Rank the Patriots escape jobs

[spurraider21]

Theoretically if my aunt had a she'd be my uncle. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing or are you agreeing with his statement that the team that was dead last in YPC is tough to run against?

except the actually have the talent up front

The logic in MM's post boiled down: if muh Cowboys couldn't run against them then NO ONE CAN

i think you can factor in recent performance though. wasn't the colts defense historically ty before their superbowl run when they played great throughout? bob sanders was a good player but not THAT good to completely lift a struggling defense

ive already picked the pats to win by 2 scores... so im not saying i think their run game will get shut down. just saying his argument isn't completely bananas because we've seen these stories before and they do have elite talent

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yet again you're talking out of your ass.

During the regular season the Rams were dead last in the NFL yards allowed per carry ( only team to give up north of 5 YPC) and they gave up the 10th most rushing yards per game (which is pretty ty considering how much they were up by multiple possessions and forcing teams to go pass heavy against them).

Do you have any actual facts to back up "Rams are tough to run against" or 'night and day compared to KC" ( what a stupid ing comment), or are you just assuming it's the case because your ty ass Cowboys couldn't get any run game going against them?

Neither could the Saints, for the most part. They've been excellent in the playoffs.

[Will Hunting]

except the actually have the talent up front

The talent they may or may not have isn't responsive to whether or not you agree with his statements that they're "tough to run against" or that they're "night and day with Kansas City". Both of those comments would imply that their run defense has performed well, not that they have talent up front with the potential to perform well.

i think you can factor in recent performance though. wasn't the colts defense historically ty before their superbowl run when they played great throughout? bob sanders was a good player but not THAT good to completely lift a struggling defense

He was 1st team all pro the year prior and the year after, so I think getting the best strong safety in the NFL back actually does make a run defense that much better.

You had to look back more than 10 years to find an example of a team that got significantly better against the run after being horrible against it during the regular season, and the example included the best player on the defense coming back from injury.

ive already picked the pats to win by 2 scores... so im not saying i think their run game will get shut down. just saying his argument isn't completely bananas because we've seen these stories before and they do have elite talent

He didn't make an argument. He made a statement that the Rams are "tough to run against" and that they're "night and day with Kansas City". There was no argument or basis behind it.

If the Rams were getting the best strong safety in the NFL back from injury prior to the SB, I'd concede their run D would be tough.

[Will Hunting]

Neither could the Saints, for the most part. They've been excellent in the playoffs.

So a 2 game sample size of good run D is enough to erase 16 games of and declare the Rams elite against the run?

The Saints offense took a in both playoff games. They also had 3 linemen playing through injuries. The Patriots' offensive line is as healthy as its been all season.

No one (at least not me) is saying that they'll be able to run the ball down LA's throat the way they did to KC for two entire drives before they needed to call any pass plays, but the notion that they need to develop a one dimensional pass happy offense against the run stopping juggernaut that gave up over 5 YPC during the regular season is re ed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

So a 2 game sample size of good run D is enough to erase 16 games of and declare the Rams elite against the run?

The Saints offense took a in both playoff games. They also had 3 linemen playing through injuries. The Patriots' offensive line is as healthy as its been all season.

No one (at least not me) is saying that they'll be able to run the ball down LA's throat the way they did to KC for two entire drives before they needed to call any pass plays, but the notion that they need to develop a one dimensional pass happy offense against the run stopping juggernaut that gave up over 5 YPC during the regular season is re ed.

I don't think either Michel nor Burkhead will be factors in the run game. White could bite, though. The Rams defend the A and B gaps in the run game very well because you're running at either Suh or Donald and then there's Brockers in the mix as well. The Pats' chance to be successful in the run game if they run those outside zone off tackle, pitch toss type plays because now you're putting the onus on guys named Ebukam, Littleton or Fowler instead of their best players in the front 7.

[spurraider21]

You had to look back more than 10 years to find an example of a team that got significantly better against the run after being horrible against it during the regular season, and the example included the best player on the defense coming back from injury

i get you.

but that's just the most prominent example that was off the top of my head, i haven't actually gone back and looked at the last 10 years of playoff performances.

[Will Hunting]

I don't think either Michel nor Burkhead will be factors in the run game. White could bite, though. The Rams defend the A and B gaps in the run game very well because you're running at either Suh or Donald and then there's Brockers in the mix as well. The Pats' chance to be successful in the run game if they run those outside zone off tackle, pitch toss type plays because now you're putting the onus on guys named Ebukam, Littleton or Fowler instead of their best players in the front 7.

Do do you actually have stats to back up the claim they’re good at defending the A and B gap, or are you just claiming they are because Suh Donald and Brockers are household names? A team that gives up over 5 yards per carry probably isn’t great at defending between the tackles and forcing teams to run outside.

Littleton also made the pro bowl this year, not sure why it’d be a good idea to run at him, but since you don’t recognize his name it must be a lot easier than running at Suh (even though Suh has been a giant disappointment this year).

Its so obvious you’re simply basing how good their run defense is off of name recognition rather than how it’s actually performed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Do do you actually have stats to back up the claim they’re good at defending the A and B gap, or are you just claiming they are because Suh Donald and Brockers are household names? A team that gives up over 5 yards per carry probably isn’t great at defending between the tackles and forcing teams to run outside.

Littleton also made the pro bowl this year, not sure why it’d be a good idea to run at him, but since you don’t recognize his name it must be a lot easier than running at Suh (even though Suh has been a giant disappointment this year).

Its so obvious you’re simply basing how good their run defense is off of name recognition rather than how it’s actually performed.

Just like in the NBA, in the NFL the stars are the most important chess pieces by far in the regular season. Exhibit A... Dez Bryant, who absolutely sucked in 2016 all regular season, but balled out in the playoff game against Green Bay. The biggest names play their best football in the playoffs. There's tons of examples of veteran stars that sandbag the regular season only to prove their legacy when it really matters.

Suh has been nothing short of awesome against the run in both playoff games.


And don't tell me losing Kareem Hunt wasn't a huge factor last round. Chiefs couldn't really run the ball all game.

[Will Hunting]

Just like in the NBA, in the NFL the stars are the most important chess pieces by far in the regular season. Exhibit A... Dez Bryant, who absolutely sucked in 2016 all regular season, but balled out in the playoff game against Green Bay. The biggest names play their best football in the playoffs. There's tons of examples of veteran stars that sandbag the regular season only to prove their legacy when it really matters.

Suh has been nothing short of awesome against the run in both playoff games.


And don't tell me losing Kareem Hunt wasn't a huge factor last round. Chiefs couldn't really run the ball all game.

More vague jibberish about how “stars step up in the playoffs”. What evidence is there that Suh and Brockers were sandbagging the regular season? There’s plenty of examples of stars who get worse in the playoffs (Watt).

Dez Bryant had one injury after another during the regular season in 2016 and got healthy for the playoffs, it’s not like he just miraculously started playing better or was being lazy in the regular season.

Suh has been good going up against a ty Dallas offense with no passing game to worry and a Saints offensive line that was playing through injuries and was calling awful plays. We’ll see how he does when he actually has to worry about misdirection and a passing game.

I also have no idea how Kareem Hunt is relevant to your argument. Kareem Hunt played well in the regular season and the running game clearly dropped off after he went down. I’m not saying that the Rams would be better without Suh or Brockers.

[Will Hunting]

MMs post about the Rams defense pre Cowboys game:

The LAR defense has only performed well against ty teams all year long. 2 of the very worst teams in sports (forget football) are in their own division. They've got a lot y names, but a lot of them are washed up, they have no good linebackers, and they're overall extremely overrated as a unit.

so when they’re playing the Cowboys, the big names are washed up, but when they’re playing the team MM has an unhealthy obsession with seeing lose, they’re all that matters and will step up big time.

Funny how that works out.

[Will Hunting]

meanwhile here’s his view on the Chiefs defense that he now thinks is horrible leading up to their game against the Pats:

Chiefs defense is really underrated IMO. Their corners are bad and their ranking is 31st but most of that has been because they've played prevent defenses with big leads all year long. They have one of the best pass rushes in the game with 3 legit Pro Bowl caliber pass rushers.

best pass rushes in the league
couldn’t even sack Brady once
didn’t even get 5 hurried on 40+ pass attempts
hopefully the Rams run defense is as good as “one of the best pass rushes in the game” was against Brady

[Millennial_Messiah]

meanwhile here’s his view on the Chiefs defense that he now thinks is horrible leading up to their game against the Pats:



best pass rushes in the league
couldn’t even sack Brady once
didn’t even get 5 hurried on 40+ pass attempts
hopefully the Rams run defense is as good as “one of the best pass rushes in the game” was against Brady

They couldn't sack Brady once because they got scared of the run and Gronk and played ty vanilla zone most of the game. Ford and Houston were very close on a couple of occasions but the ball came out just in the nick of time. Sutton 110% deserved the axe he got the other day, because he's trash and unwilling to take risks to get a sack or turnover when it counted most. The idea was that, if they could force the Patriots to 3rd down & not short multiple times each drive, that Brady would at some point make a mistake and the Chiefs defense would hold or get a sack...... but nope, they couldn't get off the field because they never had the balls to send a man blitz.

Sutton is an ass clown & it's about damn time they got rid of that jackass and now they need to draft some corners and a free safety, maybe an inside linebacker too. $9 Million a year for soft ass Anthony Hitchens ( who the Cowboys couldn't get rid of fast enough) was an all time godawful signing.

[Will Hunting]

They couldn't sack Brady once because they got scared of the run and Gronk and played ty vanilla zone most of the game. Ford and Houston were very close on a couple of occasions but the ball came out just in the nick of time. Sutton 110% deserved the axe he got the other day, because he's trash and unwilling to take risks to get a sack or turnover when it counted most. The idea was that, if they could force the Patriots to 3rd down & not short multiple times each drive, that Brady would at some point make a mistake and the Chiefs defense would hold or get a sack...... but nope, they couldn't get off the field because they never had the balls to send a man blitz.

Sutton is an ass clown & it's about damn time they got rid of that jackass and now they need to draft some corners and a free safety, maybe an inside linebacker too. $9 Million a year for soft ass Anthony Hitchens ( who the Cowboys couldn't get rid of fast enough) was an all time godawful signing.

You can justify it however you want, you knew that Sutton was the DC and you knew they had Anthony Hitchens when you said they had a great pass rush and were really underrated. You’re just flip flopping now and hyper reacting to one game.

ignoring the post where I reference your contradiction about the Rams defense.

[spurraider21]

damn. this is an evisceration

[Blake]

Sir Johnny viewing thread.

o Larry. How’s your frumpy wife doing?

he's dying to post

[Millennial_Messiah]

You can justify it however you want, you knew that Sutton was the DC and you knew they had Anthony Hitchens when you said they had a great pass rush and were really underrated. You’re just flip flopping now and hyper reacting to one game.

ignoring the post where I reference your contradiction about the Rams defense.

They had the most sacks in the league despite their lousy defensive rating, and three of their front four had double digit sacks, so I'm kind of right. But that's very similar to what the Giants had in 2007 and 2011, where there was nothing to write home about for them in the secondary or ILBs but their pass rush was God tier. So Spagnuolo should fit there.

[Will Hunting]

They had the most sacks in the league despite their lousy defensive rating, and three of their front four had double digit sacks, so I'm kind of right. But that's very similar to what the Giants had in 2007 and 2011, where there was nothing to write home about for them in the secondary or ILBs but their pass rush was God tier. So Spagnuolo should fit there.

still haven’t addressed what you said about the Rams pre divisional round
“kinda right”
opinions bouncing all over the place

[Millennial_Messiah]

still haven’t addressed what you said about the Rams pre divisional round
“kinda right”
opinions bouncing all over the place

I guess the thing that shocked me most about the Rams game other than the Cowboys not being able to run and the Rams running all over the place was that the crowd was surprisingly >80 percent pro-Rams. That had an ENORMOUS impact on the game. The thinking leading up to that weekend was that the crowd was going to be neutral or pro-Cowboys, but that was absolutely not the case... football fever is back in LA and back in a big way.

[Will Hunting]

I guess the thing that shocked me most about the Rams game other than the Cowboys not being able to run and the Rams running all over the place was that the crowd was surprisingly >80 percent pro-Rams. That had an ENORMOUS impact on the game. The thinking leading up to that weekend was that the crowd was going to be neutral or pro-Cowboys, but that was absolutely not the case... football fever is back in LA and back in a big way.

I thought the Rams were tough to run on though? That’s what you just said in this thread. Not sure why you’d be surprised a good run defense would stop Dallas.

The rest of this post as usual is incoherent rambling that doesn’t explain the complete flip flop you’ve done regarding the Rams defense.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I thought the Rams were tough to run on though? That’s what you just said in this thread. Not sure why you’d be surprised a good run defense would stop Dallas.

The rest of this post as usual is incoherent rambling that doesn’t explain the complete flip flop you’ve done regarding the Rams defense.

Rams defense sucked against the pass most of the year. However... they missed Talib for 10 games and since he's been back they've been much improved there. Talib really tends to give Brady problems. But there's not really a WR1 for Talib to cover, and as good as his cover skills are he's not going 1-on-1 with Gronk. Edelman? Not sure.

If I'm Belichick I'm airing it out and putting a heavy emphasis on short passes and passes over the middle, make them stop those before I do anything else.

[Will Hunting]

Rams defense sucked against the pass most of the year. However... they missed Talib for 10 games and since he's been back they've been much improved there. Talib really tends to give Brady problems. But there's not really a WR1 for Talib to cover, and as good as his cover skills are he's not going 1-on-1 with Gronk. Edelman? Not sure.

If I'm Belichick I'm airing it out and putting a heavy emphasis on short passes and passes over the middle, make them stop those before I do anything else.

avoiding the topic again and going off on a random tangent

[Millennial_Messiah]

avoiding the topic again and going off on a random tangent

The topic is... rank Pats escape jobs. It's tied between Deuce dropping back and getting sacked out of FG range, and not handing it to Lynch. The end.

[Will Hunting]

The topic is... rank Pats escape jobs. It's tied between Deuce dropping back and getting sacked out of FG range, and not handing it to Lynch. The end.

OK. I accept your concession.

[SpursforSix]

I don't think either Michel nor Burkhead will be factors in the run game. White could bite, though. The Rams defend the A and B gaps in the run game very well because you're running at either Suh or Donald and then there's Brockers in the mix as well. The Pats' chance to be successful in the run game if they run those outside zone off tackle, pitch toss type plays because now you're putting the onus on guys named Ebukam, Littleton or Fowler instead of their best players in the front 7.

That would be interesting to see. I don’t think Michele has the speed to consistently make the outside plays work.

[Millennial_Messiah]

That would be interesting to see. I don’t think Michele has the speed to consistently make the outside plays work.

Hence, "White could bite..."


James White is the Robert Horry/Steve Kerr of running backs