail for his own protection.

    'Mr. Samsel's safety and medical wellbeing remains at risk as a result of his continued incarceration,' she said in a May 24 motion to transfer her client to another jail.

    In the May 24 court do ent, Pasqualini stated that her client was assaulted and that they're still waiting for medical records.

    Samsel, Barnett, and other Capitol protestors' human rights 'are routinely violated... absent meaningful objection from the legal community, academia, or the media,' McBride told DailyMail.com.

    '(The jail guards) do their best to get guys to break us down mentally,' Barnett said in an email to DailyMail.com. 'We did our best to help out whatever guy was suffering that day.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...errorists.html
    Shocker, federal prison system isn't pleasant.

  24. #324
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    A Florida pastor and his son were arrested in connection with the Capitol riot after a congregant gave them up


    A father and son pastor duo are the most recent accused Capitol rioters to be arrested and charged over their participation in the January 6 insurrection.

    James "Jim" Varnell Cusick, 72, and his son Casey Cusick, 35, who both serve as pastors at Global Outreach Church of Melbourne in Melbourne, Florida, as well as a member of their congregation, were arrested on Thursday, according to charging do ents.

    In late January, the FBI received an anonymous tip that James was inside the Capitol rotunda during the Capitol attack, prosecutors said. On March 26, the agency received another tip from a different individual alleging that both James and his son Casey had traveled from Florida to Washington, DC, to attend then-President Donald Trump's rally.

    The tipster said the pair was accompanied by another individual, "known to law enforcement" as David Lesperance, and the three had entered the Capitol during the riot and taken videos and pictures, according to charging do ents.

    https://news.yahoo.com/florida-pasto...220635369.html
    They entered the capitol and took videos and pictures oh the horror.

  25. #325
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    I do not have the ME's report, which by all accounts, was pretty inconclusive.

    It merely seems to me to be a bit too much of a coincidence that someone subjected to that dies of a stroke within hours.

    I merely think it more likely than not, based solely on that.

    My opinion.

    I also straight up blame the Trump cultists for the deaths by suicide of the officers that later took their own lives.

    The riots and violence were a proximal cause in my opinion, making the instigators of that violence murderers in that sense of the word.

    I view the ones that really lashed out with bats, poles, and pepper spray that were actively attempting an insurrection to, in essence to collectively be murderers, just as surely as if they had guns and killed the officers in general.

    Your fellow Trump cultists that day were, to me, murderers.
    He didn't die of a stroke within hours. So you've based your opinion solely on something that is not correct He died of a stroke over 24 hours after the incident at the capitol. You don't even have a basic understanding of how he died there is no point continuing this conversation with you.

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