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I've tried...I just don't see the logic in your position regarding Poeltl.
Poodle is 25, mobile, and know the system. He has value especially at 9mil per.
I've tried...I just don't see the logic in your position regarding Poeltl.
It is not about replacing him it is while Spurs vaunted FO comes up small and does nothing in FA or trade of any significance one has to wonder how many years of abject mediocrity are ahead for Spurs. Poeltl is an ok player who fits a culture striving to be just ok it seems.
. That being said under a formerly all time great coach who was not so very over the hill - he might be better. Just cannot get excited he is not being moved somehow along with others to bring some real change.
That's a different subject though.... I totally get criticism of the FO for being inactive (or not proactive enough). I just don't understand using space on a guy you can get back + an asset if you need it next summer.
So with the more bigs going to the LA teams does that compel GS to try and get LMA?
They are trying to win. They aren't trying to win a le. If the Spurs were actually not trying to win anything at all, they would've traded their vets just out of respect. There's way more nuance to the goals a team like SA has than you seem willing to allow. They want to develop their young players by giving them a structure of vets trying to win games while the young players come up as role-players. You can certainly disagree with that approach, but the Spurs are pretty clearly operating within that framework, which is why expecting them to sign vet wings didn't make sense and why they felt the need to keep their younger center to be part of the transition.
This is it. This is the post. Take a photo. Put it on a placard. Tattoo it on your arm, face, ass. This guy gets it. This is how the Spurs are operating.
I most certainly hope so.
i hope so too. I think now G would also have to be doing well in order for them to think about it. If GS is doing well but getting killed inside I think it helps our team for the trade,
I think GSW would rather throw James Wiseman into the fire.
I think you are simply taking what they did and trying to retrofit a “strategy” that makes sense vs seeing what I’ve been saying and now others like Timvp that what they are doing is directionless and largely non sensical on many levels.
Not disastrous as you’ve mentioned and I agree with for many reasons, but largely devoid of any real strategy or direction.
There is no way you can say with a straight face that this team that has been going backwards is “trying to win” when the only new players that Pop has to choose from compared to last year are pick 11 & 41 in a weaker draft.
That’s not trying to win. Doing nothing to change the teams short term outlook at all other than drafting and relying on internal development (which every single team does) and only adding 2 rookies to a team that just missed the playoffs is trying to win?
Not even a le don’t know what that’s brought up. I’m talking about 8th. They didn’t get it and yet we claim they’re trying to win that level and Pop has only 2 rookies to choose from vs what he had last year when they missed.
This is not even factoring in what other teams have done either which only make the claims of trying to win worse; even by your definition (which is obvious / even when I say win I thought it was assumed everyone knew I didn’t mean les)
And one of our fundamental disagreements is the trade. They want to stay in neutral, not really truly push for 8th. That’s why they won’t trade vets. They are so paralyzed that they won’t harm themselves at all unless a trade is overwhelming in their favor (it won’t be with the vets they choose to build around). Has nothing to do with respect. It has to do with zero real vision, honesty about this team and being stuck as a FO in limbo
Last edited by DPG21920; 11-23-2020 at 01:45 AM.
That's ing depressing. I'd take Baynes any day of the week over Poetl.not happy about the frontcourt though.
raptors got baynes for less than the spurs got jakob
No. I think what you and a lot of other fans are doing is letting your emotions cloud your memory. This is what timvp said at the time:
https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-free...des-first-day/
The idea that all of the sudden it's a two-year window with expiring vets is false. It was predictable that it would be this way.What mattered was the fact that it was only a two-year contract. That keeps Gay on the same timeline with LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan, while keeping open the possibility of a massive windfall of cap space in the summer of 2021.
Yes, I can. I really think you're turtling at this point. They weren't going to sign guys to multi-year deals to win, because they basically don't have a path toward a le. They would just give up cap space for nothing. But the alternative to being a contender is not tearing it down and rebuilding.There is no way you can say with a straight face that this team that has been going backwards is “trying to win” when the only new players that Pop has to choose from compared to last year are pick 11 & 41 in a weaker draft.
Yes. Last year, they were more willing to sign guys to two-year deals, since they had two years left to do it. That's what happened with Morris and Carroll. This year, they don't have the same flexibility to sign guys to one-year deals due to the cap staying flat, and even if they did, they weren't going to sign guys like Beli or Forbes when they have young players. It's really obvious that you're being biased when the same thing you think will make other teams better than the Spurs -- the development of their young players -- is just completely dismissed for SA to fit the argument. Memphis having guys like Ja and JJJ take the next step is inevitable and fine, and boy why can't the Spurs do that. But then the Spurs are hoping for the same thing and it's, "That's dumb, they shoulda signed Torrey Craig instead."That’s not trying to win. Doing nothing to change the teams short term outlook at all other than drafting and relying on internal development (which every single team does) and only adding 2 rookies to a team that just missed the playoffs is trying to win?
Just no.
Making the playoffs isn't more important than developing their players or even keeping a good amount of cap space open for next summer. "Winning" doesn't mean that they have to hit a certain seed or victory total. It means they are going out there with a mentality of using their best talent and letting their young players come up around the talent instead of moving that talent and having the players try to expand their games into roles they might not be comfortable with. Vassell solidifying himself as a three-and-D player is more helpful to his long-term development than him flailing around with the ball trying to be the lead guy on a team that has no better talent. Same thing with Johnson and Walker. They got way too excited with Murray and tried to short-cut his development by having him focus on off-dribble pull-ups. Murray's impact has degraded to the point where he's a questionable rotation player.And one of our fundamental disagreements is the trade. They want to stay in neutral, not really truly push for 8th. That’s why they won’t trade vets. They are so paralyzed that they won’t harm themselves at all unless a trade is overwhelming in their favor (it won’t be with the vets they choose to build around). Has nothing to do with respect. It has to do with zero real vision, honesty about this team and being stuck as a FO in limbo
They can't let that happen with Johnson or the others. That seems inconceivable to many Spurs fans. But as promising as he and some of the young guys are, they aren't more talented than the sea of players from perennially bad teams that get huge roles and flame out or at best become extremely flawed and unbalanced minor stars. Constantly churning out those players is how you become a permabad team, and it's why it doesn't make sense to assume some of those teams with "better futures" really will pass the Spurs. A sizeable number of those guys will bust out. Another bit will be okay and get overpaid. The rest will be good and earn their money but then ask out because they don't want to be in that cesspool anymore.
Agree with Chinook. The best way to develop young players is by 1. being compe ive, instead of having 15-win seasons like Philly did and 2. by playing them in the correct roles for their development level. A bigger role could damage a player's development just as badly as a smaller one would.
And the worst position you could get to is paying a number of underdevelopped players more than their worth only because you've drafted them and they haven't been busts. Then you end up with a roster having the likes of Buddy Hield or Otto Porter who don't really impact your winning but take up cap space equal to what legit stars would. This is also why having a million picks is tricky - you have to hit jackpot with one, just one, like Dallas, and you're better off than having a million middling picks. This is another discussion entirely though.
Raptors playing chess while Spurs playing comic checkers per usual last few years.
We'll probably see that with OKC soon. Ainge was lucky that Brooklyn bottomed out early, so he had the high draft picks to get good (though overrated) players. Most of the rest of the picks he had have been busts. That's actually not the worst thing for them, because it let the Celtics cut those players rather than overpay them. But he's still at the point of pissing away picks every year because his team can't use them. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if he were in that situation but had Fox and Hield instead of Brown and Tatum.
Presti needs to trade up using those picks before they actually convey and still have the luster of the unknown. A team might drop down 12 spots in a draft for "two future firsts", but they won't if those picks are 26 and 30 in the same draft.
If what you’re saying is true then I’m even more convinced Poeltl was a mistake. Can’t have it both ways here imo. They weren’t willing to change the team at all because of some insanely strict 2 year plan but are willing to punt 9M in cap space for a back up Center?? That makes absolutely zero sense in the framework of what you’re pitching.
Beyond that, not trading ANY of the vets for future capital makes no sense either. If payoffs aren’t really a goal as you mentioned you can absolutely trade at least one of the vets and still have functioned in the parameters you outlined.
No matter how you slice it with what you’ve outlined it’s non sensical in both angles at best and a signal this front office is bottom tier with regard to doing anything creative/team building at worst.
Dpg, you're an old man stuck in your thinking.
9M is near market value for a center of Poetl's caliber.
As Chinook said, this year we are now on a 1 year plan and last year was a 2 year plan. You can't trade the vets for anything unless it's for picks and the only player I see anyone trading picks for are DeMar and Aldridge and even then, that seems VERY unlikely unless we are taking back salary which will up the 1 year plan.
It's not hard to understand.
It’s hard to understand if you’re being short sighted; the spurs live by the mantra of pounding the rock. We’ll be a middling to good team doing it the current way vs being hot trash in a fire sale!
imagine calling someone like me old man when what I’m suggesting is more creative and modern vs doing nothing and being set in old ways.
Makes absolutely zero sense. I’m obviously in a minority with people like Timvp - that’s fine. We’ve established that at a minimum Chinook and I FULLY understand the others actual positions with little confusion
We simply do not agree that 1) each other’s strategy is correct or right move and 2)what it signals about the confidence in the FO moving forward.
We also agree that no matter who is “right” nothing SA has done is catastrophic and that overall they are in a ok position
A fire sale? What? LMA and ddr are gone after this season. What are you on about?
Dario Saric is staying with the Phoenix Suns
We needed that bruiser. Is Tyler Zeller still available? He actually played well in his short stint.
Spurs are always ahead of the game.
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