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  1. #1
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/jaden-ivey...o-spurs-draft/

    After diving deep, I like Ivey more than I thought I would. He's still behind Banchero, Holmgren and Smith but he's likely on the same tier.

  2. #2
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    With #4 it’s a no brainer. Instant starter at the 2. Primo’s inevitable 2-3yr development becomes an after thought and Vassell can be a sweetener along with some combo of Dougie, Keldon, Jak and/or JRich for a quality starting wing/big.

  3. #3
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Just don't see the fit with him and Murray tbh. Even if Ivey can become an above average shooter (he'd definitely have to change his shot) it'd be like the White/Murray pairing all over imo. That being said if he's there you take him and figure it out later as you said; kid might have the highest potential of anyone in this draft.

  4. #4
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I agree. The kid is oozing with potential, and the similarities to Ja is exciting. But I don’t get the fit with Murray. Ivey needs the ball on his hands a lot, and yes it’s a Murray/White all over again, except Ivey is a much better prospect especially as a go-to scorer. Shaedon is a better fit at SG especially if his potentials are met. Again, I wouldn’t be at all upset if Spurs selected Ivey

  5. #5
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Watching Ja get injured, and following the path of Rose and IT makes me wary of that model of guard, smallish, but with explosive athleticism. I won’t hate it if he’s the pick, but I won’t love it, either, and his career will likely be shorter than average.

  6. #6
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    You take BPA and let the rest work itself out and i think that may be Ivey. We aren't contenders so looking for 'the right piece' isn't what we should be thinking. Some people are still wanting us to draft like we're a top seed with the Big 3 still on the roster. Our singular question should be who has the highest ceiling when we pick? Anyone who tells you different is lying to you and themselves.

  7. #7
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Watching Ja get injured, and following the path of Rose and IT makes me wary of that model of guard, smallish, but with explosive athleticism. I won’t hate it if he’s the pick, but I won’t love it, either, and his career will likely be shorter than average.
    Same. Also, I don't know if the Spurs want a ball-dominant guard. It's not a format they've used since Gervin. Ball-sharing and multiple points of attack seem more their thing.

  8. #8
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    As mentioned in the previous discussion, I have a clear top 2, Holmgren and then Banchero. After that, things get messy...

    My worry with Ivey is his lack of creation for others... Anyone thinking he's Morant, should think again. Morant averaged 9.9 ast/36, Ivey 3.5 ast/36. Morant had a 1.94 A/TO ratio and Ivey a 1.17 A/TO. Morant was also a slightly better shooter. Ivey is a of an athlete with a strong drive game, but he'll need to improve his shooting in the NBA. To be great, he's going to have to have enough passing to be a triple threat (drive/shoot/pass), and that's a lot of growth in an area he hasn't shown much in...

    Overall, to me, he's in a muddle with Jabari Smith and Shaedon Sharpe in the 2nd tier. Sorting that out is personalities (who you think will be the guy who works the most on his game), and for that, we have to trust the spurs interview process...

  9. #9
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Anyone thinking he's Morant, should think again.

  10. #10
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    So I didn't see Morant's injury. I don't know if it was similar to what happened with Rose. But I think it's absolutely ridiculous to lump Rose, Morant, Ivey and ing Isaiah Thomas into the same group. Ivey is seven inches taller than IT -- he's closer in height to many centers. I certainly understand factoring positional value into a board, but trying to use "What if he becomes and MVP candidate and then gets injured" as some strike against him is obscene.

    I like Ivey quite a bit, and I think the Spurs should do their due diligence on him if they have the opportunity to draft him. Like every pick, he'd have risks, but I'm not sure he's a worse prospect coming out than Anthony Edwards was, and Ant is well on his way to being a high-impact player.

    People keep looking for a finishing superstar in the draft. Banchero may well be the guy, but getting someone who's probably going to be an elite role-player/third member of a big three is fine. Passing up on a guard who you think will be the best player in the draft in the hopes one of the bigs is good enough to complete the lineup is not. I don't do college scouting. I'm not standing on the table for anyone. But the Spurs should be looking at talent first, personality second and fit as a distant afterthought. Simply put, there's not a single player on the roster who should determine what position the Spurs should draft. I'm totally down with Banchero being the pick and potentially creating a situation where the Spurs get a Seattle reunion with Lavine. But I'm equally okay with the Spurs picking Ivey and then using their other picks/assets to bring in a PF. Both of those scenarios would be awesome, and hopefully the lottery allows the Spurs to do that. But the draft is only a small part of what the Spurs can and should do this off-season. It's probably not going to be the franchise-defining element many Spurs fans seem to want to believe it still is.

  11. #11
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Same. Also, I don't know if the Spurs want a ball-dominant guard. It's not a format they've used since Gervin. Ball-sharing and multiple points of attack seem more their thing.
    DDR has entered the chat. That’s a very good point though.

  12. #12
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    Not sold on the Spurs using a top-4 pick on another 6’ 4” guard. I sure hope we successfully add some athletic length this year.

  13. #13
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    DDR has entered the chat. That’s a very good point though.
    I think the comparison with DDR ends at ball dominant. Choke is not in this kid’s vocabulary.

  14. #14
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    I watched quite a bit of Ivey. The notion of him not creating enough for teammates is not wrong but a little misplaced. It also goes to the idea that he needs the ball in his hands, which is definitely not true. For Purdue, he played largely without the ball in his hands, off the ball. There would be stretches in games where he would get ball dominant because the team needed him to be aggressive, and a lot of that would come in the form of open court, coast to coast type plays, so he'd have the ball in his hands the entire time. But mostly, he's more of an off guard than a point guard. Inevitably, he'll likely shrink to 6'3, maybe even 6'2 since the NBA has standardized height listings to height without shoes. And that might become a sticking point for criticism. A 6'2 off guard who is not an elite shooter invites questions, red flags.

    But he's quite long for his height, 6'9 wingspan and he's obviously elite athletically. I actually think Dwyane Wade could be a ceiling comparison. The kid has an "it" factor to him. Something that might be lacking with Banchero, Smith, and maybe even Holmgren if he weren't a 7'1 unicorn.

    I do think Ivey has the highest ceiling of those top 4. But like all prospects, he may never come close to reaching it. So it maybe a safer play to target a Banchero or Smith.

  15. #15
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    "No more 6"4 guards!!!!!" - SpursTalk

  16. #16
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    My dream pick. I love his game and athleticism and if Chip can redo Murray’s shot then he can redo Iveys. If the downside is having an MVP that gets hurt one day then… that’s literally every MVP ever

  17. #17
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    Future OKC pick tbh.

  18. #18
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    So I didn't see Morant's injury. I don't know if it was similar to what happened with Rose. But I think it's absolutely ridiculous to lump Rose, Morant, Ivey and ing Isaiah Thomas into the same group. Ivey is seven inches taller than IT -- he's closer in height to many centers. I certainly understand factoring positional value into a board, but trying to use "What if he becomes and MVP candidate and then gets injured" as some strike against him is obscene.

    I like Ivey quite a bit, and I think the Spurs should do their due diligence on him if they have the opportunity to draft him. Like every pick, he'd have risks, but I'm not sure he's a worse prospect coming out than Anthony Edwards was, and Ant is well on his way to being a high-impact player.

    People keep looking for a finishing superstar in the draft. Banchero may well be the guy, but getting someone who's probably going to be an elite role-player/third member of a big three is fine. Passing up on a guard who you think will be the best player in the draft in the hopes one of the bigs is good enough to complete the lineup is not. I don't do college scouting. I'm not standing on the table for anyone. But the Spurs should be looking at talent first, personality second and fit as a distant afterthought. Simply put, there's not a single player on the roster who should determine what position the Spurs should draft. I'm totally down with Banchero being the pick and potentially creating a situation where the Spurs get a Seattle reunion with Lavine. But I'm equally okay with the Spurs picking Ivey and then using their other picks/assets to bring in a PF. Both of those scenarios would be awesome, and hopefully the lottery allows the Spurs to do that. But the draft is only a small part of what the Spurs can and should do this off-season. It's probably not going to be the franchise-defining element many Spurs fans seem to want to believe it still is.
    This is what I've been saying. Spurs fans are suffering from cultural lag. 10 years ago we drafted based off positional need to round out a contending roster. That's not how you draft in a rebuild. And please don't let DJ's allstar status fool you into believing that we've rounded the corner from rebuild to contender. We are not one player away from a championship, we're another allstar away from being a top 4 WC team at best.

    We should not be drafting for fit and all these folks on here trying to figure out how a player will fit on this roster are stuck in 2012. We aren't getting another allstar in free agency, it will only come through the draft. So draft for talent, period.

  19. #19
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    My dream pick. I love his game and athleticism and if Chip can redo Murray’s shot then he can redo Iveys. If the downside is having an MVP that gets hurt one day then… that’s literally every MVP ever
    Lol Spurstalk doesn’t like players who jump high because they are all the next D Rose.

    Derrick White was a China doll but also a Spurstalk fan favourite because he jumped high 4 years ago versus Denver in the playoffs.

  20. #20
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    This is what I've been saying. Spurs fans are suffering from cultural lag. 10 years ago we drafted based off positional need to round out a contending roster. That's not how you draft in a rebuild. And please don't let DJ's allstar status fool you into believing that we've rounded the corner from rebuild to contender. We are not one player away from a championship, we're another allstar away from being a top 4 WC team at best.

    We should not be drafting for fit and all these folks on here trying to figure out how a player will fit on this roster are stuck in 2012. We aren't getting another allstar in free agency, it will only come through the draft. So draft for talent, period.
    I get your point. But if Spurs drew the #1 pick, would you draft Ivey? I see a lot of potential similarities with Ja, but still it’s a big IF his game translate. While any of Banchero, Chet and Smith immediately address Spurs gaping hole at PF position. I mean if we’re talking generational talent like Timmy, f@ck it, draft the guy and build the roster around him. Ivey could be or not. There’s a big if.

  21. #21
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    I get your point. But if Spurs drew the #1 pick, would you draft Ivey? I see a lot of potential similarities with Ja, but still it’s a big IF his game translate. While any of Banchero, Chet and Smith immediately address Spurs gaping hole at PF position. I mean if we’re talking generational talent like Timmy, f@ck it, draft the guy and build the roster around him. Ivey could be or not. There’s a big if.
    Great question, simple answer, no. My claim isn't that Ivey is the best in the draft, it's a rebuttal to all those people saying they're willing to pass on him because he's "not a good fit" for the current roster. You don't pass up talent for fit unless you're one of the top contenders or a strong free agent destination and you can afford to do it. We are neither so my argument is take the BPA regardless of position or fit.

  22. #22
    Make a trade steal
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    Great question, simple answer, no. My claim isn't that Ivey is the best in the draft, it's a rebuttal to all those people saying they're willing to pass on him because he's "not a good fit" for the current roster. You don't pass up talent for fit unless you're one of the top contenders or a strong free agent destination and you can afford to do it. We are neither so my argument is take the BPA regardless of position or fit.
    Agree, you fit the other players around the top talent you'll get in the draft.

    Make a trade to address roster fit later but go for best player available and the player with the highest potential regardless of position.

  23. #23
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    I watched quite a bit of Ivey. The notion of him not creating enough for teammates is not wrong but a little misplaced. It also goes to the idea that he needs the ball in his hands, which is definitely not true. For Purdue, he played largely without the ball in his hands, off the ball. There would be stretches in games where he would get ball dominant because the team needed him to be aggressive, and a lot of that would come in the form of open court, coast to coast type plays, so he'd have the ball in his hands the entire time. But mostly, he's more of an off guard than a point guard. Inevitably, he'll likely shrink to 6'3, maybe even 6'2 since the NBA has standardized height listings to height without shoes. And that might become a sticking point for criticism. A 6'2 off guard who is not an elite shooter invites questions, red flags.

    But he's quite long for his height, 6'9 wingspan and he's obviously elite athletically. I actually think Dwyane Wade could be a ceiling comparison. The kid has an "it" factor to him. Something that might be lacking with Banchero, Smith, and maybe even Holmgren if he weren't a 7'1 unicorn.

    I do think Ivey has the highest ceiling of those top 4. But like all prospects, he may never come close to reaching it. So it maybe a safer play to target a Banchero or Smith.
    That's what I am envisioning (D-Wade type of ceiling), and if I had the number 1 pick, I'd take JI. Hopefully the Spurs can somehow get into the top 4, and if they do, I hope no other team takes him before whatever pick the Spurs have. If the Spurs were to somehow get him, it'd probably be the next best draft moment to me after drafting TD (obviously not as good as the day we got the number 1 pick to draft TD as I was beyond ecstatic that day, but I think it would be next on my list - the Spurs have only had one high lottery pick in my time watching them, so not much else to compare to, can't always find a Manu and TP that low in the draft). Man, it would be awesome to go back in time. I was so hyped up the day we got the number 1 pick in the 1997 draft (I told my friend we're going to win it all with TD). Before winning the draft lottery that year, I remember there was talk about drafting Danny Fortson to pair with D-Rob. Amazing how different the trajectory would be been had the Spurs not won the draft lottery. Anyway, I could be wrong, but I feel this kid is going to be good.

  24. #24
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Jaden Ivey doesn’t “need the ball a lot”

  25. #25
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    Ivey can be an explosive go to scorer and will be great running with Murray.

    Will make the spurs more exciting with those two guys able to get quick baskets off a turnover or long pass on the break.
    That's missing from the Spurs current roster, few easy break baskets because the team lacks overall athleticism.

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