Another school shooting?

[monosylab1k]

[DarrinS]

At the end of the day, someone with a gun ended it.

[Blake]

And then when there's a fire and kids are killed, have two doors...... Or even three

[monosylab1k]

At the end of the day, someone with a gun ended it.

Keep that same energy if it happens to your family

[Trill Clinton]

Damn

[ducks]

Obama clobbered for linking Uvalde massacre to two-year mark of George Floyd's murder



Wow he learned nothing at school

[ducks]

What the heck
Do you think parents care what happened to Floyd tonight ?

[DMC]

That's not "problem solved". Mental health can onset at different times in life. This was a 18 years old, some other people don't act up until some crisis in their 40s. That's why it needs to be periodic. This is where the left goes overbudget. They cannot possibly get support for this.

why? what makes a waiting period illegal or unenforceable? What is the wait time for? This is what I asked. What happens in 30 days that doesn't happen in 5 days? Does the ATF need more time to conduct a background check? I didn't say it was illegal or unenforceable. I said there needs to be a reason..

Correct. Military personnel undergoes extensive training and are evaluated before entering the force and handed a gun. This requirement can be revisited if former-military.
Extensive training in killing more efficiently. They do not undergo LEO type training but even then it's not to have more respect for human lives. Basically if you're not mature enough to own a firearm you're not mature enough to carry one in war.

Not silly at all. You want to have an arsenal, pony up. Pricing an entire lower income segment out of their rights sounds like a real democrat ticket winner

Not if the federal government also brokers private sales. Anything in the black market wouldn't be different than now, and would get charged as they do now There's over 400m guns in circulation now, none but NFA weapons on a national registry. What's your solution for getting those 400m under a tracking system and how do you propose it gets enforced other than saying "It's the law"? Person A owns an unregistered firearm and sells to person B. Now person B owns an unregistered firearm. There's no record this sale took place, and no way to ever prosecute since there's no traceability of the firearm.

There's certainly a logic to it, makes putting down these clowns easier for both armed civilians and LEO. So there are too many mass shootings so the answer is to outlaw passive body protection to make killing people easier. Doesn't sound logical.

red

[DMX7]

And then when there's a fire and kids are killed, have two doors...... Or even three

As if these kinds of murders only happen at schools and not also at church, movie theaters, Wal-Mart etc.

But let’s not kid ourselves, Ted isn’t looking for answers. He’s just trying to run out the clock…. to buy time for outrage to die down and for people to move on until the next senseless tragedy strikes.

[DMX7]

What else would you expect?

[diego]

1. Every gun owner must take federally mandated training, tailored to the gun they own, includes mental health check. Must repeat every 2 years or just serve and qualify, problem solved --- sure, if you're military, waiver could be considered. But a mental health check would still be required. Because, you know "MENTAL HEALTH"
2. ​
3. 30 day waiting period on new gun purchases this needs to have a reason. the current wait is for background checks - 30 days would prevent most mass shootings, see Uvalde
4. Private gun sales must go through federal broker, also subject to 30 day waiting period Then it's not a private gun sale if another FFL has to broker it. Also unenforceable - GREAT! IF unenforceable, just outlaw it. I was trying to be accomadable, but if it doesn't work just ban private sales!
5. Ban clips larger than 10, confiscate anything larger Most clips only hold 4 rounds. I think you mean magazines which your suggestion is unenforceable since they aren't serialized or recorded and 10's of millions exist already, but if you meant clips then sure, I'm all for the Mauser and Steyr having limited capacity clips. LMAO CLIPS MAGAZINES who gives a about terminology. No more than 10 bullets without reloading. How about that?
6. ​
7. Limit ammo purchases everywhere except shooting ranges. Can rent larger clips at the shooting range. Cannot take ammo or large clips from shooting ranges home with you Ammo purchases have been limited for over a year, 2 boxes per person. Uh huh. Define a "box"
8. ​
9. Raise minimum age of gun ownership to 21 So military folks can bomb cities, fire off AA and miniguns and even get shot but cannot own a firearm personally. Absou inglutely signing a contract with the military and fulfilling service completely differentiates.

1. Must carry gun insurance. Insurance company financially liable for any crime committed with said gun The insurance would have to be personal insurance, not gun insurance. Else for every gun you'd need another policy. This is silly. This would not prevent mass shootings.
2. ​Good. For every gun you own, it gets more expensive. Doesn't hurt the single white female who wants to self protect, hurts the small preppers like you
   
3. ​
4. Gun owners are criminally liable if their gun is used in a crime, or accidental shooting by a child, and they are shown to have not properly protected it (locked in safe for example) You'd need to enact a federal registry to know who owned what gun
5. PERFECT
6. Ban military-style protective armor This makes no sense. You have no logical reason to ban people from owning and wearing bullet resistant clothing, and no way to police the sale or ownership of it
7. ​Oh it makes total sense, the only people who want that are a threat

what are carry laws in the US?
I know about open, concealed carry and that it varies state to state, but do they also limit how many guns and in what firing condition?
Here you can only carry one unloaded gun, and you have to register where your safes are, you cant have your unloaded gun in another city if you dont have a safe registered there (a friend got busted for this, just from having his gun loaded in his backpack during a motorcycle accident- fine and licence and weapon impounded for 2 years), which is probably too much to ask from the US, but just limiting the number of guns you can carry makes it easier for cops to enforce private sales. I wonder what enthusiasts prefer, ban private sales outright or put more limits on how you can carry?

I think the insurance angle has the most potential, but I think it might be better still as a tax that is used to fund mental health surveillance at schools and with gun owners, plus like a sort of VA for victims... and maybe its more important to tax the ammo than the guns themselves, people here hunt and Im not familiar enough to know what specific ammo they use but Im sure the ammo selection here is much more limited and less powerful, either by laws or market forces, that could also be an effective way to reduce the danger of these shootings. Of course, "enthusiasts" will hate these ideas but they work in other places. And you can still go to a range or on a safari and use your fancy stuff there..

[DMC]

1. Every gun owner must take federally mandated training, tailored to the gun they own, includes mental health check. Must repeat every 2 years or just serve and qualify, problem solved --- sure, if you're military, waiver could be considered. But a mental health check would still be required. Because, you know "MENTAL HEALTH"
2. ​
3. 30 day waiting period on new gun purchases this needs to have a reason. the current wait is for background checks - 30 days would prevent most mass shootings, see Uvalde
4. Private gun sales must go through federal broker, also subject to 30 day waiting period Then it's not a private gun sale if another FFL has to broker it. Also unenforceable - GREAT! IF unenforceable, just outlaw it. I was trying to be accomadable, but if it doesn't work just ban private sales!
5. Ban clips larger than 10, confiscate anything larger Most clips only hold 4 rounds. I think you mean magazines which your suggestion is unenforceable since they aren't serialized or recorded and 10's of millions exist already, but if you meant clips then sure, I'm all for the Mauser and Steyr having limited capacity clips. LMAO CLIPS MAGAZINES who gives a about terminology. No more than 10 bullets without reloading. How about that?
6. ​
7. Limit ammo purchases everywhere except shooting ranges. Can rent larger clips at the shooting range. Cannot take ammo or large clips from shooting ranges home with you Ammo purchases have been limited for over a year, 2 boxes per person. Uh huh. Define a "box"
8. ​
9. Raise minimum age of gun ownership to 21 So military folks can bomb cities, fire off AA and miniguns and even get shot but cannot own a firearm personally. Absou inglutely signing a contract with the military and fulfilling service completely differentiates.

1. Must carry gun insurance. Insurance company financially liable for any crime committed with said gun The insurance would have to be personal insurance, not gun insurance. Else for every gun you'd need another policy. This is silly. This would not prevent mass shootings.
2. ​Good. For every gun you own, it gets more expensive. Doesn't hurt the single white female who wants to self protect, hurts the small preppers like you
   
3. ​
4. Gun owners are criminally liable if their gun is used in a crime, or accidental shooting by a child, and they are shown to have not properly protected it (locked in safe for example) You'd need to enact a federal registry to know who owned what gun
5. PERFECT
6. Ban military-style protective armor This makes no sense. You have no logical reason to ban people from owning and wearing bullet resistant clothing, and no way to police the sale or ownership of it
7. ​Oh it makes total sense, the only people who want that are a threat

1. The military already conducts mental health screening
2. Not sure what your character means there.
3. Why 30 days? If you could go back in time and change the 5 days to 30 right before the purchase, sure, because the plan was made for a 5 day wait. In our current time line, you have to assume the shooter is aware of the wait and is OK with it, or they get a gun elsewhere.
4. You can ban all day. Without traceability via national registry, you cannot tie a firearm to a firearm owner once the 1st p2p sale happens ergo you cannot enforce or prosecute. This was part of the FOPA.
5. If you want it in a law it matters. This is why ARs continued to be sold in California even after the assault weapons ban. The manufacturer used the lack of understanding of terminology by the legislators and just changed some features, and just like they they no longer classified as being the same weapon the law referred to. However, how long does it take to rerack a magazine? The 10 round suggestion didn't work before. Would you destroy existing stock of high cap magazines and how would you enforce the confiscation of existing high cap mags? This is what stymied this same attempt last time, ample supply of high cap mags that just increased in price, now everyone owns several in case it ever happens again.
6.weird character again
7. Define "limited". For .223/5.56 a box is 20 rounds.
8. Weird character again
9. But you're not 18 when you fulfill your service requirements. You'd be 22. Why not raise the age of eligibility to 21. Wouldn't that make more sense? Again, why is an 18 year old more mature because they agreed to join the military?

1. Doesn't do to me. Hurts the migrant family who wants self protection, or the poor folks in higher crime areas who want protection.
2. Unrealistic "stick it to them" solution destined to be laughed at when suggested to congress, assuming it ever made it past your own rep.
3. character again
4. & 5. There's a law against a federal firearm registry. 18 U.S. Code § 926
6. There's nothing dangerous about kevlar armor. Cops die every day while wearing it.

“The officers immediately advanced toward the gunfire and within approximately 20 seconds, they engaged the suspect, who was actively firing and attempting to enter a crowded liquor establishment,” the police chief said.

“The threat was neutralized at approximately 30 seconds of the suspect firing his first shot,” Biehl said.

Yeah that body armor... impossible to stop that guy.

Your suggestions are emotional drivel with almost zero realistic considerations and absolutely no understanding of current laws or of the firearms they cover. This is why your suggestions will be dismissed as just rantings.

[Winehole23]

At the end of the day, someone with a gun ended it.

At the end of the day, Border Patrol couldn't defeat a locked door until school staff brought a key and opened it for them. Other LE apparently didn't even try, but they did keep local good guys away from the scene.

[DMC]

what are carry laws in the US?
I know about open, concealed carry and that it varies state to state, but do they also limit how many guns and in what firing condition?
Here you can only carry one unloaded gun, and you have to register where your safes are, you cant have your unloaded gun in another city if you dont have a safe registered there (a friend got busted for this, just from having his gun loaded in his backpack during a motorcycle accident- fine and licence and weapon impounded for 2 years), which is probably too much to ask from the US, but just limiting the number of guns you can carry makes it easier for cops to enforce private sales. I wonder what enthusiasts prefer, ban private sales outright or put more limits on how you can carry?

I think the insurance angle has the most potential, but I think it might be better still as a tax that is used to fund mental health surveillance at schools and with gun owners, plus like a sort of VA for victims... and maybe its more important to tax the ammo than the guns themselves, people here hunt and Im not familiar enough to know what specific ammo they use but Im sure the ammo selection here is much more limited and less powerful, either by laws or market forces, that could also be an effective way to reduce the danger of these shootings. Of course, "enthusiasts" will hate these ideas but they work in other places. And you can still go to a range or on a safari and use your fancy stuff there..

Unloaded guns might as well be paper weights. They are worthless. The CHL does not restrict number of guns and you are not required to carry concealed. It is only required if you want to carry concealed while open carry doesn't require a CHL (in many states).

Second Amendment enthusiasts

[DMC]

at the end of the day, Texas lawmen couldn't defeat a locked door until school staff brought a key and opened it for them.

Sounds like a good door.

[DMC]

As if these kinds of murders only happen at schools and not also at church, movie theaters, Wal-Mart etc.

But let’s not kid ourselves, Ted isn’t looking for answers. He’s just trying to run out the clock…. to buy time for outrage to die down and for people to move on until the next senseless tragedy strikes.

All soft targets. If ever hit the fan IRL, many here would die in the 1st 30 minutes.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

All soft targets. If ever hit the fan IRL, many here would die in the 1st 30 minutes.

while the police wait outside for assistance, since they have no duty to protect.

[ElNono]

"This is where the left goes overbudget. They cannot possibly get support for this." Calling this "the left" is a copout. It's a perfectly rational request that has both real-life evidence and scientific proof behind it. Heck, people oftentimes go through an interview and (sometimes) background checks when they change jobs. Not even sure why this would be controversial at all. Now, if you're asking why would the american gun culture would see this as controversial, sure, but at some point we need to stop listening there, because they largely got us here.

"This is what I asked. What happens in 30 days that doesn't happen in 5 days? Does the ATF need more time to conduct a background check? I didn't say it was illegal or unenforceable. I said there needs to be a reason." What happens in 30 days that doesn't happen in 5 days is that a lot of mental episodes are impulsive. This is directly tied to mental health. That's a reason, but I'll still argue that technically you don't really need one. We make people wait a lot of times due to things as irrelevant as bureaucracy.

"Extensive training in killing more efficiently. They do not undergo LEO type training but even then it's not to have more respect for human lives. Basically if you're not mature enough to own a firearm you're not mature enough to carry one in war." Not just killing, as you know, you also get extensive training in chain of command, respect for superiors, discerning civilian from enemy, etc. If you're not mature enough for the military, you shouldn't be able to join them, and you know some people that sign up for it don't get accepted.

"Pricing an entire lower income segment out of their rights sounds like a real democrat ticket winner" Lower income segment doesn't generally stockpile an arsenal. They have other priorities. Plus this can be negotiatied. ie: 1 is cheap, 5 is expensive, etc.

"There's over 400m guns in circulation now, none but NFA weapons on a national registry. What's your solution for getting those 400m under a tracking system and how do you propose it gets enforced other than saying "It's the law"? Person A owns an unregistered firearm and sells to person B. Now person B owns an unregistered firearm. There's no record this sale took place, and no way to ever prosecute since there's no traceability of the firearm." Why would you need to do anything special about them? This isn't trying to track every weapon, it's trying to at least attempt to tackle the problem. Even if only 10% effective, that's 10% more effective than what we have now which is literally nothing.

"So there are too many mass shootings so the answer is to outlaw passive body protection to make killing people easier. Doesn't sound logical." Compared to the world in general, yes, there are way too many mass shootings in the US, and anything that can help put down these people more effectively once identified and save lives certainly does have merit.

red

(BTW, the honest conversation is appreciated, despite obvious disagreements)

[ElNono]

what are carry laws in the US?
I know about open, concealed carry and that it varies state to state, but do they also limit how many guns and in what firing condition?
Here you can only carry one unloaded gun, and you have to register where your safes are, you cant have your unloaded gun in another city if you dont have a safe registered there (a friend got busted for this, just from having his gun loaded in his backpack during a motorcycle accident- fine and licence and weapon impounded for 2 years), which is probably too much to ask from the US, but just limiting the number of guns you can carry makes it easier for cops to enforce private sales. I wonder what enthusiasts prefer, ban private sales outright or put more limits on how you can carry?

I think the insurance angle has the most potential, but I think it might be better still as a tax that is used to fund mental health surveillance at schools and with gun owners, plus like a sort of VA for victims... and maybe its more important to tax the ammo than the guns themselves, people here hunt and Im not familiar enough to know what specific ammo they use but Im sure the ammo selection here is much more limited and less powerful, either by laws or market forces, that could also be an effective way to reduce the danger of these shootings. Of course, "enthusiasts" will hate these ideas but they work in other places. And you can still go to a range or on a safari and use your fancy stuff there..

You just want to ruin the fun of shredding a squirrel with a AR-15... would somebody think of the hunters, please?

[Winehole23]

30-40 minutes, some say, but still.

what pussios.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

Apparently Uvalde SWAT waited for BORTAC to do their job for them, or couldn't muster quickly enough to do any good.

Federal government good now, I guess.

[ducks]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Hg&oe=62B3CEFA