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  1. #1
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    ... he was drafted by Pistons?

    2004 - Detroit won without LeBron
    2005 - Pistons lost tough 7 game series vs Spurs. They win with LeBron
    2006 - Pistons go past Miami and win vs Mavericks with LeBron
    2007 - it's gets tougher, but I think Pistons still win it all
    2008 and 2009 - Lebron signs new contract, so it's tougher to say what happens next. Pistons in rebuild mode. Possible 2 more rings

    So, LeBron gets at least 4 rings in his first 6 years. Great start.

  2. #2
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    I mean, he is the undisputed goat

  3. #3
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Darko would bring a le to Cleveland and be regarded as the undisputed Kang

  4. #4
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Timmy Duncan > LeBron.

    Carry on children.

  5. #5
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    ... he was drafted by Pistons?

    2004 - Detroit won without LeBron
    2005 - Pistons lost tough 7 game series vs Spurs. They win with LeBron
    2006 - Pistons go past Miami and win vs Mavericks with LeBron
    2007 - it's gets tougher, but I think Pistons still win it all
    2008 and 2009 - Lebron signs new contract, so it's tougher to say what happens next. Pistons in rebuild mode. Possible 2 more rings

    So, LeBron gets at least 4 rings in his first 6 years. Great start.
    And if he did that and the others without help from the refs? Sure.

    But reality being what it is....

  6. #6
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    I mean, he is the undisputed goat
    Not even top three

    Jordan
    Kareem
    Russell

    James is a peripatetic and likely PED 4-6 finals non GOAT who is nothing but a BSPN created non GOAT

  7. #7
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    I was the biggest Lebron hater before he joined LA, even i had him as an easy top 5 entry, arguably top 3, after he beat Golden State in 2016.

    Still think MJ is the GOAT but the case can definitely be made for Lebron, if he gets #5 and reaches #1 in all time points total.

    '13 Spurs, '16 Warriors and '21 Nets are better than anything MJ ever faced in the playoffs tbh.

  8. #8
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I was the biggest Lebron hater before he joined LA, even i had him as an easy top 5 entry, arguably top 3, after he beat Golden State in 2016.

    Still think MJ is the GOAT but the case can definitely be made for Lebron, if he gets #5 and reaches #1 in all time points total.

    '13 Spurs, '16 Warriors and '21 Nets are better than anything MJ ever faced in the playoffs tbh.
    Well, I think we can make the case that he has the best career ever... or right there with Kareem.

    But as far as being the GOAT, he has too many faceplants for that to even be possible, tbh.

    And let's picture MJ doing what Lebron has been effectively doing...so he leaves the Bulls after the 98 le and instead of retiring, he signs with the Rockets or Blazers and they go back-to-back. Now he has 8 rings and it's just getting down right ridiculous at this point. But I'm sure the stat sheet holders would still try and make a case for their guy, Lebron.

  9. #9
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    You could argue top 5.

    My top 10 goes something like this:

    1.) MJ
    2.) Kareem
    3.) Wilt
    4.) Duncan
    5.) Russell
    6.) Bird
    7.) Magic
    8.) Lebron
    9.) Shaq
    10.) Dream



    Not even top three

    Jordan
    Kareem
    Russell

    James is a peripatetic and likely PED 4-6 finals non GOAT who is nothing but a BSPN created non GOAT

  10. #10
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Timmy Duncan > LeBron.

    Carry on children.
    I never hear people outside this site ever even considering this.

    And Duncan came into the NBA polished and ready to win right away.

    Bizarre.

  11. #11
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    Well, I think we can make the case that he has the best career ever... or right there with Kareem.

    But as far as being the GOAT, he has too many faceplants for that to even be possible, tbh.

    And let's picture MJ doing what Lebron has been effectively doing...so he leaves the Bulls after the 98 le and instead of retiring, he signs with the Rockets or Blazers and they go back-to-back. Now he has 8 rings and it's just getting down right ridiculous at this point. But I'm sure the stat sheet holders would still try and make a case for their guy, Lebron.
    MJ hit too many clutch shots, has too many iconic moments and has a cultural impact both on and off the court that Lebron will never be able to match.

    Like you said, if you go purely by numbers, the case for Lebron can be made.

  12. #12
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I was the biggest Lebron hater before he joined LA, even i had him as an easy top 5 entry, arguably top 3, after he beat Golden State in 2016.

    Still think MJ is the GOAT but the case can definitely be made for Lebron, if he gets #5 and reaches #1 in all time points total.

    '13 Spurs, '16 Warriors and '21 Nets are better than anything MJ ever faced in the playoffs tbh.
    1997 Rockets would defeat those Warriors or these Nets and they couldn't even crack the Finals in that Era

  13. #13
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I mean, he is the undisputed goat

  14. #14
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Well, I think we can make the case that he has the best career ever... or right there with Kareem.

    But as far as being the GOAT, he has too many faceplants for that to even be possible, tbh.

    And let's picture MJ doing what Lebron has been effectively doing...so he leaves the Bulls after the 98 le and instead of retiring, he signs with the Rockets or Blazers and they go back-to-back. Now he has 8 rings and it's just getting down right ridiculous at this point. But I'm sure the stat sheet holders would still try and make a case for their guy, Lebron.
    The Bulls were stacked, why would he go anywhere else?

  15. #15
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    1997 Rockets would defeat those Warriors or these Nets and they couldn't even crack the Finals in that Era

  16. #16
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    And if he did that and the others without help from the refs? Sure.

    But reality being what it is....
    It's just funny how cir stances that players can't control impact their legacy and perception

  17. #17
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Lebron became the undisputed goat the second he joined the lakers.

  18. #18
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    And let's picture MJ doing what Lebron has been effectively doing...so he leaves the Bulls after the 98 le and instead of retiring, he signs with the Rockets or Blazers and they go back-to-back. Now he has 8 rings and it's just getting down right ridiculous at this point. But I'm sure the stat sheet holders would still try and make a case for their guy, Lebron.
    not remotely similar situations considering mike had a competent coach and FO to build an elite team with excellent chemistry in chicago, compared to the mediocre talent bron got in cleveland along with no hope for the future due to a bunch of terrible contracts given out

    could easily argue that if lebron was drafted into a situation like mike or steph where an elite team was built around him from the get-go, that he could already have had 5-6 rings in cleveland alone before 2019

  19. #19
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    not remotely similar situations considering mike had a competent coach and FO to build an elite team with excellent chemistry in chicago, compared to the mediocre talent bron got in cleveland along with no hope for the future due to a bunch of terrible contracts given out

    could easily argue that if lebron was drafted into a situation like mike or steph where an elite team was built around him from the get-go, that he could already have had 5-6 rings in cleveland alone before 2019
    He brought one single le to Cleveland. And numerous beat downs. Leonard accomplished the same in Canada at a fraction of the time.

  20. #20
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I never hear people outside this site ever even considering this.

    And Duncan came into the NBA polished and ready to win right away.

    Bizarre.
    he also came into the NBA playing for a team that had averaged 59 wins for 3 seasons before tanking for a year to get him

    aside from him and magic, not sure any elite player has ever been drafted into such good situations

  21. #21
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    He brought one single le to Cleveland. And numerous beat downs. Leonard accomplished the same in Canada at a fraction of the time.
    yeah because thats a very comparable situation

  22. #22
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    lol 21 nets mentioned in the same sentence as the 16 warriors

  23. #23
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    The jazz are the best team in the NBA and the nyets arent even leading the Eastern standings. Really the top of the NBA is very pedestrian records, looks more like pro baseball at this point. Gone are the days of teams trying to win in the high 60s and chase 70 wins. I get that it's a shortened season but the same concept still applies, i.e. in 2011-12 it was shortened but the top teams had much higher win %'s.

    I think the 16 warriors and how that outcome turned out, winning 73 games but losing the big prize, really lead to the modern load management era league of "meh regular season don't matter" which honestly sucks for the game and greatly reduces the significance of the regular season compared to past eras, almost like it's baseball.

  24. #24
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The Bulls were stacked, why would he go anywhere else?
    Because he took a stand in the 98 offseason saying he didn't want to play for anybody but Phil. So let's say he and Doug Collins end up in Houston or Portland the same way they did in D.C. years later...In this scenario, it just get's down right ridiculous in favor of MJ as undisputed GOAT.

  25. #25
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    No doubt MJ had a much more favorable situation than Lebron did. But Lebron also had something to do with some of those bad contracts. He's always tried to play GM and Cleveland went after every shiny object that became available in order to appease him.

    not remotely similar situations considering mike had a competent coach and FO to build an elite team with excellent chemistry in chicago, compared to the mediocre talent bron got in cleveland along with no hope for the future due to a bunch of terrible contracts given out

    could easily argue that if lebron was drafted into a situation like mike or steph where an elite team was built around him from the get-go, that he could already have had 5-6 rings in cleveland alone before 2019

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