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  1. #201
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Sorry, man, I didn't realize your proposals were fake.
    Pretzel logic. My proposal is on, so I say it’s fake.

  2. #202
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    Sorry, man, I didn't realize your proposals were fake.

    (Jesus Christ, I just did it again. )
    Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.

  3. #203
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.
    Tbh they probably can’t either so don’t beat yourself up over it.

  4. #204
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    What does this mean? What has Simmons proven that he can do that any other guard on our team can't do, other than be scared to shoot the basketball and be so bad at free throw shooting that the hawks won a playoff series against the 76ers by going to hack a simmons? That you have to take him off the floor at the end of games against some teams because he doesn't make free throws, he doesn't threaten the defense, and really good players don't have any problems scoring against him so he doesn't even help your defense late in games.

    What am I missing? What exactly is Ben Simmons basketball talent other than being really tall for the position he desires to play, which is point guard?
    lol don't know how to respond to this because it's so obvious but provide some stats that show how any of our young spursies is in simmons' league, and i'll pay attention

  5. #205
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    lol don't know how to respond to this because it's so obvious but provide some stats that show how any of our young spursies is in simmons' league, and i'll pay attention
    Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

    Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

    Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?

  6. #206
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.
    Me neither.

  7. #207
    Spurs fan in Las Vegas Drom John's Avatar
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    Simmons and DeRozan are close when you factor everything in, but the things holding Ben back are theoretically workable. Him being younger and signed to a long-term deal are also things hugely in his favor.
    FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

    37) Danny Green, Royce O'Neal, Ben Simmons
    96) Jarrett Allen, Chris Boucher, DeMar DeRozan, Duncan Robinson, Domantis Sabonis, Christian Wood.

    DeRozan 3.6 Off; -2.9 Def.
    Simmons 0.7 Off; 1.8 Def.

  8. #208
    Believe. Em-City's Avatar
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    MT is more offensively ed than Simmons.
    At least he isn't scared of shooting the three.. isn't a mental midget, and doesn't have the contractual baggage of simmons. He would also probably have good trade value for a contender.

    He had a great Olympics and i can see him building off it if he gets minutes this season.

  9. #209
    Believe. Em-City's Avatar
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    Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

    Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

    Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?
    Murray is the one who is able to stay on the court in the 4th qtr

  10. #210
    Veteran spurs1990's Avatar
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    Ben Simmons a Spur? I just don’t see it.

    Ben was exposed league wide for the player that he is this past playoff season. What’s comical to me though…this is the exact same player that was game-planned against by the Celtics several seasons ago in the Playoffs. It was thought that the lack of shooting, poor roster construction was the issue (which is somewhat valid). This past season though, no excuse.

    You don’t build your team around a Draymond Green…Why do it for one sans a killer instinct?

    If that shoot around video is legit he'll soon be in the pantheon of hated Spurs franchise guys of which DeRozan is a single member.

    For those who want him this was his play that cemented Philly wanting to unload him. Not unlike Raptors wanting to dump DeRozan after his 4th Qt benching in the playoffs vs James and co.

    Of course we'll give him a chance as Spurs fans initially but based on his career thus far it's gonna be a long road for him to measure up to the haul the front office gives up for him.


  11. #211
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    guy is a fkn scrub, 5yrs in the league..yet doesnt have a jumpshot to rely on

    makes a dunk and screams like a like he did some meaningful to the scoreboard...

  12. #212
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    I just don't want the guy. Multiple reasons but at the end of the day, he is not as compe ive as any of the guys we would have to give up to get him. Maybe he changes, I am not willing to ship out talent and pay him his salary for his lack of heart.

  13. #213
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I just don't want the guy. Multiple reasons but at the end of the day, he is not as compe ive as any of the guys we would have to give up to get him. Maybe he changes, I am not willing to ship out talent and pay him his salary for his lack of heart.
    Just remember fur every sixers playoff failure, he was the scape goat for simply not fitting with Embid. From the sounds of this, sixers locker room is a mess.

  14. #214
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

    Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

    Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?
    The one with far superior advanced stats. You left out (flawed) plusminus too btw

  15. #215
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The one with far superior advanced stats. You left out (flawed) plusminus too btw
    Far superior? Plenty of advanced stats, especially https://www.bball-index.com/ have DJ and Simmons impact very close FWIW.

  16. #216
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

    Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

    Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?
    FT% kind of give it away tbh

    But in all seriousness I really agree with this. I think the ONLY thing you can reasonably say Simmons does better than DM is guard the 4-5. Some people on here are ready to sell the farm for a slightly taller Murray.

  17. #217
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    FT% kind of give it away tbh

    But in all seriousness I really agree with this. I think the ONLY thing you can reasonably say Simmons does better than DM is guard the 4-5. Some people on here are ready to sell the farm for a slightly taller Murray.
    He does several things better probably, but the question is his impact so much greater than Murrays along with DJ coming into a more prominent role, worth giving up a lot for?

    It gets pretty damn murky IMO and depends on how much you think Ben can make a leap. He’s still fine if he doesn’t leap, but if that gap keeps closing because Murray keeps improving then the impact Murray has on winning (when surrounded by good players like Ben was) means that SA shouldn’t be giving up too much IMO

  18. #218
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    Imagine what would happen when Ben Simmons refuses to take a dunk in the 4th quarter of a game 7 for San Antonio

    Big time shoulder rubs from Pop, just like whenever Forbes was a 4th quarter disaster.

    I can kind of see it now, lol. Murray has too much fire, Simmons has the right kind of no-threes, no-twos, no-free-throws dribble dribble dribble game that Pop might be going for

  19. #219
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Far superior? Plenty of advanced stats, especially https://www.bball-index.com/ have DJ and Simmons impact very close FWIW.
    paywall sorry

    dejounte took a big leap last year; simmons had a subpar year last year, and simmons is still far ahead.

    simmons also is physically superior. people are counting on dejounte to keep on getting better but there's no guarantee he'll ever be better than simmons is right now ... and if spurs do trade for simmons it would be betting that he can sort out his glaring weaknesses (in spite of which, he remains way better than any of the spurs yoof)

  20. #220
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    don't get me wrong. i'm not super-high on ben. i'm just relatively down on the spurs youngsters, compared to most on this board

  21. #221
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    paywall sorry

    dejounte took a big leap last year; simmons had a subpar year last year, and simmons is still far ahead.

    simmons also is physically superior. people are counting on dejounte to keep on getting better but there's no guarantee he'll ever be better than simmons is right now ... and if spurs do trade for simmons it would be betting that he can sort out his glaring weaknesses (in spite of which, he remains way better than any of the spurs yoof)
    You keep saying that but I literally posted the raw per 36 numbers and a link to advanced stats that LITERALLY say he was not “far” ahead. Especially on impact stats.

    One could argue that while Simmons had a subpar year, he also played in a far weaker conference, alongside an MVP level player and better all around team to make things a lot easier for him.

    Agree on the part that DJ may never be better than Simmons is now; but that’s not really the question here. It’s how much does SA give up for someone who right now isn’t light years ahead already? And will the gap close more or will Simmons finally improve his game and stop relying strictly on the talent he came into the league with.

    That’s a tough question.

  22. #222
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    You keep saying that but I literally posted the raw per 36 numbers and a link to advanced stats that LITERALLY say he was not “far” ahead. Especially on impact stats.
    win share rank -- ben 39 dejounte 131
    vorp rank - ben 38 dejounte 69
    per rank - ben 53 dejounte 76
    bpm rank - ben 40 dejounte 77

    i looked at the LEBRON ratings and yes they have ben being better on D and dejounte being better on O and them evening out

    otoh 538's RAPTOR ratings has ben being equal on O and far superior on D

    so unless you are talking strictly about LEBRON ... ben is unquestionably a tier above dejounte (with a far higher hypothetical ceiling imo)

  23. #223
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Point being I think it’s obvious with the situation that SA is in, they should absolutely be doing their due diligence on situations like Simmons or any other “star” that may be available. But they also need to tread lightly for “stars” like Simmons that come with so many question marks.

    They need to stick to a firm offer and if that can’t get it done, walk away and protect the franchise. But I am fine with taking a swing on Simmons even if its not my preferred path. But I would understand it and support it and be excited to see what happens. But only if the cost is reasonable (which is a very debatable and subjective thing at the moment).

    Again - for me it would need to be something like Murray - Thad - Jakob - CHI 1st and maybe another lottery protected 1st. But that is like my max offer I can understand.

  24. #224
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    win share rank -- ben 39 dejounte 131
    vorp rank - ben 38 dejounte 69
    per rank - ben 53 dejounte 76
    bpm rank - ben 40 dejounte 77

    i looked at the LEBRON ratings and yes they have ben being better on D and dejounte being better on O and them evening out

    otoh 538's RAPTOR ratings has ben being equal on O and far superior on D

    so unless you are talking strictly about LEBRON ... ben is unquestionably a tier above dejounte (with a far higher hypothetical ceiling imo)
    You can be quasi far apart in rankings but in reality the gap is very close. And yes, I do place a little more emphasis on LEBRON right now personally; I think it’s a nice stat.

  25. #225
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    But of course I am not saying DJ>Simmons. I am simply saying DJ has been steadily closing the gap, he’s about to get his first role as a leading guy (he has gotten minutes and stuff but there is no real high usage guy in front of him now) and that there is real risk with Ben.

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