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  1. #426
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Those masterful mindgames from Lebron were noticeably absent in 2011 and 2014.

    Imagine thinking lebron has ever had any sort of upper hand mentally over his opponents

  2. #427
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    He completely destroyed Toronto.

    Yes, that fearsome Toronto team led by Demar Depression. Please tell me we have a better example than that

  3. #428
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    Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.

    You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this. It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.

    id say trolling draymond into doing something that would draw a needless technical, when he was knowingly one away from getting suspended was a pretty pivotal moment

    and steph wasn't really considered a "beta" by many the way he is now perceived, until after that series. theres no question that lebron taking him on more frequently on individual defensive assignments, as well as giving him extra defensive attention as a help defender clearly affected steph

    so yes, i think its fair to give lebron some credit for overcoming a team that overmatched his team by being mentally stronger than them, and inspiring his teammates (many of whom had reputations of being mentally weak at that time, such as kyrie, love, jr)

    also lets not act like alonzo was some alpha or anything either, dude was the very definition of a beta, regardless of what rodman did to him.

  4. #429
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    Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.

    You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this. It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.
    I would say in the playoffs that's not always the case. Jordan was clearly the best player when he played against the Pistons from '88-'90 but the bulls kept on losing due to the supporting cast not being good enough. Duncan was the best player against the Lakers in '02 but the Spurs still couldn't win in that series due to lack of depth and talent. I would say Dirk was the best player in the '06 finals but choked away that series. Wade had a great series but I thought Dirk was the better player.

  5. #430
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    Sure, but I am talking specifically about Final's teams because I think if your team was good enough to make it to the finals, you must have had A.) Adequate talent and B.) Good enough chemistry to win it all.

    Dirk was the best player in that 2006 series. He was not mentally strong enough at that time to overcome the ref's heavy bias. That loss falls on him. Kobe was the best player in the 2004 Finals and that loss falls on his shoulders.

    As you say, it's not always the case. Generally speaking, though, many just expect the team with the best player to win basketball final's series. Finals games are often close and that is where superstars take over... and the preferential treatment that they get from the refs doesn't hurt..

    I would say in the playoffs that's not always the case. Jordan was clearly the best player when he played against the Pistons from '88-'90 but the bulls kept on losing due to the supporting cast not being good enough. Duncan was the best player against the Lakers in '02 but the Spurs still couldn't win in that series due to lack of depth and talent. I would say Dirk was the best player in the '06 finals but choked away that series. Wade had a great series but I thought Dirk was the better player.

  6. #431
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    He completely destroyed Toronto.
    That Toronto team was better than any team Jordan faced in the East during the 90s tbh

  7. #432
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    Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.
    interesting, considering you and others claim that players today are so mentally weak and soft, yet we don't see them getting mindscrewed at a high level of frequency as players in the 90s did. perhaps the 90s players were actually the ones who were more mentally weak and soft considering they frequently let blatant and obvious trolling get under their skin so badly that they were rendered incapable of playing good basketball, in addition to being incapable of playing under high pressure situations.

    You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this.
    a team with the best player in the world winning 57 games compared to a team without the best player in the world winning 73 games shows theres a pretty huge disparity of talent, coaching, and other factors between the two teams regardless of lebrons presence

    It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.
    interesting. ive literally never heard that argument except by people who dont know crap about basketball.

  8. #433
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    Yes, that fearsome Toronto team led by Demar Depression. Please tell me we have a better example than that
    about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.

  9. #434
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.
    90s Knicks
    lol Ewing + grocery bagger Stark + scrubs

  10. #435
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    90s Knicks
    lol Ewing + grocery bagger Stark + scrubs
    Exactly

  11. #436
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    Let's take a look at Jordan's mentally tough compe ion: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/th...tter-than-him/
    Most of these mental midgets were defeated even before the first game. Barkley was defeated mentally after the second game . And they say that 93 Suns were the best team Jordan faced in the Finals. Do I even need to tell about original "Trash Bros" Stockton and Malone. What a mental giants!

    Meanwhile LeBron bullied 73 win team to the point that their star player Draymond Green was crying in parking lot and called second or third best player in the World and begged him to join their team.

  12. #437
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    Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though

    Derozan Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them.

    about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.
    Last edited by Dirks_Finale; 07-27-2020 at 05:51 PM.

  13. #438
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    interesting, considering you and others claim that players today are so mentally weak and soft, yet we don't see them getting mindscrewed at a high level of frequency as players in the 90s did. perhaps the 90s players were actually the ones who were more mentally weak and soft considering they frequently let blatant and obvious trolling get under their skin so badly that they were rendered incapable of playing good basketball, in addition to being incapable of playing under high pressure situations.
    .
    No, it's because today's game simply lacks the Rodman-esque type agigtators. And that is probably also due to the fact that they have to look at 57 angles of the replay everytime someone trips over their own shoe laces. So I do understand why any would be agigators in today's game would refrain from doing so. They don't want the refs to put us all to sleep with their usual overreaction on the slightest bit of contact.

  14. #439
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    He didn't help David do in that series.
    Rodman didn’t respect betas

  15. #440
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    Step one to saying it’s your last response and claim victory.

  16. #441
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    Rodman didn’t respect betas
    Well, he did need to be taught how to obey similar to a dog, so you might be onto something. He liked to be dominated like a , basically.

  17. #442
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    Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though

    Derozan Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them.
    They didn’t but they were still a better team
    Pre-Kawhi Raps would have obliterated those Knicks tbh...

  18. #443
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    Wrong!

    They didn’t but they were still a better team
    Pre-Kawhi Raps would have obliterated those Knicks tbh...

  19. #444
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    Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though
    Ewing > Lowry/Derozan

    Lowry/Derozan >>>>>>>>>> Starks

    the quality of the star wasnt the debate. point is, both teams star players were known for choking. and if we really want to analyze, one could make a good argument that aside from the choking nature of derozan, toronto had a very well built team, arguably more complete of a team than NY was, despite not quite having as big a star as ewing

    Derozan Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them.
    hes a very solid basketball player with some limitations that hurts his teams chances at elite success, much like ewing.

    No, it's because today's game simply lacks the Rodman-esque type agigtators.
    beverley? dray?

    lets not act like the 90s were just littered with rodmans on every team

    the league has no agitators because of instant replay, the whole league is soft and its all the players fault!

  20. #445
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody ting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

    A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.

  21. #446
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody ting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

    A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.
    The fact that he was the 2nd best player on that Knicks really shows that roster was trash tbh
    I still have a lot of respect for him, he worked his off and had a big heart
    Not his fault if he was smaller than Jordan and not very talented, it would be like Kevin Hart being matched up against LeBron tbh

    The problem with the 90s fanboys is they will tell you that era was better than today just because.

    So by that logic , the 50s were better than the 90s?

  22. #447
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    The game is played with less edge today. You can see it as well, you just don't want to admit it

    I'll give you bev, he is a throwback player.

    Ewing > Lowry/Derozan

    Lowry/Derozan >>>>>>>>>> Starks

    the quality of the star wasnt the debate. point is, both teams star players were known for choking. and if we really want to analyze, one could make a good argument that aside from the choking nature of derozan, toronto had a very well built team, arguably more complete of a team than NY was, despite not quite having as big a star as ewing



    hes a very solid basketball player with some limitations that hurts his teams chances at elite success, much like ewing.



    beverley? dray?

    lets not act like the 90s were just littered with rodmans on every team

  23. #448
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    I think some of you underrate the rest of the Knicks. Starks was the 2nd best player, but not always and sometimes not by much. Anthony Mason could give you 16-10-5 with solid defense, fairly consistently if his head was screwed on right. In today's game he's probably around 18-20 ppg as there are more possessions. Same could be said for someone like Xavier McDaniel. The Knicks were built similarly to Dirk's Mavs with a by-committee collection of good, but not great players around a star player.

    In 96/97 they had Allan Houston and Larry Johnson who were no slouches.

    Demar's Raptors were not taken seriously by anyone outside of Drake.

  24. #449
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    And in 20 years they will be saying the same crap about today's IG models That's just how it goes.

    Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody ting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

    A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.

  25. #450
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    The game is played with less edge today. You can see it as well, you just don't want to admit it
    actually ive said many times that the game isnt as reliant on physicality and bully tactics. you just dont want to read.

    i simply disagreed that the mindgames are lacking in the modern nba. they are played very much still. less? perhaps, i wouldn't argue that. but to a point that the game lacks it? i dont agree.

    I'll give you bev, he is a throwback player.
    actually, hes a modern player. quit applying commonly used tactics as if its something only existent in the past. otherwise we might as well say that every aspect of basketball is "throwback" since its basically all been in existence for 40+ years.

    I think some of you underrate the rest of the Knicks. Starks was the 2nd best player, but not always and sometimes not by much. Anthony Mason could give you 16-10-5 with solid defense, fairly consistently if his head was screwed on right. In today's game he's probably around 18-20 ppg as there are more possessions. Same could be said for someone like Xavier McDaniel. The Knicks were built similarly to Dirk's Mavs with a by-committee collection of good, but not great players around a star player.

    In 96/97 they had Allan Houston and Larry Johnson who were no slouches.

    Demar's Raptors were not taken seriously by anyone outside of Drake.
    no one said the knicks werent a good team. just that toronto isnt nearly as bad as you suggest. for years they have been very similar to what you just described the knicks as being, in terms of a collection of good but not great players, surrounding a star (in torontos case, it was two stars that weren't quite on the level of ewing, but still a very good 1-2 punch combo). obviously they must have had a pretty good team considering they won a championship pretty much by replacing derozan with kawhi.

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