Another school shooting?

[Leetonidas]

Hahah. No one cares about your history.

So you don't know wtf you're talking about and folded because you dont actually have a point. Glad we're on the same page now

[FrostKing]

You didn't answer the question.

True

Religion: gone
Family: <60%
Social norms: Debatable

[ChumpDumper]

True

Religion: gone
Family: <60%
Social norms: Debatable

You didn't answer the question.

[FrostKing]

So you don't know wtf you're talking about and folded because you dont actually have a point. Glad we're on the same page now

Huh. Why you so angry.

[Thread]

Huh. Why you so angry.

Good question. Lee?

[FrostKing]

You didn't answer the question.

I demand THE QUESTION

[monosylab1k]

Hahah. No one cares about your history.

The only Polish history anybody cares about is

1. The birth of Rob Gronkowski
2. How yall got your cheeks clapped by Hitler & Stalin back to back

[ChumpDumper]

I demand THE QUESTION

So when did religion get stripped? 200 years ago? when was there legislation passed that stripped family?

[FrostKing]

The only Polish history anybody cares about is

1. The birth of Rob Gronkowski
2. How yall got your cheeks clapped by Hitler & Stalin back to back

I yell Polska you ask which direction

[FrostKing]

Not sure why we are arguing especially inthis thread. Bye

[ChumpDumper]

Not sure why we are arguing especially inthis thread. Bye

You made a claim and were asked to back it up.

If that's too much for you to handle I'm not sure why you're here.

[DMC]

You’ll never prevent drunk drivers either, so why bother having a law against that, right?

Pretty sure the shooter knew he was breaking several laws that did nothing to stop him. It's illegal to drink and drive, but not illegal to drive to a place to get drunk at which point it's up to the drunk person to decide whether to drive or not. There's no law saying he cannot get drunk or that the establishment cannot sell him alcohol except for some ordinance about whether or not some barely legal server can tell if he's obviously had too many.

I've said it before, either go for a ban or accept what you get. Placebo laws about magazine size and evil features only appeases the gun ignorant crowd. But let's keep advertising the score and ranking of these killers so others out there can go for more. Let's turn the killer into a subculture folk hero.

[Thread]

You make every issue perfectly black or white as you cant handle gray areas.
I dont think anyone wants a total band on all guns. "We" hunt in this State.
Some of the most gun conscious citizens are people who own guns and actually want more laws because they see idiots in Texas with no license and open carry walking around making them all look like assholes.

So YOU, would feel better if the left would just total ban ALL guns. That would be standing up. Cool.

Also with all of the solutions above a designated govt office will have to know more about people who own guns. But Amazon and Google etc... already know too much! "You have no right to sneak into my business and know that I love good do entaries on ..." If it got bad enough with knowing everything about someone who owned a gun then the ACLU gets involved... Ive heard that as well, just like prohibiting certain types of parades.
Imo we have the general group that are into killing large groups of innocents in the US. Young socially isolated males... FBI knows this.
So to go further than just the general number of rounds, type of weapon, etc... how do we pay more attention to the group that by far and away commits these obscene acts...?

True. Your side taught me that---that edification has proved invaluable. Give no quarter. Ask nary.

There is no victory in the "gray areas." None. It's fool's gold. We finally learned that when Trump took out Clinton. And we, well, at least me ain't ever goin' back. Uh, uh.

If you're given an inch, you'll take the entire mile, that's all your side knows, peeg. So, you ain't gettin' the inch here. No in' way. Me? I don't do guns. It's my religion. I was born under a lucky star and so it enables me to eschew them. But guns are only the standard bearer here, the hill to defend like no other and I will smite thee with everything I got...like Creed vows in -IV- ..."No-matter-what."

[ChumpDumper]

DMC never says what HE wants.

So passive.

[spurraider21]

DMC's "you have to ban guns entirely or not do anything at all" false dichotomy back in action

[Thread]

DMC never says what HE wants.

So passive.

And you're totally in love with him, Dumper. No, not sexually, dummy, but in the admiration scope.

It's adorable to watch.

[Splits]

I will be happy to address your suggestions point by point. I am trying to discuss this rationally and not just taking an absolute pro gun position.

Every gun owner must take federally mandated training, tailored to the gun they own, includes mental health check. Must repeat every 2 years

OK. There is an estimated 400 million guns currently in the US. There are an estimated 82 million gun owners over 18 in the US. This doesn't count family members of these gun owners which puts the number at 130 million. Will there be a charge for this course? Will the federal government provide the classrooms and instructors for these 130 million people every two years? will they provide mental health professionals to evaluate these 130 million people every two years? If this is not provided for free, won't it be discriminatory against lower income people?

30 day waiting period on new gun purchases

Private gun sales must go through federal broker, also subject to 30 day waiting period
This sounds nice in theory. What do you about inherited guns? what is the penalty if an individual sells a gun to their friend? Misdemeanor? Felony? How many new prisons will we need?

Ban clips larger than 10, confiscate anything larger

Again, what is your enforcement? misdemeanor? Felony?

Limit ammo purchases everywhere except shooting ranges. Can rent larger clips at the shooting range. Cannot take ammo or large clips from shooting ranges home with you

I have seen guys shoot 8 boxes of shotgun s s(200 rounds) trying to get their limit hunting doves. I personally have shot hundreds of rounds in a weekend prairie dog hunting in West Texas. Where exactly do you draw this ammo possession limit? Again, what is the penalty

Raise minimum age of gun ownership to 21

Is this for purchasing a gun or using an existing gun? My kids all were taught how to use guns at an early age. Again, what is the penalty? Are you gonna put a 12 year old in jail for dove hunting?

Must carry gun insurance. Insurance company financially liable for any crime committed with said gun.

An absolute impossible demand and would be absolutely discriminatory to lower incomes and minorities

Gun owners are criminally liable if their gun is used in a crime and they are shown to have not properly protected it (locked in safe for example)

I have all my guns in a safe when not being used but many people can't afford a $1000+ safe. Also, many guns are stolen out of cars by criminals. How can you hold a crime victim legally liable for the use of the gun after it isn't in their possession anymore?

Ban military-style protective armor

I'm OK with that but how significant is it really?

OK. There is an estimated 400 million guns currently in the US. There are an estimated 82 million gun owners over 18 in the US. This doesn't count family members of these gun owners which puts the number at 130 million. Will there be a charge for this course? Will the federal government provide the classrooms and instructors for these 130 million people every two years? will they provide mental health professionals to evaluate these 130 million people every two years? If this is not provided for free, won't it be discriminatory against lower income people?

Of course you have to pay for it, and it covers the cost of the facilities, courses and mental health professionals. It will be expensive, it will discriminate against lower income people, which is true for many many many things. That's the primary feature, not a bug. The more guns you own, the more expensive it is. Make gun ownership a high bar.

This sounds nice in theory. What do you about inherited guns? what is the penalty if an individual sells a gun to their friend? Misdemeanor? Felony? How many new prisons will we need?

Penalties can be negotiated. Inherited guns might be an exception.

Again, what is your enforcement? misdemeanor? Felony?

Penalties can be negotiated. Escalate for repeat offenders, just like any other law i.e. DUI


I have seen guys shoot 8 boxes of shotgun s s(200 rounds) trying to get their limit hunting doves. I personally have shot hundreds of rounds in a weekend prairie dog hunting in West Texas. Where exactly do you draw this ammo possession limit? Again, what is the penalty

I'm not a hunter or an expert in this field, so leave the actual numbers to negotiation based on ammo type. What's the most 12 gauge rounds you can put in a shotgun? Probably not 30 and fire them off 1 per second. I assume you prairie dog hunt with a low caliber round like a 22. Can buy more of those that .223s that shred and explode organs and limbs coming out of an AR-15. I'm sure we can make a distinction between hunting rounds and non-hunting rounds. Penalties to be negotiated

Is this for purchasing a gun or using an existing gun? My kids all were taught how to use guns at an early age. Again, what is the penalty? Are you gonna put a 12 year old in jail for dove hunting?

Purchasing. If you're under 21 and supervised by a parent, guardian, or authorized gun owner no issue.

An absolute impossible demand and would be absolutely discriminatory to lower incomes and minorities

Feature, not a bug. Make gun ownership a high-bar.

I have all my guns in a safe when not being used but many people can't afford a $1000+ safe. Also, many guns are stolen out of cars by criminals. How can you hold a crime victim legally liable for the use of the gun after it isn't in their possession anymore?

Feature, not a bug. Make gun ownership a high-bar of entry.
I'm OK with that but how significant is it really?

While not preventative, it will reduce casualties


You're just proving my point this is all extremely doable. You disagree because you think anyone should basically be able to own as many guns and as much ammo as they can afford, as cheaply as possible.

[DMC]

You make every issue perfectly black or white as you cant handle gray areas.
I dont think anyone wants a total band on all guns. "We" hunt in this State.
Some of the most gun conscious citizens are people who own guns and actually want more laws because they see idiots in Texas with no license and open carry walking around making them all look like assholes.

So YOU, would feel better if the left would just total ban ALL guns. That would be standing up. Cool.

Also with all of the solutions above a designated govt office will have to know more about people who own guns. But Amazon and Google etc... already know too much! "You have no right to sneak into my business and know that I love good do entaries on ..." If it got bad enough with knowing everything about someone who owned a gun then the ACLU gets involved... Ive heard that as well, just like prohibiting certain types of parades.
Imo we have the general group that are into killing large groups of innocents in the US. Young socially isolated males... FBI knows this.
So to go further than just the general number of rounds, type of weapon, etc... how do we pay more attention to the group that by far and away commits these obscene acts...?

Obviously by getting online and talking to like minded people in our echo chamber safe spaces. I think as long as we feel good about ourselves and can cultivate more discussions amongst people not even remotely related to these events, we can grow as a nation. Oh, and better memes.

[spurraider21]

the only way we can address school shootings

[Thread]

DMC's "you have to ban guns entirely or not do anything at all" false dichotomy back in action

That's the tact we have to assume in our battle stance...otherwise you'll bull rush us and we'll be sittin' here with our s in our hands & nary a gun. You? Your side? You'll be sittin' over there other side of the room skinnin' & grinnin' to the beat the band. Uh, uh. No way, Jose'. We ain't goin' backPERIOD

[Winehole23]

Obviously by getting online and talking to like minded people in our echo chamber safe spaces. I think as long as we feel good about ourselves and can cultivate more discussions amongst people not even remotely related to these events, we can grow as a nation. Oh, and better memes.

what do you think current events bulletin boards are for, profe?

only you would mistake discussion for political organizing.

[DMC]

Also the gun and rights ignorant crowd should educate themselves before entering discussions where these technical issues are discussed. It's a waste of time to discuss these things with people who think a .223 is dangerous but a 7 mag is a hunting round.

[DMC]

what do you think current events bulletin boards are for, profe?

only you would mistake discussion for political organizing.

Now you read my post?

This isn't the 1st mass shooting, not the first discussion on this forum. How much political organizing was generated from all of it? How much have you done?

[ChumpDumper]

DMC's meltdown

Why is he posting?

[CosmicCowboy]

OK. There is an estimated 400 million guns currently in the US. There are an estimated 82 million gun owners over 18 in the US. This doesn't count family members of these gun owners which puts the number at 130 million. Will there be a charge for this course? Will the federal government provide the classrooms and instructors for these 130 million people every two years? will they provide mental health professionals to evaluate these 130 million people every two years? If this is not provided for free, won't it be discriminatory against lower income people?

Of course you have to pay for it, and it covers the cost of the facilities, courses and mental health professionals. It will be expensive, it will discriminate against lower income people, which is true for many many many things. That's the primary feature, not a bug. The more guns you own, the more expensive it is. Make gun ownership a high bar.

This sounds nice in theory. What do you about inherited guns? what is the penalty if an individual sells a gun to their friend? Misdemeanor? Felony? How many new prisons will we need?

Penalties can be negotiated. Inherited guns might be an exception.

Again, what is your enforcement? misdemeanor? Felony?

Penalties can be negotiated. Escalate for repeat offenders, just like any other law i.e. DUI


I have seen guys shoot 8 boxes of shotgun s s(200 rounds) trying to get their limit hunting doves. I personally have shot hundreds of rounds in a weekend prairie dog hunting in West Texas. Where exactly do you draw this ammo possession limit? Again, what is the penalty

I'm not a hunter or an expert in this field, so leave the actual numbers to negotiation based on ammo type. What's the most 12 gauge rounds you can put in a shotgun? Probably not 30 and fire them off 1 per second. I assume you prairie dog hunt with a low caliber round like a 22. Can buy more of those that .223s that shred and explode organs and limbs coming out of an AR-15. I'm sure we can make a distinction between hunting rounds and non-hunting rounds. Penalties to be negotiated

Is this for purchasing a gun or using an existing gun? My kids all were taught how to use guns at an early age. Again, what is the penalty? Are you gonna put a 12 year old in jail for dove hunting?

Purchasing. If you're under 21 and supervised by a parent, guardian, or authorized gun owner no issue.

An absolute impossible demand and would be absolutely discriminatory to lower incomes and minorities

Feature, not a bug. Make gun ownership a high-bar.

I have all my guns in a safe when not being used but many people can't afford a $1000+ safe. Also, many guns are stolen out of cars by criminals. How can you hold a crime victim legally liable for the use of the gun after it isn't in their possession anymore?

Feature, not a bug. Make gun ownership a high-bar of entry.
I'm OK with that but how significant is it really?

While not preventative, it will reduce casualties


You're just proving my point this is all extremely doable. You disagree because you think anyone should basically be able to own as many guns and as much ammo as they can afford, as cheaply as possible.

Sorry, but your snobby elitist "make gun ownership an expensive high bar" will absolutely be discriminatory and will result in disproportionate enforcement and criminalization of the poor and minorities. The very people that live in ty criminal infested neighborhoods that could use home protection would be denied access and or criminalized for trying to protect their families. It's a total non starter.