I mean, he is the undisputed goat
... he was drafted by Pistons?
2004 - Detroit won without LeBron
2005 - Pistons lost tough 7 game series vs Spurs. They win with LeBron
2006 - Pistons go past Miami and win vs Mavericks with LeBron
2007 - it's gets tougher, but I think Pistons still win it all
2008 and 2009 - Lebron signs new contract, so it's tougher to say what happens next. Pistons in rebuild mode. Possible 2 more rings
So, LeBron gets at least 4 rings in his first 6 years. Great start.
Darko would bring a le to Cleveland and be regarded as the undisputed Kang
And if he did that and the others without help from the refs? Sure.
But reality being what it is....
Not even top three
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
James is a peripatetic and likely PED 4-6 finals non GOAT who is nothing but a BSPN created non GOAT
I was the biggest Lebron hater before he joined LA, even i had him as an easy top 5 entry, arguably top 3, after he beat Golden State in 2016.
Still think MJ is the GOAT but the case can definitely be made for Lebron, if he gets #5 and reaches #1 in all time points total.
'13 Spurs, '16 Warriors and '21 Nets are better than anything MJ ever faced in the playoffs tbh.
Well, I think we can make the case that he has the best career ever... or right there with Kareem.
But as far as being the GOAT, he has too many faceplants for that to even be possible, tbh.
And let's picture MJ doing what Lebron has been effectively doing...so he leaves the Bulls after the 98 le and instead of retiring, he signs with the Rockets or Blazers and they go back-to-back. Now he has 8 rings and it's just getting down right ridiculous at this point. But I'm sure the stat sheet holders would still try and make a case for their guy, Lebron.
You could argue top 5.
My top 10 goes something like this:
1.) MJ
2.) Kareem
3.) Wilt
4.) Duncan
5.) Russell
6.) Bird
7.) Magic
8.) Lebron
9.) Shaq
10.) Dream
I never hear people outside this site ever even considering this.
And Duncan came into the NBA polished and ready to win right away.
Bizarre.
MJ hit too many clutch shots, has too many iconic moments and has a cultural impact both on and off the court that Lebron will never be able to match.
Like you said, if you go purely by numbers, the case for Lebron can be made.
1997 Rockets would defeat those Warriors or these Nets and they couldn't even crack the Finals in that Era
The Bulls were stacked, why would he go anywhere else?
It's just funny how cir stances that players can't control impact their legacy and perception
Lebron became the undisputed goat the second he joined the lakers.
not remotely similar situations considering mike had a competent coach and FO to build an elite team with excellent chemistry in chicago, compared to the mediocre talent bron got in cleveland along with no hope for the future due to a bunch of terrible contracts given out
could easily argue that if lebron was drafted into a situation like mike or steph where an elite team was built around him from the get-go, that he could already have had 5-6 rings in cleveland alone before 2019
He brought one single le to Cleveland. And numerous beat downs. Leonard accomplished the same in Canada at a fraction of the time.
he also came into the NBA playing for a team that had averaged 59 wins for 3 seasons before tanking for a year to get him
aside from him and magic, not sure any elite player has ever been drafted into such good situations
yeah because thats a very comparable situation
lol 21 nets mentioned in the same sentence as the 16 warriors
The jazz are the best team in the NBA and the nyets arent even leading the Eastern standings. Really the top of the NBA is very pedestrian records, looks more like pro baseball at this point. Gone are the days of teams trying to win in the high 60s and chase 70 wins. I get that it's a shortened season but the same concept still applies, i.e. in 2011-12 it was shortened but the top teams had much higher win %'s.
I think the 16 warriors and how that outcome turned out, winning 73 games but losing the big prize, really lead to the modern load management era league of "meh regular season don't matter" which honestly sucks for the game and greatly reduces the significance of the regular season compared to past eras, almost like it's baseball.
Because he took a stand in the 98 offseason saying he didn't want to play for anybody but Phil. So let's say he and Doug Collins end up in Houston or Portland the same way they did in D.C. years later...In this scenario, it just get's down right ridiculous in favor of MJ as undisputed GOAT.
No doubt MJ had a much more favorable situation than Lebron did. But Lebron also had something to do with some of those bad contracts. He's always tried to play GM and Cleveland went after every shiny object that became available in order to appease him.
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